How to camp with no hookups

[david]

[p]Apropos of the rustic thread, I thought I would start a new one about techniques for camping without hookups. Also some of the aesthetic benefits of camping in more rustic places without hookups. Some of this seems obvious and basic. But I will bet that there are some of you who have only camped with hookups and need a little coaching to try the more rustic type of camping.[/p][p]
[/p][p]All Camplite travel trailers AFAIK come with batteries, fresh water tanks, grey and black water tanks, propane stoves, water heaters and furnaces, all of which allow camping with no outside support. So lets look at each one and how it is used. I will use my 16TBS as the basis for the foregoing as it is in the middle of the CL range. The comments below apply to two people so modify the usage and the volumes accordingly.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Battery- I have a single 70 amphour battery that will cover our needs for three days. See my other thread on batteries, generators and solar panels for ways to upgrade this and a bit on how it works. But the single battery straight from the factory works fine for us. But we only camp in place where it is cool enough without A/C.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Fresh Water- We typically travel with the fresh water tank half full to limit tow weight. This is about 20 gallons and will last for about three days with showers, dishwashing and toilet flushing. If we know we are going to stay longer we will fill the tank when we arrive. Most campgrounds have a faucet for every ten or so campsites and are always on the side of the access road.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Many state campgrounds don't have a hose bib fitting on the end of their water faucets- only a smooth outlet. I made a short adapter that uses 3/4" pvc hose that screws into a garden hose that I can slip over the end of one of these smooth fittings so I can refill the tank. Next week we are going to a NFS site that only has hand pumps. I bought a collapsible 5 gallon water container that I can fill at the pump and then dump  into my water tank. I suspect that I will rarely have to use it since we rarely camp more than 2 days in any one place.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Grey Water- The grey water tank typically starts out empty and at 28 gallons will handle 4-5 days of useage.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Black Water- This tank has 32 gallons of capacity and it will last for 1-2 weeks.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Dumping Them- Like I said we typically arrive at a campsite with the fresh water tanks half full and the others empty. After 2-3 days when we leave we dump both tanks. This works ok for semi-developed campgrounds with dump stations, but won't work for the more remote one we are going to next week. I will have to search the net for available dump stations on the route back home.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Stove- The LPG stove works just like the gas stove in your home.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Water Heater- We usually turn the WH on about 15 minutes before me or my wife takes their shower and after the other one finishes we turn it off. This minimizes propane use. It is plenty hot for a shower after 15 minutes.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Furnace- We haven't used it as yet on our new LL. With another camper in the western states we used it when the night time temps got down to below 40 and just for overnight. By midmorning with the sun out, the inside was toasty.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Refrigerator- We usually don't even turn it on if we are going to be camping for 2 nights or less. We load up an ice chest with that we need with ice in plastic bags from the home refrigerator. That works fine. If we are going to be gone longer, I will turn on the refrigerator the night before so it will cool down by morning. Then we load it up and go.[/p][p]
[/p][p]So that is the gist of camping off grid. Here are some activities/aesthetic observations:[/p][p]
[/p][p]In the type of campgrounds we enjoy camping at, there are several daytime activities- hiking, fishing, canoeing, swimming in an adjacent lake or pond. Or just hanging out at the campsite and enjoying the activities of the squirrels and birds nearby with a good book.[/p][p]
[/p][p]In the evening 90% of the time we build a fire. We carry along a camp saw and axe. I have never bought firewood. But NPs don't allow gathering of firewood, so you have to be creative by sometimes going off the NP property, and picking up firewood on a back road. For the NFS and state campgrounds that do allow gathering something has changed. Twenty years ago I would often have to roam 1/4 mile or so away from the campsite to find suitable downed firewood. No more. I have never had to go more than a couple of hundred feet to find lots of available firewood. It is the plug in, wired mentality of our society that has changed it even when no hookups are available. Or it is just too easy to buy a bundle of wood (usually crappy pine or fir) at the entrance  station.[/p][p]
[/p][p]At least half the time we cook on the fire- steak, hamburgers and hot dogs. We also take along a small covered propane fired gas grill to cook things that take longer and need covered controlled heat like ribs. Once in a while we cook inside on the stove.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Finally, there is nothing more peaceful and satisfying than siting around a moderate campfire after dinner, maybe with a good bourbon, scotch or cognac in hand  and watching the flames and conversing with your mate. Even 60 years ago with small kids, we would put them to bed and then hang out at the campfire and be adults again. Even pre teens enjoyed toasting marshmellows to make s'mores. Anyone know what a s'more is?[/p][p]
[/p][p]David[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p]

[tinkeringtechie]

These are some pretty good tips. I'll add a couple more:

For fresh water out of modified taps just get a "water bandit":

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EDOSKG/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=44195833016&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=11993092812636531162&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_6slbryigjq_e

You can put it on just about anything, but keep in mind it won't hold pressure, so it's for filling your tank only (which also is non-pressurized).

Here in Washington most rest stops have dump stations, so if you're coming from a campground that doesn't have one then you don't have to drive far. Your state's rest stops may not have them, so check first.

Does anyone not know what a s'more is? 

[leslie]

David, I am printing out your post for my husband. Tent camping, which DH and I did when we were young marrieds, did not suit my husband. I camped with our sons, who all go camping now that they are adults.

The prospect of traveling once we start living on SS and a pension caused us to get a Camplite. Hubby wants full hook ups and is looking at high - end resorts. I want to boondock. Compromise, compromise...

[pinstriper]

I think David touched upon the four dreads I have about boondocking:

1) Keeping my fresh water tank safe to drink. I can get around this by buying/bringing 1 gallon of bottled water per day for drinking and cooking. We don't even drink "city water" at a campsite anyway. So my fresh water tank would be solely for flushing and dishes. If I'm boondocking, I'm not expecting showers. It's camping.

2) Propane. We don't cook inside anyway. With cooking outside on a Coleman, a single 1# can lasts me three weekends anyway. So all my propane would go to the fridge, with a little for the furnace overnight. And it's got two huge cans. Not an issue for me.

3) Electricity. Ah, here we go. The fridge controller. Lights (LED). Water pump. I see all those as pretty minimal, especially with a few battery powered lanterns for lighting. Just make sure not to go when we'd want the AC or even exhaust fans going. Still, I worry about battery, and will until I actually have a few off-grid trips under my belt and develop a feel for what it takes to actually run out. Wish I had a second battery to switch to when the first is out.

4) Black/grey tanks. Big fear here is filling them up before we're done camping. I honestly don't know how close we've ever come. This is a concern that won't go away until I pony up for a See Level.

Oh, and 5) Site. I've been lucky in that all the sites we've had were just about level, and most of them paved.

So really, it's all in (3) and (4). Just gotta take the plunge and see what happens, I reckon.

[ron]

Before we left the first campsite where we really used both of  our holding tanks for three nights, we timed the release of our black and gray water tanks, separately of course.   Then we filled each tank with ten gallons of water and again drained both tanks, timing the draining of both tanks...... Separately of course.  Some simple math and we got a reasonably good estimate of how much was in each tank.   We compared this to the capacity and documented all of this. To get a percentage full for each tank.   We now are pretty sure how much black and gray water we are producing in a normal day.

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/3211/thread" timestamp="1409711920" author="@pinstriper"]I think David touched upon the four dreads I have about boondocking:

1) Keeping my fresh water tank safe to drink. I can get around this by buying/bringing 1 gallon of bottled water per day for drinking and cooking. We don't even drink "city water" at a campsite anyway. So my fresh water tank would be solely for flushing and dishes. If I'm boondocking, I'm not expecting showers. It's camping.

2) Propane. We don't cook inside anyway. With cooking outside on a Coleman, a single 1# can lasts me three weekends anyway. So all my propane would go to the fridge, with a little for the furnace overnight. And it's got two huge cans. Not an issue for me.

3) Electricity. Ah, here we go. The fridge controller. Lights (LED). Water pump. I see all those as pretty minimal, especially with a few battery powered lanterns for lighting. Just make sure not to go when we'd want the AC or even exhaust fans going. Still, I worry about battery, and will until I actually have a few off-grid trips under my belt and develop a feel for what it takes to actually run out. Wish I had a second battery to switch to when the first is out.

4) Black/grey tanks. Big fear here is filling them up before we're done camping. I honestly don't know how close we've ever come. This is a concern that won't go away until I pony up for a See Level.

Oh, and 5) Site. I've been lucky in that all the sites we've had were just about level, and most of them paved.

So really, it's all in (3) and (4). Just gotta take the plunge and see what happens, I reckon.

[/quote]For #1 we sanitize the water system at the beginning of the season, and after that everything that touches it is filtered through an inline filter. The drinking water gets an additional pass through an NSF certified filter. The filters are only $10 and last a whole season.

For #4 I wouldn't worry too much. Even with the SeeLevel we still overflow on the grey. The sink just stops draining. In our previous trailer the shower would start to fill up, but the camplite seems to have a 1-way valve on the shower drain. If the black fills up you'll get a "blub blub" sound instead of a splash. Worst case scenario is you have to pull the trailer over to the dump prematurely.

[pinstriper]

Yeah, so it's really easy to just wave your hands and say "we sanitize the water system". From here it feels like "just go out back and dig up some diamonds".

I guess I need to start a "how the heck do you [sanitize | winterize] a fresh water system" series of posts.

[tinkeringtechie]

Yeah, so it's really easy to just wave your hands and say "we sanitize the water system". From here it feels like "just go out back and dig up some diamonds".

I guess I need to start a "how the heck do you [sanitize | winterize] a fresh water system" series of posts.

It's pretty easy. I think that's one of the few things that LL actually put in the manual. Basically you just put a little bleach in the fresh tank and fill it to the top. Then you open each faucet to get the lines filled with the solution. I leave it overnight this way and then drain the tank and flush with fresh water until it doesn't smell like bleach anymore. I do it while the hot water heater is empty and bypassed so I don't have to fill the whole heater with bleachy water.

[david]

[p]As tinkeringtechie noted, sanitizing the fresh water system is straightforward. Peggie Hall who ran a marine sanitation company recommends 1/2 cup of bleach for each 5 gallons of water. So with the 38 gallon tank on my 16TBS that is 4 cups or about one quart.

On boats it is a routine problem to have a rotten egg smell from the hot water system. It is caused by heat loving bacteria that converts sulfur compounds in the water to H2S. So if you have that problem, then do fill the hot water tank and all of the hot water piping with the bleach solution to kill the bacteria. Let sit overnight, drain and rinse.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I sanitize our boat and rv at the beginning of each season.[/p][p]
And don't worry too much about filling your black water tank. I bet we wouldn't fill ours unless we used it for more than a week.

And finally here is a tip as to how to manage your battery while off the grid. Use a decent multimeter that can measure voltage to at least 0.1 V. First check it against your TV's battery after it has sat overnight. It should read about 12.6 V which is what a fully charged 12V battery should read. Then calibrate your meter accordingly.

Then as you camp, check the voltage of your battery each day. 12.4 volts is about 3/4 full and 12.1 is about half. You should try not to discharge more than half routinely. But once in a while drawing down to 11.8 is ok to make it through the trip.

Take these voltage measurements with little or no current being drawn from the batteries, ie no water pump, furnace blower, etc running.

David
[/p]

[pinstriper]

Thanks, guys, that's specific enough to make me confident to attempt it.

[runningwriter]

In lieu of owning an expensive Honda generator, has anyone ever tried hooking up an inverter to the tow vehicle to supply a little 120v to the camper?  It would not be enough to run ac but might do for charging the battery after some refrigerator, lights and water pump usage.  It would take an 1800 watt inverter just to deliver 15 amps to the camper, right?  Idling a V8 pickup would not use too much fuel if only done as needed and with today's smog equipment, it will run cleaner than a typical generator and quieter too.

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/3661/thread" timestamp="1411138375" author="@dave"]In lieu of owning an expensive Honda generator, has anyone ever tried hooking up an inverter to the tow vehicle to supply a little 120v to the camper?  It would not be enough to run ac but might do for charging the battery after some refrigerator, lights and water pump usage.  It would take an 1800 watt inverter just to deliver 15 amps to the camper, right?  Idling a V8 pickup would not use too much fuel if only done as needed and with today's smog equipment, it will run cleaner than a typical generator and quieter too.[/quote]This is one possible method, but there will be energy lost by the inverter and then again by the trailer's converter. You can make the whole process much more efficient (and cheaper) by connecting the trailer battery directly to the tow vehicle with some beefy jumper cables.

[david]

I suspect that at idle your TV's alternator will only supply 30 or less DC amps to an inverter. So if you are drawing more than about 3 amps AC from the inverter- 360 watts, you are discharging the TV's battery. The trailer's 40 amp DC converter probably draws at least 5 amps AC.

Another idea that takes no additional equipment is to just hook up the 7 pin plug from the TV to the trailer and let the TV charge the battery directly with the engine running. But that connection typically will only supply 10 amps to the trailer. If you connect directly with heavy jumper cables as tinkeringtechie suggests, this can jump to about the 30 amp output of the TV's alternator and will charge a lot faster. You also won't run the risk of discharging the TV's battery as you might if you are powering an inverter as above.

As much as I hate generators at a campsite, a Honda EU2000i generator is probably the better solution. It can easily power the trailer's converter, but not the A/C or microwave simultaneously.

The best solution is to add more batteries so you don't have to charge them at all unless you stay in one place for more than a week. As I noted in the batteries, generator and solar panel thread, we typically use 10 amphours a day from the battery. Upgrading to two golf cart batteries would let us go more than  a week and still be more than 50% charged.

David

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/3667/thread" timestamp="1411145016" author="@david"] a Honda EU200i generator is probably the better solution. It can easily power the trailer's converter, but not the A/C or microwave simultaneously.

[/quote]If only they made a 200 watt version... I'd probably buy that if they sold it for less than $200 

[david]

I just edited my mistake. Unfortunately it didn't correct your quote  .

David