Picking up our 21BHS!

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/1166/thread" timestamp="1400797461" author="@fasteddieb"]I think we may have solved the wiring issue.

Matt at Southland RV undertook, on his own, to do more troubleshooting. Says he likes a challenge!

As best as I understand it, the ground and neutral got "bonded" there. It happened because air conditioners are often mounted onto wood and/or rubber, so that keeping the frame isolated from ground is not an issue, so the neutral grounding at that point is also not an issue*. 

In the case of my trailer, the neutral was connected somehow to the frame of the air conditioner, and at least one of the mounting screws for the air conditioner attached to the aluminum trailer frame, making the connection.

In any case, rather than isolate the frame of the air conditioner, he says he "rewired" the air conditioner and it will run fine and I no longer show a short between ground and neutral. So, hopefully...

I really hope Don at LivinLite all step up and reimburse Southland for their time troubleshooting this. Its not a good thing if they even give the impression of trying to weasel out of legitimate issues.

[/quote][font size="3"][font face="arial"]This sounds like good news, but us techies would like to better understand the problem in the A/C. If you're close to correct the chassis of the A/C was connected to the neutral. Isolating the A/C from the trailer frame would have left the A/C [/font][font face="arial"]frame without a safety ground and subject to the dangers previously discussed. I'd rather believe the A/C itself had a fault or miswire that Matt found and corrected. Hats off to Matt. You owe him a six pack of his choice. I hope Don pays attention, reimburses Southland, and follows the problem to its source at the factory or Dometic shop. Anyway we're glad you stuck with it and forced the resolution.
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[fasteddieb]

I will have Matt sketch out schematics of before/after wiring to the A/C, which would in any case help if there are problems down the road.

And Karen and I are both not thrilled with LivinLite's responsiveness.

This was emailed to Don on May 22:

Don,

I've been informed that a new storage door for my 21BHS was ordered on 5/8, and is going to ship soon.

Since I've been without use of my trailer since 5/2, I would really like for you to expedite the shipping so my wife and I can go camping.

In addition, there is now no doubt that my trailer has a wiring problem. The way it is wired is contrary to RVIA standards, and Thor is a member of RVIA. I really need to get it resolved, and I'm sure Thor does not want the liability of a known issue causing possible shock hazard down the road.

Please do whatever you need to to get us back on the road with a properly wired trailer.

Thanks,

Ed Benson

Of note: No response. None. Still don't know when we may be able to pick up and use our trailer, in the shop since May 2.

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/1220/thread" timestamp="1401190198" author="@fasteddieb"]I will have Matt sketch out schematics of before/after wiring to the A/C, which would in any case help if there are problems down the road.

Of note: No response. None. Still don't know when we may be able to pick up and use our trailer, in the shop since May 2.[/quote][font size="3"][font face="arial"]Ed,

I'm very interested in what Matt is able to find and show you. I'm particularly interested in understanding if the error was something Dometic did inside the A/C or LL did in connecting it. Ask Matt to clearly indicate where the cross connection occurred physically. LL has done so much right on this trailer that I want to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Either way there is no excuse for their lack of response and action. It defies common sense and logic for safety and marketing reasons, but unfortunately it seems commonplace in this industry.
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[fasteddieb]

Karen got really impatient and called Don herself.

Turns out the doors are not available and will not be for a while.

Not a huge deal - the existing door works, though its a struggle.

The bigger deal is when were they going to tell us?

In any case, we plan on picking up the trailer tomorrow. Maybe we'll see if Don can ship it to us and we can get it installed locally if they'll cover the cost - the 160 mile round trip to Buford is an expensive hassle.

[farmboy]

Sorry to hear of your problems;  I hope things get resolved quickly and to your satisfaction.  As a potential LivinLite customer, I have been disappointed with a lack of any response to either of my short messages sent to the company via the "Contact"  area of their web site.    Hopefully, they will eventually contact me.  Both my wife and I have really liked the ones we have seen, but the lack of response is troubling.  

[tinkeringtechie]

I wish they would start participating here in the forums as well. Currently this post has received over 1,600 views and that number is only growing. If they at least talked openly about the issues mentioned I think it would help Eddie and future buyers. The "ask the factory" section only has one actual response from LL that I'm aware of.

[djsamuel]

[quote source="/post/1235/thread" timestamp="1401231872" author="@tinkeringtechie"]I wish they would start participating here in the forums as well. Currently this post has received over 1,600 views and that number is only growing. If they at least talked openly about the issues mentioned I think it would help Eddie and future buyers. The "ask the factory" section only has one actual response from LL that I'm aware of.[/quote]And his last post was March 19th, and he was last online May 19th.

I too wish there was more participation.  They requested the Ask the Factory section.  Scott Tuttle is more active on the Yahoo Groups page.  I would hope someone would be here though.

[fasteddieb]

I'll be asking Matt to sketch out the issue on this rough schematic I came up with:






Am I on the right track?

[fasteddieb]

We pickup up "Campy" yesterday.

I really should have video'd Matt's explanation, but didn't. I'll do my best to keep this straight.

He showed me a similar roof AC. Showed me where the neutral comes it, attaching to a capacitor, then running to the motor and the compressor. From the motor another lead runs to a ground on the AC frame.

Matt says with a wood or rubber roof, this is never an issue. On a CampLite, care must be taken not to have the frame of the AC contacting either the aluminum roof or underlying structure. In our case a mounting screw was contacting an aluminum structural member, completing the ground/neutral loop. The solution was to move the AC mount slightly to make sure it wasn't grounding.

In any case, I did have Matt confirm essentially infinite resistance between the neutral and ground lugs with a meter.

Later today I will try to run an extension cord from the pump house to our new "Campy Pad" down by our roadside pond, and see if the GFCI still trips. Hoping it doesn't.

Photos of our new "Campy Pad" to follow.

[fasteddieb]

New parking spot (work in progress):
















Right now we have well water to the site, and are considering 30A service if it can be done for a reasonable price.

[charliem]

[font size="3"][font face="arial"]First, that's a beautiful setting for your camper "storage". Really nice with all the comforts of home within a few walking steps. Just add a small septic system and you'll be ready for guests. Nice!

If I understand your discussion with Matt he removed the physical connection between the camper structure and the A/C chassis. If that's true I'd ask two questions. Doesn't that leave the A/C chassis ungrounded and floating and thereby potentially hot? Second is what's holding the A/C to the roof? I can't imagine something as heavy and bulky as the A/C not mounted to the roof aluminum structure. Perhaps some non-metallic portion of the A/C chassis is bolted to the camper roof structure? I still don't understand.
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[tinkeringtechie]

I'm not buying their explanation either. The A/C chassis should be grounded and the neutral should never come anywhere close to it. If it's bonded somewhere other than the junction box then it seems like Dometic may be responsible.

[fasteddieb]

I think Matt said he's monitoring this thread, so maybe he'll chime in. I'll email him and ask him to, maybe with pictures of the unit's wiring he showed me (not mine).

In any case, I plugged into the GFCI outlet and the GFCI did not trip and I have power to the trailer.

Yay!

Question: I'm using a 100 ft extension cord. It's not marked, but seems to be about the same diameter as a shorter one I have marked 13A. 15A ones at Home Depot seem to run $70 to $85.

If we want to run the air conditioning, is it worthwhile to invest in a heavier duty extension cord for now? This may just be until we investigate running some underground Romex and installing a proper 30A outlet by the trailer.

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/1254/thread" timestamp="1401383219" author="@fasteddieb"]Question: I'm using a 100 ft extension cord. It's not marked, but seems to be about the same diameter as a shorter one I have marked 13A. 15A ones at Home Depot seem to run $70 to $85.

If we want to run the air conditioning, is it worthwhile to invest in a heavier duty extension cord for now? This may just be until we investigate running some underground Romex and installing a proper 30A outlet by the trailer.[/quote]Glad to hear it's working again. You may be able to run the A/C on a 15 amp circuit if nothing else is on in the trailer, 13 amp definitely won't do. Personally I wouldn't run it on anything less than a 20 amp circuit. I'd be worried about voltage drop with anything less. The A/C is on a 20 amp breaker, and probably for good reason.

[shovelhead]

Not to hijack the thread but somewhat related.  If I run my 21RBS on a heavy duty (~20A) 50 Ft extension cord my fridge pukes.  The fridge error codes "E0" and wont reset.  I have to manually remove power from the control board and have "good" shore power.          E0 to me sounds like a brownout condition detected. It would be nice to have an external reset button. I guess that will be on my mod list.