Weight Distribution, Sway, and Tongue Weight

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/1785/thread" timestamp="1404248151" author="@david"]I am a brand new member and an owner of a 16' Camplite that we purchased in April of this year. My dealer, Dave at D&H RV just posted an email I sent him about my experiences with the Cl, almost all positive. Please read the comments about WDH/Sway Control. None needed with my tow vehicle, a 2013 Nissan Pathfinder.

We were also interested in the 21' model and for that one our TV would have been marginal without a WDH. As previously reported above LL doesn't really recommend WDHs due to the A-Frame strength so I probably would have strengthened the A frame with welded aluminum plate. Also as noted above it is not recommended to use bolted through brackets on aluminum frames. Here is a short note from Reese Hitch technical folks commenting on their WDH:

Dual cam sway control requires drilling of the frame.  We would suggest the 66558.
Cequent Performance Products

Sway is a matter of TV and trailer geometry and the stiffness of the TV's suspension. There are rules of thumb of the maximum ration of TV wheelbase to TV length for decent towing. I can't quote them but I am sure they can be googled. I suspect that with the 16' Cl I am within the guidelines but outside with the 21' Cl. It also helps a lot that my tow weight is about 60% of the TV loaded weight.

WD is a different issue. It is used to shift some of the trailer's tongue weight from the rear axle to the front axle of the TV. My tongue weight is about 270 lbs (about 8% of the tow weight). I could make it higher by shifting trailer stuff forward, but it works now, so leave it alone. The rear suspension drops about 1-/2 inches and that is acceptable. Much more and I would want a WDH.

My 16'ers trailer loaded weight is about 3,300 lbs. The 21'er is 200-300 lbs heavier and steel frame models hit 4,000# and upwards. I wouldn't want to pull 4,000 lbs with my Pathfinder, even though it is rated for 5.000#.

I would be happy to answer specific WDH/sway hitch and towing questions on this thread. For general Cl stuff, see Dave's post. I will answer those questions in that thread.

David



[/quote]Welcome to the forum! I commend you for carefully selecting a trailer that's appropriate for your tow vehicle. There are way too many overweight rigs out there and I'm always glad to see someone err on the side of caution. While you may not "need" sway control or weight distribution, it can still improve handling and performance. I didn't need it either, but I chose to add it for the unexpected situations (emergency braking, a tire blows out, having to swerve around an obstacle, a huge gust of wind hits the trailer, etc...). I want to make sure I have as much traction and stability as possible for those situations.

[david]

Thanks for your kind words. That is exactly what I did- selected a trailer that weighed less than 2/3 of my TV and used only 2/3 of its rated towing capacity.

I do appreciate that a WDH would improve emergency handling even for my situation. When I talked to Troy at the factory about his reticence to recommend WDHs for the aluminum frame he did allow that once you have towed with one, you will always want one. Troy is an ex Resse guy.

David

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/1805/thread" timestamp="1404318208" author="@david"]Thanks for your kind words. That is exactly what I did- selected a trailer that weighed less than 2/3 of my TV and used only 2/3 of its rated towing capacity.

I do appreciate that a WDH would improve emergency handling even for my situation. When I talked to Troy at the factory about his reticence to recommend WDHs for the aluminum frame he did allow that once you have towed with one, you will always want one. Troy is an ex Resse guy.

David[/quote]I think LL's reluctance to recommend any WDH is mostly because they don't have the resources to test each and every combination. They also don't have any control over the way the hitches are installed (some dealers and owners are just clueless). From a liability stance, it's safer for them to recommend nothing than to recommend something untested. Well there are quite a few of us testing with various setups and none of us have had the front of our trailers fall off yet 

I chose full-length clamp on brackets with a medium spring bar (600lbs) to help reduce the stress on the frame. I can imagine that if you used one of the 1,000+ lbs hitches and went off-roading it might put too much stress on the frame.

[shortcircuit]

The downside to the equalizer type hitches is that the pressure on the spring bars is what creates the sway control. If there isn't any weight on the spring bars they will just swing freely.

I have an equalizer hitch on my camplite setup. There are four friction points in the Equal-i-zer hitch system for sway control. Two friction points are the spring arms contacting the L brackets on the trailer frame. The other two friction points are between the swing arm sockets pivoting in the hitch head. The bolts holding those sockets to the hitch head are torqued to a minimum 45 to maximum 65 ft-lb. as described in the Equal-i-zer hitch owners manual on page 23. My swing arms are very hard to swing because of the friction in the swing arm sockets. I have to use a plastic pipe extension to help get them into position to lift them onto the L brackets.

I keep my swing arms at about 1 1/2" below the L brackets when relaxed. This gives me just enough flex to level the setup, but not enough to bend the aluminum trailer frame members. The trailer tows very well with no sway even if a truck passes by at highway speeds.  

If your spring arms are easy to swivel back and forth, then the swing arm socket bolts are too loose and no sway control is applied from that part of the system.

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/4032/thread" timestamp="1412287802" author="@shortcircuit"][quote source="/post/756/thread" timestamp="1398785094" author="@tinkeringtechie"]The downside to the equalizer type hitches is that the pressure on the spring bars is what creates the sway control. If there isn't any weight on the spring bars they will just swing freely.[/quote]
I have an equalizer hitch on my camplite setup. There are four friction points in the Equal-i-zer hitch system for sway control. Two friction points are the spring arms contacting the L brackets on the trailer frame. The other two friction points are between the swing arm sockets pivoting in the hitch head. The bolts holding those sockets to the hitch head are torqued to a minimum 45 to maximum 65 ft-lb. as described in the Equal-i-zer hitch owners manual on page 23. My swing arms are very hard to swing because of the friction in the swing arm sockets. I have to use a plastic pipe extension to help get them into position to lift them onto the L brackets.

I keep my swing arms at about 1 1/2" below the L brackets when relaxed. This gives me just enough flex to level the setup, but not enough to bend the aluminum trailer frame members. The trailer tows very well with no sway even if a truck passes by at highway speeds.  

If your spring arms are easy to swivel back and forth, then the swing arm socket bolts are too loose and no sway control is applied from that part of the system.[/quote]I only have the 2-point version, but I thought the other 2-points were also based on weight. If they're set by bolt torque then you'll lose some of your sway control if your tongue weight is reduced, but part of it will be constant. Hmmm... maybe I should've bought the 4-point version...

[shortcircuit]

The tongue weight has nothing to do with the swing arm socket friction adjustment. The socket bolt torque affects the swing arm socket friction level. However, the amount of swing arm flexing will add to the socket friction value.

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/4034/thread" timestamp="1412294235" author="@shortcircuit"]The tongue weight has nothing to do with the swing arm socket friction adjustment. The socket bolt torque affects the swing arm socket friction level. However, the amount of swing arm flexing will add to the socket friction value.[/quote]Yeah, I think we're on the same page but I didn't write my response very clearly. What I was trying to say is that out of the total 4 points of friction, only 2 (the l-brackets) are affected by tongue weight. The other 2 (the sockets) should be relatively constant.

[daplumbr]

To revive an older thread......I've done some searches on this and other forums for information on weight distribution hitches and anti-sway bars. It seems the 16TBS is at (or below) the size of trailer that normally benefits from a wdh. However, when towing the empty trailer with my Land Cruiser, I had what I would describe as a rather busy ride---lots of very small movements of the trailer up and down and back and forth. Nothing unsafe or difficult to control at all, but unsettling for 100 miles. When I get the TBS loaded (but w/o water), I would guess I'll be adding about 300-500 lbs to the trailer with about 150 lbs of that on the tongue. That will put my total weight around 3500 and tongue weight around 350. The Land Cruiser capacity is 6500 total and 650 tongue and the vehicle weighs close to 3 tons loaded. I have no experience with a wdh hitch and the setup I have certainly doesn't need it to meet weight capacities, but I wonder if that type of hitch accessory would help quiet the ride? Maybe just the additional weight of the load will help? Maybe just an anti-sway bar would help? i plan to tow long distances next year so i want to get a comfortable setup installed now. Any experiences from fellow Camplighters with wdh or ant-sway on the 16 foot models would be appreciated

[david]

[p]Your increased tongue weight will help more than anything else. It will put more weight on the coupler and prevent noisy bouncing. It will also change the dynamics and reduce sway.[/p][p]
David[/p]

[jtelles3993]

[quote timestamp="1398788435" author="@djsamuel" source="/post/759/thread"]You can view a video that provides a good description of the Andersen Hitch here:


[/quote]that is a pretty slick product... should I need one, I'll definitely consider it!

[pinstriper]

I've been asking my dealer about the Anderson for my 14DBS. Their only experience is they installed one, and haven't heard back from the customer one way or another.

I finally got over there to pick her up after winterizing and some minor warranty work, and he said they have started installing something called a Steadi-Flex...designed for lighter tongue-weight rigs. They are using them a lot with the R-Pods (this dealer moves a lot of R-Pods) as well as LL's.

Anyone ever heard of this ? I found a picture on e-trailer.com, and it looks like a thinned-down WDH. Nothing magic.

[jtelles3993]

[quote source="/post/6164/thread" timestamp="1421902666" author="@pinstriper"]I've been asking my dealer about the Anderson for my 14DBS. Their only experience is they installed one, and haven't heard back from the customer one way or another.

I finally got over there to pick her up after winterizing and some minor warranty work, and he said they have started installing something called a Steadi-Flex...designed for lighter tongue-weight rigs. They are using them a lot with the R-Pods (this dealer moves a lot of R-Pods) as well as LL's.

Anyone ever heard of this ? I found a picture on e-trailer.com, and it looks like a thinned-down WDH. Nothing magic.[/quote]From what I found "Steady-Flex" is built by Reese, the specific hitch that D&H RV recommended to Dave (I think?) was #66558.

[geo92128]

I am a new member and have not yet taken delivery of our 21BHS. I have a 2015 chevy colorado rated at 7000 lbs. towing capacity. I figure the loaded trailer will near 4500 lbs. or so; that I will be in the 64-67% ratio of tow vehicle weight to trailer loaded weight.
I have decided to get the Andersen hitch because of the threads on this forum. Actually I have taken a couple of headache tablets trying to decide but am forging ahead with Andersen due to cost, ease of installation/adjustment, and comments from many that have it already as well has watching every youtube video on it out there!
My question is regarding the LL aluminum 21BHS tongue strength, should I have LL/dealer strengthen the tongue with welding aluminum plate? I see where several members have the 21 ft. trailer along with the Andersen hitch but not sure if they beefed up the tongue frame or not. If so what are the dimensions of the frame after adding aluminum plate?
Based on all the comments I am not sure I need the additional strength.
Thanks for your comments!

[jtelles3993]

My understanding is that the Andersen does not provide much WD and that it's the WD function that would cause the stress not recommended on the aluminum frames... ?

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/6828/thread" timestamp="1424052285" author="@surfsup"]My understanding is that the Andersen does not provide much WD and that it's the WD function that would cause the stress not recommended on the aluminum frames... ?[/quote][font size="3"]Per djsamuel that's also my understanding re the Andresen WDH performance. The CL frame should not be an issue, but the ball coupler is a weak spot. Check the thread on bent couplers.
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