Picking up our 21BHS!

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/540/thread" timestamp="1397568749" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Tinkeringtechie (Travis) noted that some leakage to ground would trip the GFCI, but would still work in campground hook ups. That's correct, but I sure would want to know what's causing the problem. Could lead to other personnel safety, fire, or future equipment failure issues.
[/font][/quote]I should have also mentioned that although it's not dangerous under normal conditions, connecting it to a mis-wired pedestal (hot switched with neutral) could cause the frame to be hot...   So definitely something you want to fix, and in the meantime make sure to test everything you connect it to.

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/543/thread" timestamp="1397573648" author="@tinkeringtechie"][quote source="/post/540/thread" timestamp="1397568749" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Tinkeringtechie (Travis) noted that some leakage to ground would trip the GFCI, but would still work in campground hook ups. That's correct, but I sure would want to know what's causing the problem. Could lead to other personnel safety, fire, or future equipment failure issues.
[/font][/quote]I should have also mentioned that although it's not dangerous under normal conditions, connecting it to a mis-wired pedestal (hot switched with neutral) could cause the frame to be hot...   So definitely something you want to fix, and in the meantime make sure to test everything you connect it to.[/quote][font size="3"][font face="arial"]Yeah, Bro. Bad karma on that one  [/font][/font]

[fasteddieb]

See what you think:

[a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKj-RW5Zm24"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKj-RW5Zm24[/a]

[tinkeringtechie]

Looks like ground and neutral are connected somewhere before the breakers. Once you flip on the breakers, hot and neutral are effectively connected (as a load) so they all appear connected. I'd pull the converter and do the same test on the back with the external connection removed.

***DISCLAIMER*** only do this if you're a qualified electrician.

***REALITY*** go ahead with caution, but leave it disconnected from shore power and don't change anything that you're not absolutely sure about.

[tinkeringtechie]

 Oh, and take pictures   I want to see what it looks like behind there.

[charliem]

[font size="3"][font face="arial"]I agree with Tinkeringtechie. That explains the symptoms and does need to be fixed. It could be as simple as the ground and neutral are mis-wired to a common bus, but it needs to be fixed. The connection between hot and neutral with breakers on ca[/font][/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"]n[/font][/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"] be due to the microwave electronics, the fridge electronics, or the water heater if it's electric and switched on. Let us know.

And my complements to Fasteddieb on his picture and video prowess. He's got that down pat.
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[fasteddieb]

Thanks, guys!

Big thing to remember is that I'm still under warranty. I think the best thing to do is to inform Livin'Lite and see how they want to handle it.

I called them last week, but their main guy was out until today. I'll try again and let you know what they say.

[tinkeringtechie]

That's probably the safest course of action. My curiosity would get the better of me... and you know what they say about curiosity and cats  x_x

[fasteddieb]

Here's another bit of weirdness...

...on the Livin'Lite site they list the 21BHS as 3,499 Dry Weight, and GVWR of 5,000 lbs., leaving a Load Capacity of 1,501 lbs. All makes sense.

The Certificate Of Origin I just received shows 3,350 Shipping Weight and 7,000 lb. GVWR.

Calling the dealer in IL was not of much help. He said the 7,000 lbs CVWR is what his shipping invoice said.

It's only an issue because I believe the tag fee in GA is based on weight, and I'd hate to pay more than necessary.

Thoughts?

[tinkeringtechie]

Looks like a flat $12 to me:

[a href="http://motor.etax.dor.ga.gov/motor/RegistrationSection/forms/pdf/MV_Schedule_of_Tags_and_Fees.pdf"]http://motor.etax.dor.ga.gov/motor/RegistrationSection/forms/pdf/MV_Schedule_of_Tags_and_Fees.pdf[/a]

[fasteddieb]

Cool.

Funny, when I just called Fannin County they said weight was a factor, but if I could show the certificate was wrong they'd make an allowance.

When I go back to the hangar later to turn on the space heaters (26º forecast and I do not want to winterize again) I'll check the data plate. It says there, right?

[djsamuel]

[quote source="/post/551/thread" timestamp="1397581804" author="@fasteddieb"]Here's another bit of weirdness...

...on the Livin'Lite site they list the 21BHS as 3,499 Dry Weight, and GVWR of 5,000 lbs., leaving a Load Capacity of 1,501 lbs. All makes sense.

The Certificate Of Origin I just received shows 3,350 Shipping Weight and 7,000 lb. GVWR.

Calling the dealer in IL was not of much help. He said the 7,000 lbs CVWR is what his shipping invoice said.

It's only an issue because I believe the tag fee in GA is based on weight, and I'd hate to pay more than necessary.

Thoughts?[/quote]The tag on my 21BHS says 7,000 pounds, but the web site/brochure says 5,000.  The load capacity of the tires (ST tires, load range D) is 1750 pounds.  Multiply that by 4 and you get 7,000 pounds.  Each axle has a capacity of 3500 pounds.  So, it does have a load capacity of 7,000 pounds, but perhaps taking towing dynamics into account, they lower it to 5,000 pounds.  Even with a dry weight of 3500 pounds, that is still 1500 pounds of payload.  I don't think I'll meet that.

[charliem]

[font size="3"][font face="arial"]Confusion because LL is not too rigorous with their weights. The certificate of origin appears based on some generic number from LL. The 21RBS is advertised at 3350 and the 21BHS at 3499. [/font][/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"]Neither reflects options added.[/font][/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"]That makes some sense since the BHS has heavy bunks, but I think they use some common or generic data when filling out the Cert. I don't think the cert weight reflects an actual factory as built measurement.  The advertised 5000 GVWR is apparently old because each axle is rated at 3500 per actual labels on them. That plus the tongue weight adds up to slightly more than 7000. I have no idea what the shipping weight on the invoice means. I saw a couple at another dealer that had 3500 shipping and 7000 GVWR. I go with 7000 GVWR and 3500 dry weight with options. If your tax office goes by the cert of origin, which is all they have, you're probably OK or getting some benefit from a lower shipping weight. Good news is the 7000 GVWR is real. Load up on more beer and ice cream  

And don't look for an as built weight sticker. It ain't there. All other RV manufacturers except LL have one.
[/font][/font]

[fasteddieb]

Well, this is on my trailer tongue and confirms what the Certificate of Origin says:






Don at Livin' Lite said it was normal for their trailers not to be able to use GFCI outlets. I referred him to this thread.

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/559/thread" timestamp="1397604865" author="@fasteddieb"]Don at Livin' Lite said it was normal for their trailers not to be able to use GFCI outlets. I referred him to this thread.[/quote]That's a bit worrisome.

I had a realization though... breakers only disconnect circuits from the hot side, the neutral always stays connected. So your neutral/ground fault is not necessarily between the panel and the exterior outlet. It could be a device or outlet in the trailer. If you decide to tackle this yourself, you'd need to disconnect each neutral circuit and test them individually. Before you do that make sure that it isn't a device that you added inside.