Grampa Kilt from BC Canada

[grampakilt]

Several years ago, I travelled from BC through the northern US, then crossed back into Ontario, where I had a weight distribution hitch installed on my 2010 JETTA TDI. On the return trip, I stopped by at the LL factory (then in Wakarusa) and picked up my 14DB. Incidentally, I purchased the trailer from a dealership in Mississippi via the internet. It was a very smooth transaction right down to the Mississippi paper interim licence ready for me at the factory.

With the addition of a sway bar, the trailer pulls smoothly with the Jetta although diesel mileage drops by about 40% especially with a headwind! Still it's much better than a typical pick-up pulling a trailer. The tandem axles are a definite plus for my towing set-up.  

Most of my upgrades are now standard CL features--bigger TV, thick vinyl tile floor, electric trailer jack (Husky) and dual propane tanks with cover. On the horizon is adding SeeLevel tank sensors and monitor, a handwashing faucet station below the shower handle, and attaching to the back bumper, the 5x5 inch-vinyl-fence-post-hack to store the sewer hose. About the back bumper, I also want to attach an aluminum box to carry my extra gas and generator. I think my original attachment plan would have been OK. But with all posts about needing bumper reinforcement, I think I have an effective/inexpensve DIY solution that doesn't require a length of aluminum 2x4 and aluminum welding. And it will make installing the box easier. I'll be sure to post pictures once I'm done.

GK

[pinstriper]

Isn't the limit on those something like 1,000# ?

[billmoore]

According to google, it is 2000# unless it has the DSG automatic transmission (which drops it to #1000). With a trailer that has a dry weight over 3000# and a GVWR around 5000#, that has got to be the worst case of overload I've seen on here yet.

Me thinks we're being trolled...

[billmoore]

Looks like I'm wrong about the trolling: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=390908

Scary...

[admin]

@grampakilt, is there something we are missing here? The TDI should not be able to handle such a large trailer. As other have said, best case you are 1000 pounds over weight.
As a possible explanation I've seen where US tow ratings are lower than listed in other countries such as Canada. I still don't see any tow rating on the TDI but perhaps he has information that is different than here in the states?

[pinstriper]

When the trailer outweighs the tow vehicle, you've made an unsound decision, IMO. WDH on a unibody sedan ? Ooof.

[hogtyd]

In Europ the TDI has a 3,300+ lb tow rating...albeit with lower tongue weights (and lower max. speeds) then typical US trailer configurations. With the WDH, the OP is probably within those limits. Not everything has to be a 3/4 truck.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/jetta/60607/tow-car-year-2013-volkswagen-jetta

Graham

[grampakilt]

Grampa Kilt replies to unsafe towing with a Jetta TDI. Here is my defense, if you will.

I did considerable research before setting up my Jetta as a 14DB TV. If you are open to the story, read on.

Three things started to process for me; concern over another vehicle cost, a hunch that to buy another vehicle (ie pick-up/SUV) just to tow a trailer was just smoke and mirrors and the reality in the UK and EU where the culture is that your car is your TV. It didn't help that tow ratings over there are significantly higher that in NA. For example, on the drivers side door frame of the Euro Jetta/Golf, a 1500 KG (3300 LB) tow rating is written. Now why is that? The Euro Jetta must have larger brakes, bigger radiator, stronger frame, etc. Nope, not according to those who look into those kinds of things. Hitches? Well yes. Westphalia is contracted to make OED type 'tow bar' (Queen's english for hitch) for VW cars and the venerable PK Jones out of the UK copies them for the aftermarket. The design is quite different than any Class 1 2000 LB aftermarket NA hitch. Obviously, it has to be to handle a 150 KG hitch wt. And it's a DIY bitch to install, I'm told! I came within a whisker of ordering one from PKJ when another part of my story happened. Lately, I understand a US company is importing them for, may I say, the discerning car tower.

Commentators with more savvy than me also believe other things are at play. Firstly, they say there is a strong bias in NA that if you tow, you need a p/u or SUV. That wasn't always the case. In the nostalgic days of the 1950's-70's, the family car, back end grinding on the turnpike, towed those ubiquitous turquoise Shastas. Then in the 70's, the middle class became richer, the TTs supersized and the car frailer but lighter (unibody). It was easy to believe the marketers who said we needed to buy a pick-up truck if you wanted to tow (really? but true if you're towing a monster) and 4 wheeling into the great backwoods of America (obviously true if that's how you want to get there). 

But back across the pond, that seed change never took place. The modern car remains the TV of choice on a continent where full-size pick-ups are rare and if a pick-up is to be bought, it's the Ford Ranger (which doesn't exactly win tow awards).

A 2nd factor to consider, the commentators say. Euro (and in Canada thankfully) litigiousness and settlement awards are world's apart from those in the US. No manufacturer of cars offered for sale in NA is going to touch Euro tow ratings with a ten foot pole! It simply is not worth it when there's a F150 to sell. Thus, my NA Jetta is rated to tow 1000 LB, but the VW literature goes on to recommend towing nothing (for goodness sake, if you want to tow, just buy a Toureg [ugh] some owners have been told).

With my decision made to import a Euro tow bar, I next looked into TTs that would come in with a projected loaded weight around the 3300 LB mark. What I found was really disappointing. Sure, there were offerings around the 2000 LB mark, but every new one already had rust on the undercarriage and the interiors were boring, ugly and inefficient. Not so caravans (British for TTs) manufactured over there. Available are 16-18 footers, very airy, efficient and UL; all responses to a car TV public. Thankfully, some NA manufacturers are starting see the 'lite' as I was about to find out. 

LL is one of only 2 all-aluminum manufacturers in NA (the other is the Alto made by Safari Condo in Quebec: a truly magnificent TT, but at nearly 2x the cost of CLs similarly equipped...) I was ready to pull the trigger on the 11FK, but my spouse was grossed out by wet baths. The 14DB saved our marriage! My 2014 comes in with a dry wt of 2425 LB, leaving me about 1000 LB to load, an easy carry for the hitch I would eventually have installed. That's the story of the next paragraph.

Just before the Euro hitch purchase, I came across an Airstream dealer (largest in Canada, and among the largest in NA) who, since the 1960s, has never stopped installing and fine tuning hitches on all sorts of cars, small/large SUVs, trucks, a few Minis and...even a tandem bicycle pulling a 19' Airstream (to demostrate WD but alas, only good for travelling abandoned runways). When I learned that the company had installed hitches on well over 100 Jetta's alone, and has used a 2010 Jetta to deliver up to 20' Airstreams and other TT brands to customers, I had to find out more. The original owner has since passed, of course, but his son, who is now president, became a professional mechanical engineer to add credibility and even more expertise to their hitch work. In talking with him, he calls the 2010 (and several year's previous) Jetta TDI the best small car TV (in the minivan category, it's the Dodge Caravan, very punny...) for several reasons: torque and independent rear suspension (IRS). (In 2011, VW cheapened the Jetta considerably including losing the IRS. After many complaints, I understand independent suspension returned in 2015.)

In designing hitches, the fellow has taken into consideration torque on the vehicle frame (inc unibodies), suspension, tires, engine power, gear ratios, you name it. He would say what makes Euro scale TVing even more safe than in the motherland is appropriately designed weight distribution systems and electric brakes, all properly tuned up. Problems with his Jetta, particularly the DSG? Not one. Routine maintenance on the transmission has revealed nothing to indicate that the vehicle tows 'for a living'. I can concur. The president, Andy Thompson, of CanAM RV Centre is a regular contributor to RV Lifestyle magazine. From this link, one can get to many other articles about why I did what I did-- http://www.canamrv.ca/towing-expertise

 If you want the scary details of my Jetta hitch...there's a heavy bar that passes in between the IRS gap and is welded to the frame. The receiver holds an Elite EAZ lift weight distribution (WD) system rated at 600 lbs tongue weight not because I'll tow that much, but because its the lowest rated one they make. (Andy feels Elite make the best product.) With WD, my car rides level less than 1/4" lower from totally unloaded, is very stable with sudden side maneuvers, has enough power to ascend hills and keep up with traffic (but I generally keep the unit around 50-55 MPH because I'm too cheap to spend more money on diesel) and, if I want to, the electric trailer brakes will stop the car, not the other way around.

One more item of interest. In Canada, we have this iconic and somewhat bombastic environmentalist and TV host called David Suzuki. He took CanAM RV's delivery Jetta across Canada towing a 19' Airstream trailer with a dry weight of 3900 lbs! He made a documentary out of it, calling it a 'green' journey because of the reduced emissions from the Jetta compared to the usual pick-up/SUV gas hogs. Just sayin'.

It seems to me that all this comes down to what message a person chooses to believe from duplicitous multi-national car manufacturers. Is it the one from Europe, where not to put forward a competitive yet safe tow rating for a car is the kiss of death for sales or, the one from the US and Canada, where car tow ratings are significantly de-rated (ridiculously so in VW's case) in the face of strong truck sales? GK

[billmoore]

The typical family car of the 1950's to 1970's was body-on-frame, rear wheel drive, solid rear axle, a curb weight between 4500 and 5500 lbs, and powered by a V8 with a displacement of anywhere from 4.5 to 7 liters.  Much like a modern pickup...

[grampakilt]

billmoore is correct about family cars of yore. These tanks also pulled very heavy TTs with the rear ends always bottoming out (no WD) and often no electric brakes.

My point, poorly stated I suppose, was not to compare cars but attitude. The advent of unibody construction happened at the same time as the rise of a wealthy middle class. I was a great time for the Big 3 to convince the masses that they needed another vehicle to tow. And it worked marvelously. In a remarkably short time, the idea of that a family car could be used as a TV was relegated to a bygone era if not labelled dangerous.

So what makes it OK now for unibody type cars to become TVs? It's people who question quite arbitrary tow ratings, Malcolm Gladwell "Outlier" types. It's also LL type TTs, WD and electric brakes all matched to the kind of vehicle being used for towing. GK

[hogtyd]

Not to get off topic, but before buying my 4Runner I looked into getting a 94-96 Buick Roadmaster Wagon (or Cadillac DeVille) with the tow package (7,000lb rating) and LT1 V8. Ultimately the 4WD capability of the 4Runner was more useful for my needs, but I still think it would have been a great TV setup.  

[pinstriper]

This whole issue will come down to what you choose to believe. I've looked at the evidence and think my set-up is OK for my car and is safe. GK

This is self-contradictory.

You can't say at the same time that it is a matter of choosing what to believe - ie. confirmation bias, and also say that you made an objective decision based on evidence.

Well, you can SAY it. But it is still ridiculous, whether you acknowledge it or not.

I stand by the assertion that a unibody (ie. not body-on-frame) that is the same or less than the trailer weight is playing loose with safety. Which is why no vendor with anything to actually lose will stand behind it. The brakes, transmission, suspension, tires, wheels, etc. are not put together with towing 3500# in mind. It just isn't.

You can choose to run on the other side of the margin of safety, and blame lawyers, American attitudes, or whatever satisfies your conscience. And the risk may never materialize, leading you to conclude that you were right. But you are sharing the road with others, and the risk you assume isn't only borne by you.

You might also ask Dave Suzuki how he feels about the falsified environmental benefits of the VW TDI emissions.

[whoofit]

Wow! Thought I was adventurous towing the 16DB with an Escape Ecoboost. You took it to a whole new level of crazy!

I just wanted to add that there are unibody vehicles that are OK to use a WDH with. If you look under them the pinch welds are large and beefy  and done purposefully. Not sure about the Jetta but our new secondary TV, the 2016 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk, is done that way. As a matter of fact Jeep requires you to run WDH above 3500 lbs to stay in spec. of it's 4500 tow capacity and 450 lb tongue weight rating.

It's also true that the only difference between a 2000lb Cherokee and a 4500 lb Cherokee is the V6 engine and increased cooling that is fitted with the tow package vs V6 without tow package. There is some electronic sway control programming in there as well. Brakes, bearings, trannys are all identical. Tires are rated higher though too.

So I guess what I'm saying is this. The differences may not be as huge from a structural standpoint but there are subtle differences. That and there is no questioning what Grampa rocks under that kilt....

[pinstriper]

Whoofit, that's a good point and I was really talking about a unibody sedan. Plus of course the other components of a sedan being unadequate has nothing to do with unibody, but that's sorta how my post reads.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]FWIW I towed a smaller RPOD, 2750# ready to camp, with a 4WD Honda Pilot. The Pilot is unibody, rated at 4500# towing, and I used an E2 WDH. I was leery of the WDH/Unibody combo, but never had a problem.
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