Brakes Locking

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/9425/thread" timestamp="1429190354" author="@charlesscharlau"]Now if they can fix their manufacturing and design issues they might become a dominant player in their market.

Ok, I'll climb off my soap box now... it's time to pick up the trailer.[/quote][font size="3"]Charles,

I'll take slight exception to your statement on design/manufacturing issues. Other than the jackknife sofa issues, I can't think of any real engineering problems. As an engineer myself I've been very impressed with the engineering LL put into the CLs. However, the best engineering can be negated by poor manufacturing, workmanship, and inspection. These are the problems I think LL is guilty of, just like the rest of the TT industry. But even there' LL is ahaed of their competitors IMHO. Your thoughts??
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[david]

Charlie:

LL manufacturing defects discussed here are totally anecdotal, but I will provide mine. Absolutely none, nada, except for the crappy sofa. There is certainly stuff I would do differently if I were building it from scratch, but no defects. That might have something to do with having an excellent dealer: D&H RV in Apex, NC.

David

[charliem]

[font size="3"]David,

Good to hear your zero defect experience. I really think that's more the norm with LL, but you hear more often from those with problems. Overall I'm extremely please with LL's design and engineering and only had one or two minor workmanship problems. One loose wire and  some improperly installed window catches. Of course the biggest fault I've found is the tongue coupler installation. Had one supplier problem with the Micro, but I don't chalk that up to LL.
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[ufixit]

I picked up the trailer and all is well. My dealer took care of me once again. I've got to hand it to D&H RV Center, they are patient and accommodating when it comes to taking care of their customers. My sincere thanks goes out to them.

The trailer had been sitting in extended rain, and I drove the trailer home on wet roads. Moisture, if present inside the wheels, did not seem to affect the braking. Likewise, the brake controller once adjusted correctly (which it is now thanks again to D&H) also seemed to perform correctly. The dealer had corrected the loose wire and re-adjusted all four brakes, and there was a noticeable improvement in braking after that work was done - and no more locking up on pavement. Eventually I may replace the controller with a more modern design (Tekonsha P3 or similar), but with properly working brakes I'm pretty happy with the Reese.

A word of advice to other newbie "timed" controller unit owners: when first attempting to adjust the controller's settings, be sure to adjust the timing setting (the "sync control" on the Reese) somewhere near the middle of its settings range. What is meant by "timing" is actually the rate at which the controller ramps up the trailer braking force from zero to the current output control level setting. If the ramp rate is set to be too rapid ("aggressive" in Reese parlance) then it increases the chances of having the brakes lock up - and makes for jerky stops, especially at slow speeds or when backing up. If the ramp rate is set too long then there can be an unacceptably long delay between pressing the TV brake pedal and the moment when trailer braking is applied.

[gnies]

Same for me I had no defect, everything is good so far

[ufixit]

Mine is but a single data point, and does not make a trend. I'm happy to learn that LL (and perhaps all TT manufacturers) may routinely crank out defect-free products. That's great for us consumers. But it also means that there isn't so much room for manufacturers to improve - so perhaps there's not much opportunity for LL to have products that stand out from the pack of nearly-perfect travel trailers - except for the widely-understood benefits of the all-aluminum construction. Reading the great experiences of others gives me hope that now with the brakes, lighting, shore power, cargo door seals, toilet, and black tank rinse all squared away, there will be no other issues with our brand new 14DB. It's time to go camping!

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Charles,

IMHO differences among vendors should be in design and quality levels. Workmanship should be a given! Unfortunately it's not. LL is way ahead of the crowd with it's aluminum construction. It's also ahead with it's engineering implementation which is a design function. Note that you can get to every pipe and almost every wire. Wires are in wire wrap. Grommets are used at penetrations. The appliances are good for the market they are serving, with the exception of the jack knife sofa.  So LL's ahead in design, engineering, and quality. I'd like to think they're also ahead in workmanship, but the data is insufficient. 
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[leslie]

I dislike disagreeing eith charliem, one of the tech gods on the board, but here goes... My jackknife sofa works just the way it is supposed to. I think the people who want to rip out the jackknife are people who just don't like it.

The sleeping bed sofa that converts is the one that has missing parts, causing the notorious sag, such as funpilot experienced in his 28-BHS that he declined. I doubt that LL has been able to fix this problem yet.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]OK, Leslie. I maybe confused on the terminology since I have neither. Seems like I've heard folks having trouble with both the jack knife and the other sofa and I really don't know the difference. The point I was making is that is the only real design problem I hear about. That's a pretty good recommendation for LL and CLs. And the sofa thing may also be the luck of the draw. Just in the last few days we've heard from someone with a list of problems, followed by several who were totally satisfied from day one. So I'm glad your jack knife is working fine, and don't hesitate to jump in on me. We all need to be reminded of our place occasionally    Camp on..............
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[tincan]

Hey,

Just to echo the comment of Powder Hound, My Square Old White Box (SOWB) traditional TT, developed a slow leak at the top back roof corner, Trim was leaking.  Did not notice it until ice formed under vinyl flooring, Floor, 2 walls, and roof need work. Bill to repair = $7100.  Net worth of trailer $10K. Why even bother, sold to someone who wants to invest his time and money into the repair. I gave him the estimate, told him about the damage, and he still wants it. OK, he bought it for $3,000.  Good Bye and hello new CL!

I do expect some minor issues, but honestly I am not worried.  If I can't fix it, LL and a dealer will.  They seem to be good about that.

[ufixit]

I get the feeling that the average TT customer expects to find a laundry list of issues from any new TT they purchase, and that the manufacturer or dealer will fix those issues during the warranty period. That was also my expectation, and has turned out to be my experience. The expectations that my new purchase might be less than perfect came in part from reading all the issues reported by customers on this forum. But hope springs eternal in the heart of a camper, and with all the things that LL is doing right, a glimmer of hope remained that LL's manufacturing processes would match their superiority in other respects: all aluminum construction, access to every pipe and almost every wire, wires in wire wrap, and grommets at penetrations, etc.

My definition of a defect includes only those issues where a feature or component does not function as designed. A cheap thermostat that, after enough jiggering and cursing, does keep the camper temperature within a reasonable temperature range, is not a defect. It was selected by the manufacturer based on cost and customer quality expectations, and is functioning just as it was designed. But a toilet that does not hold water, an electrical connection with an open circuit, lights that flicker, doors that don't seal, brakes that lock: those are all defects in my book. And in my case, their root cause can all be traced back to the manufacturer's failure to perform work correctly, or the manufacturer's failure to identify and avoid installing defective components.

I am not greatly disappointed with the number or severity of the issues I've found thus far. With the possible exception of the loose brake wire, none of the issues posed even a remote safety risk. I'd have to say that the overall number of defects found thus far is roughly in line with my expectations, and also in line with what I've seen reported on this forum and forums of other TT manufacturers. All the core advantages of LL, particularly the design of their frame and shell, puts them well ahead of the pack in my opinion. And those core advantages should lead to far fewer reliability issues down the road, once all the new-product issues have been identified and resolved. In short, I'm still a LL happy camper.

[djsamuel]

I get the feeling that the average TT customer expects to find a laundry list of issues from any new TT they purchase, and that the manufacturer or dealer will fix those issues during the warranty period. That was also my expectation, and has turned out to be my experience. The expectations that my new purchase might be less than perfect came in part from reading all the issues reported by customers on this forum. But hope springs eternal in the heart of a camper, and with all the things that LL is doing right, a glimmer of hope remained that LL's manufacturing processes would match their superiority in other respects: all aluminum construction, access to every pipe and almost every wire, wires in wire wrap, and grommets at penetrations, etc.

My definition of a defect includes only those issues where a feature or component does not function as designed. A cheap thermostat that, after enough jiggering and cursing, does keep the camper temperature within a reasonable temperature range, is not a defect. It was selected by the manufacturer based on cost and customer quality expectations, and is functioning just as it was designed. But a toilet that does not hold water, an electrical connection with an open circuit, lights that flicker, doors that don't seal, brakes that lock: those are all defects in my book. And in my case, their root cause can all be traced back to the manufacturer's failure to perform work correctly, or the manufacturer's failure to identify and avoid installing defective components.

I am not greatly disappointed with the number or severity of the issues I've found thus far. With the possible exception of the loose brake wire, none of the issues posed even a remote safety risk. I'd have to say that the overall number of defects found thus far is roughly in line with my expectations, and also in line with what I've seen reported on this forum and forums of other TT manufacturers. All the core advantages of LL, particularly the design of their frame and shell, puts them well ahead of the pack in my opinion. And those core advantages should lead to far fewer reliability issues down the road, once all the new-product issues have been identified and resolved. In short, I'm still a LL happy camper.

This matches the experiences of many.  I found it took almost a year for me to iron out the issues in my 21BHS, including a stubborn leak and a tire that needed to be replaced.  However, starting with our 5,000 trip to Arizona and Utah (from Florida) and several local trips since, the camper has been perfect.  The nice thing with the LL is the fact that if you get a leak, it won't be damaged.