Brakes Locking

[ufixit]

I'm a newbie to travel trailers and towing, so anything that seems slightly out of the ordinary while towing our new CampLite 14DB sparks instant concern. So perhaps this is a non-issue. Here's the facts:

We're using a "Reese Brakeman Digital" model 83500 electronic trailer brake control in our Honda Pilot TV. I've now towed the brand new trailer a total of ~300 miles on very flat roads, mostly on the highway and city streets. I haven't noticed any lack of control, or severe jerkiness when stopping -- Just a little roughness when coming to a stop, or when backing the trailer into its storage location, all at slow speeds.

Recently when picking up the trailer at the storage unit, I glanced at the sideview mirror while braking at ~5 MPH, and noticed that one of the trailer's wheels was locking up. (It could have been more than one wheel, but my view was obscured.) It happened repeatedly on gravel, and on smooth dry asphalt as well. The digital controller "output control" was set to [b style="text-decoration:underline;"]3[/b] (on a scale of [b style="text-decoration:underline;"]0[/b] to [b style="text-decoration:underline;"]10[/b] with [b style="text-decoration:underline;"]10[/b] being maximum), and I found that by setting the output to 1 I was able to prevent the lock-up from occurring. But at the 1 setting I don't think that the amount of trailer braking would be adequate when 3 seemed about right when the technician tested my setup at time of delivery. BTW - The digital controller's "sync control" setting was set to "minimum aggressiveness" when the lock-up was occurring so I don't think that was the issue. There are no other controller settings mentioned in the controller manual.

The dealer, after listening to my description but without observing the lock-up behavior, told me that the low-speed lock-ups were normal, and nothing to be concerned about provided that the brakes were behaving normally at roadway speeds. Is that the experience of others on this forum?

When I get the trailer back I'm planning to test the brakes more carefully by taking a video of the braking behavior of all the trailer's wheels while slowing to a stop at various speeds. Our next trip is planned for the mountains, and I want to be confident that the brakes are working correctly before we go.

[david]

If your trailer brakes lock up at slow speed on gravel, that is ok and is where I set mine. But locking up on dry pavement is not ok and indicates too much current is being sent to the brakes.

The problem may be that your controller just doesn't have enough adjustment stops: 3 is too much and maybe 2 is too little. My controller which is a simple non proportional one has about 5 positions between almost no braking on 1 to locking up on dry pavement on 5 and it goes up to 10 I think. I set mine to 3 or 4.

So I would consider a different controller.

The proportional controllers are best. They have a sensor that measures the deceleration rate and applies more current accordingly. They give a much smoother stop and don't grab when just coasting to a stop with your foot lightly on the brakes like the time delay ones do.

Tekonsha is one manufacturer. They have several models of the inertial/proportional kind. The Primus IQ is self leveling and will work fine and is less than $100 at etrailer. Often it is a simple plug in changeout.

David

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Adding to what david says, I occasionally experience brake grabbing or lockup on hard pavement after periods of non use. I think the brakes accumulate some moisture when sitting. The fix is to lightly apply the trailer brakes manually while moving slowly until the water burns off. Much the same as you do with you car brakes occasionally. It would be impossible to adjust brakes to be effective on dry pavement, but not tend to lock up in gravel or wet pavement. Just be careful.

I also prefer the Tekonsha controllers. Amazon lists the P3 model for $145 including the harness. I have and totally recommend the P3. Much easier to set up, adjust, and monitor then others only slightly cheaper.
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[charliem]

[quote source="/post/9114/thread" timestamp="1428681072" author="@charlesscharlau"]

We're using a "Reese Brakeman Digital" model 83500 electronic trailer brake control in our Honda Pilot TV. 


There are no other controller settings mentioned in the controller manual.

[/quote][font size="3"]This last statement concerns me. Is there no manual control that allows application of the trailer brakes without touching the TV brake pedal? If so, you definitely need a better controller. Manual control is an absolute necessity to control and correct sway. Your Reese unit appears to be a pretty low end model. I recommend upgrading to A Tekonsha P3.
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[jerrybeaird]

+2 on the P3 controller.....It was real easy to set up and It works well.

[ufixit]

[quote source="/post/9128/thread" timestamp="1428687940" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/9114/thread" timestamp="1428681072" author="@charlesscharlau"]We're using a "Reese Brakeman Digital" model 83500 electronic trailer brake control in our Honda Pilot TV. 


There are no other controller settings mentioned in the controller manual.

[/quote][font size="3"]This last statement concerns me. Is there no manual control that allows application of the trailer brakes without touching the TV brake pedal? If so, you definitely need a better controller. Manual control is an absolute necessity to control and correct sway. Your Reese unit appears to be a pretty low end model. I recommend upgrading to A Tekonsha P3.
[/font][/quote]The Reese Brakeman Digital controller does have a manual switch for applying trailer braking independent of pressing the TV brakes. I wouldn't call that a "setting", but merely a "feature". Apparently a fairly low-end feature at that. I'll definitely look into a better controller if this one proves to be a problem. The trailer had been sitting out for a week or more before the incident, so I'd have to say that moisture might have been present inside the brakes.

If it is purely the controller that is the issue, then I would be a little surprised if only a single wheel locked up. Wouldn't the controller be applying the same braking signal to all four wheels, and therefore one would expect that multiple wheels would lock? I do need to reproduce the problem in order to establish precisely what is happening, since I didn't get a good look at all the wheels. I could hear the skidding tire, but except for the noise I probably would not have noticed it was locking up: it wasn't doing a very efficient job of stopping the trailer - making me suspect that it was the single brake that had locked. Perhaps a brake adjustment issue? More moisture in some wheels than others?

[charliem]

[font size="3"]The control to apply the trailer brakes should be a gradual or variable control as opposed to an on/off control. You need to be able to manually apply anything from partial to full braking. You will need this to burn off the moisture. I can't tell from the data I have. Also, the Reese doesn't make any mention of proportional or accelerometer sensing operation, which is the real advantage of the Tekonshas.

It is possible that one brake is more sensitive to moisture or is adjusted differently. I would take the trailer out on dry pavement, burn off the water as described, and retest. 

BTW, I towed an RPOD 172, slightly lighter than your 14DB, for a year with a 2010 4WD Pilot. You should be fine as long as you don't need to be first to the top of the hill.  Good luck.


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[ufixit]

Thanks for everyone's feedback thus far. The plan right now is to pick up the trailer tomorrow, tow it for a few miles and make sure the brakes are warm and dry, and then see if I can reproduce the problem.

Even the "Reese Brakeman Digital" documentation that comes with the unit makes no mention of proportional or accelerometer sensing - which I take to mean that it does not have it. Regardless my test results I'll give serious thought to replacing the Reese unit with a Tekonsha before negotiating that first 6% downhill grade. I wonder how easy they are to install? I would hope that I can reuse much of the Reese wiring, not the plug/play harness, but the wires going back to the connector in back and any battery connections.

I found the Tekonsha install instructions. These should help with some of my questions: http://tekonsha.com/support/installation/N90195.pdf

[charliem]

[font size="3"]What year is your Pilot? Did it come with the round 7 pin trailer connector installed or did you have to do it? As I recall my 2010 4WD Pilot came with the hitch and receiver, but I had to have the dealer install the short cable and 7 pin connector. It bugged me that Honda ran the cable near, but not all the way to, the rear bumper. If you have the factory installed, or a known working, 7 pin connector it should be good. The Pilot comes standard with the brake controller connecter under the dash so the Takonsha should be plug & play. 

Drive your trailer on dry pavement a few miles applying the brakes gently until things dry out. You should be able to feel the trailer brakes grab the first few times. Good luck and let us know how you do.
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[ufixit]

We've got a 2008 model year Honda Pilot. But it was gently used, never used to tow, and has less than 30,000 miles on it. I had the Reese controller installed by a reputable aftermarket hitch installer. The Pilot did not have the towing kit, and the dealer had to install the round 7-pin trailer connector when they installed the brake controller (and hitch). That work was done several years ago, long before we purchased the 14DB, but we never used it to tow before now. The trailer connector and brake controller test out good electrically, and have shown no serious problems (so far as I can determine with my limited experience) except for the low-speed lock-up issue.

A bad cold may delay picking up the trailer today, but I'll try testing with warm, dry, brakes here in the next few days.

[djsamuel]

Thanks for everyone's feedback thus far. The plan right now is to pick up the trailer tomorrow, tow it for a few miles and make sure the brakes are warm and dry, and then see if I can reproduce the problem.

Even the "Reese Brakeman Digital" documentation that comes with the unit makes no mention of proportional or accelerometer sensing - which I take to mean that it does not have it. Regardless my test results I'll give serious thought to replacing the Reese unit with a Tekonsha before negotiating that first 6% downhill grade. I wonder how easy they are to install? I would hope that I can reuse much of the Reese wiring, not the plug/play harness, but the wires going back to the connector in back and any battery connections.

I found the Tekonsha install instructions. These should help with some of my questions: http://tekonsha.com/support/installation/N90195.pdf

I looked up the Reese Brakeman Digital.  It is a timed controller, not proportional.  When I purchased my truck, it had a timed controller on it, and after two trips, I changed it to a proportional (a Curt controller).  HUGE improvement.  

[ufixit]

I got around to picking up the RV yesterday. As I was pulling out of the lot the brake lock-up issue occurred again, and an employee observed it and flagged me down. It was only the left front wheel that was locking up, and doing so consistently on both gravel and dry pavement. I tried driving about a mile down the highway with light brake pressure applied for several hundred yards, then turned around and came back to the lot. Upon returning with warm dry brakes the issue did not seem to happen at all, neither on pavement nor even on gravel.

Talking it over with the service staff, they informed me that after approximately 300 miles towing a new trailer, it would be a good idea to inspect and adjust the brakes. It sounded good to me, so I left the trailer there. Now I've just received a phone message from the service department informing me that "... it came down to a wire and the electromagnet not being fully connected, so it wasn't applying full power to that one brake. And the other brake was giving more power. So we reattached that, readjusted it, and everything seems to be working great." I will be picking up the unit tomorrow and can provide a final update after towing it, but it appears that this was likely an electrical issue. Interestingly, an electrical issue that behaved in many respects just as one might expect from moisture intrusion.

This is the third electricity-related issue I've encountered with this brand new travel trailer. The other two involved the shore power connecter, and the ceiling lighting inside the unit. The dealer has been friendly and eager to help with each issue, which I appreciate very much! But those issues, plus a like number of non-electrical issues that the dealer has also addressed, make me wonder about the overall quality of the CL (and LL) products. The aluminum construction is great, but there's more to a camping trailer than the shell. This is my first-ever purchase of a travel trailer of any kind, so perhaps my experience is typical for every TT manufacturer... a sad thought, but a great opportunity for a company out there that learns how to manage their manufacturing processes effectively.

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/9385/thread" author="@charlesscharlau" timestamp="1429124092"]This is the third electricity-related issue I've encountered with this brand new travel trailer. The other two involved the shore power connecter, and the ceiling lighting inside the unit. The dealer has been friendly and eager to help with each issue, which I appreciate very much! But those issues, plus a like number of non-electrical issues that the dealer has also addressed, make me wonder about the overall quality of the CL (and LL) products. The aluminum construction is great, but there's more to a camping trailer than the shell. This is my first-ever purchase of a travel trailer of any kind, so perhaps my experience is typical for every TT manufacturer... a sad thought, but a great opportunity for a company out there that learns how to manage their manufacturing processes effectively.[/quote]Unfortunately this seems to be pretty common for all travel trailers. I think the manufacturers leave a lot of the final inspection work to the dealers. If the dealer isn't very thorough with the inspection then some of these problems make it through to you. Many times it's stuff that came loose or settled AFTER they finished (during shipping, temperature swings, materials relaxing, etc...).

The same thing happens with houses. I'd never buy a brand new house, but I'd gladly buy a year-old house after it's had some time to settle and work out any leaks, cracks, creaks, etc....

[canuck]

I know your situation seems frustrating but I agree with TT.

My wife consistently reminded me that there will be issues with our new travel trailer, you just have to remember the big picture and handle those annoyances as they come. For instance, I just forked out $63.00 CAD for new storage lid gas struts. We improved our bed and as a result the OEM struts were very inadequate. On a brand new travel trailer unit should I really have to do that? Why did the factory install the minimum? Now, we can open and close with ease. My counter top is pulling away from the structure below, this week-end I will fix that. But, I am crossing my fingers that we do not have the same issues others have had with the holding tank vent pipe being inserted too far into the tank. That will mean a 2.5 hour trip to the dealer, leaving it then picking it up again. We won't be able to test for that as our climate is still too cold to use our water. And, you know what? I am fine with all of it.

Speaking with a co-worker today about travel trailers, he informed me that his traditional 7 year old unit has been almost completely gutted, he noticed some mold and rot on the floor and started to investigate? He discovered a leak below a window and it ruined his rig. Walls, floor, structure everything, his wife does not want to ever go into it again due to the amount of mold they found. On week-ends we are out enjoying the outdoors and my co-worker is spending his time and money trying to salvage a doomed traditional travel trailer.

Just hang in there!



 

[ufixit]

It sounds to me like the travel trailer manufacturers are in approximately the same state as automobile manufacturers about 40 years ago. No one seemed to have figured out how to make reliable cars until the Japanese manufacturing processes began cranking out autos with nearly zero defects. Neither customers nor dealers should be responsible for fixing problems with design and manufacture. And the marketing departments can only be effective at keeping market share so long as there are no better alternatives. CL/LL has addressed a huge number of quality and maintenance issues with their choice of aluminum for the structure of their products. Now if they can fix their manufacturing and design issues they might become a dominant player in their market.

Ok, I'll climb off my soap box now... it's time to pick up the trailer.