Picking up our 21BHS!

[fasteddieb]

[quote source="/post/560/thread" timestamp="1397606128" author="@tinkeringtechie"][quote source="/post/559/thread" timestamp="1397604865" author="@fasteddieb"]Don at Livin' Lite said it was normal for their trailers not to be able to use GFCI outlets. I referred him to this thread.[/quote]That's a bit worrisome...
[span style="font-size:10pt;"] Before you do that make sure that it isn't a device that you added inside.[/span]
[/quote]The only things I've added are a Lighting cable plugged into the radio USB port for charging iDevices, and a 12v splitter plugged into the TV outlet and with a voltmeter plugged into that. Other than that, completely stock. Did not think of those causing an issue.

[tinkeringtechie]

Those sound pretty innocent to me... especially since none of them are 120V

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/560/thread" timestamp="1397606128" author="@tinkeringtechie"][quote source="/post/559/thread" timestamp="1397604865" author="@fasteddieb"]Don at Livin' Lite said it was normal for their trailers not to be able to use GFCI outlets. I referred him to this thread.[/quote]That's a bit worrisome.

I had a realization though... breakers only disconnect circuits from the hot side, the neutral always stays connected. So your neutral/ground fault is not necessarily between the panel and the exterior outlet. It could be a device or outlet in the trailer. If you decide to tackle this yourself, you'd need to disconnect each neutral circuit and test them individually. Before you do that make sure that it isn't a device that you added inside.[/quote][font size="3"][font face="arial"]I agree the N to G short could be an appliance even with the breakers open, but why would a GFCI trip when there was no current flowing in the hot line? The GFCI trips when all current flowing in the hot side does not return on the neutral. With the breakers open no current can flow in the hot side and no current should return on the neutral. And I agree Don's answer about the GFCI outlets doesn't make sense and is not good.

Fasteddieb: The sticker on your trailer confirms the GVWR and GAWR values, but not the trailer empty weight. Most other trailers show their exact weight as they leave the factory.
[/font][/font]

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/563/thread" timestamp="1397612428" author="@charliem"][font size="3"][font face="arial"]I agree the N to G short could be an appliance even with the breakers open, but why would a GFCI trip when there was no current flowing in the hot line? The GFCI trips when all current flowing in the hot side does not return on the neutral. With the breakers open no current can flow in the hot side and no current should return on the neutral.
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This is only a guess, but depending on the length of the run, the neutral side can actually have non-zero voltage. It's grounded at the utility side, so if it's fairly far from there and it has other nearby loads (like the pump house) the neutral can have a small voltage. That may be enough to leak to ground through the trailer and trip the GFCI. Just a theory, but it could be tested with a multimeter as well.

[fasteddieb]

I unplugged my two 12v items, and it made no difference on the ground faulting at the hangar.

I then fired up the Honda generator and used it for shore power.

I wanted to test the outlets in the trailer.

Does this normal indication tell us anything?


[img src="https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2916/13904341135_61b0be6ab0.jpg"]

Oh, and in with the spare keys for my trailer was this:


[img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3718/13904753224_967c2116de.jpg"]

Anybody know what those little black things are?

[tinkeringtechie]

Unfortunately that tester doesn't have a case for your situation. A neutral/ground fault is nearly impossible to test for once the circuit is live.

I don't have a clue about the little black things... Some kind of bumper or riser? I'm picking up my 21BHS on Friday, so if I also have them I'll ask the tech.

[fasteddieb]

Thanks again.

I'm guessing the little black things have something to do with the TV - there was also a bubble-packed stand for it.

Love to hear how your delivery goes. Take lots of pictures! I'll be very curious as to how your new rig handles GFCI's!

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/570/thread" timestamp="1397691771" author="@tinkeringtechie"]Unfortunately that tester doesn't have a case for your situation. A neutral/ground fault is nearly impossible to test for once the circuit is live.

I don't have a clue about the little black things... Some kind of bumper or riser? I'm picking up my 21BHS on Friday, so if I also have them I'll ask the tech.[/quote][font size="3"][font face="arial"]I agree re the tester. I had the thought last night[/font][/font] [font size="3"][font face="arial"]there is one more thing you can do if you just can't wait for the factory guys. First, did you get the 120V option on the water heater? If not the only appliances connected to the 120V system are the micro, the fridge, and te power converter. The micro and fridge are  plug-in connections. The fridge is the easiest to disconnect: just open the lower vent outside, find the black plug, and pull it. You will have to remove the microwave from its cabinet and pull the plug behind. Then recheck the H to N with an ohmmeter and all breakers off. [/font][/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"] [/font]If the short still exists the only possibilities are a miswire or a faulty converter. [/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"]If you did get the AC/GAS water heater it is hardwired and you might as well pull the power converter to see what's behind it.[/font][/font]

[font size="3"][font face="arial"]But if you can wait a while, Tinkeringtechie is developing a microprocessor controller[/font] that you just set on the bed and it will diagnose any problem and fix it with a push of a button    [/font]

[font size="3"]On the little black things I don't recall if I got them or not. They could be left over from the radio or micro installation such as feet.[/font]

[fasteddieb]

I think my water heater is propane only.

I can try to unplug some of the other stuff and report back.

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/571/thread" timestamp="1397692497" author="@fasteddieb"]Love to hear how your delivery goes. Take lots of pictures! I'll be very curious as to how your new rig handles GFCI's![/quote]Will do. I haven't had such great luck with this dealer so far, so I'll be crossing my fingers that delivery goes well. I'll be staying one night on the way home in the new rig to put it through its paces and will report back any issues that might come up.

All of my garage and exterior outlets are on a GFCI, so I'll have no choice but to find out.

[fasteddieb]

Can anyone point me to where the 12v converter is?

I'm sure I could trace wiring back to it, but it would help me out as far as seeing if that's the issue.

[charliem]

[font size="3"][font face="arial"]The power converter is a module housed in the power panel which should be a Progressive Dynamics model 4045KA. The panel is the brown box that contains the circuit breakers.

 http://www.progressivedyn.com/pdfs/110145%20English%20Only.pdf

The link will give you the installation/user instructions and some drawings. However, if you've tried unplugging the fridge and micro and the N-G short still exists you need a qualified expert to go further.  And you're under warranty. I think it's time to get back with LL and arrange to have the trailer looked at. You're close to Atlanta and Chattanooga so there must be places available. 
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[fasteddieb]

Thanks.

Curious to see if tinkeringtechie's does the same thing.

If so, maybe they DO all do that.

If not, then I have an isolated issue to address.

[djsamuel]

[quote source="/post/579/thread" timestamp="1397786539" author="@fasteddieb"]Can anyone point me to where the 12v converter is?

I'm sure I could trace wiring back to it, but it would help me out as far as seeing if that's the issue.[/quote]It is below the refrigerator, to the left of the heater.

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/581/thread" timestamp="1397791757" author="@fasteddieb"]Thanks.

Curious to see if tinkeringtechie's does the same thing.

If so, maybe they DO all do that.

If not, then I have an isolated issue to address.[/quote]I just tested mine with a multimeter and it matches Charlie's findings: ground is only connected to the frame.