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Internal Surge Protector

Started by tinkeringtechie, May 19, 2014, 12:29:51 PM

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westom

#60
March 12, 2015, 01:33:30 AM
[quote timestamp="1426111240" source="/post/7719/thread" author="@charliem"]

[font size="3"]Having followed this great discussion I see most of the questions have been addressed by others while I was typing. ...
[ol type="decimal"][li][font size="3"]If you dry camp all the time with a good generator, or none at all, you don't need surge protection. ...[/font][/li][/ol]
[p][/p][/font] [/quote]

[font size="3"]1)  If a generator needs a protector, that protector must be significantly expensive.  Best is to spend but a little more on a better generator that does not create spikes and has superior voltage regulation.

2) Destructive surges enter to hunt destructively for earth ground.  For example, a direct lightning strike far down the steet can be hunting for earth destructively via household appliances or the RV's.  If it is not earthed by a 'whole house' protector at the service entrance. Never assume a protector will somehow block or absorb a surge.   Protection is always about the path a surge current takes to get to earth.  Voltage is only high and destructive when someone tried to block that currrent.

Best protection for the house is a properly earthed 'whole house' protector that costs about $1 per protected appliance.  Since lightning is 20,000 amps, then this protector is typically rated for 50,000 amps.  This superior solution is defined by THE most critical component in lightning protection.  Singe point earth ground.

6) Surge protectors are only for one type anomaly - a massive current transient.  However other devices that operate completely different for other anomalies are also called surge protectors.  The above 'whole house' protector remains inert until 120 VAC well exceeds 330 volts.  So it does nothing for a 160 volt overvoltage.  However a Progressive may disconnect power when it exceeds maybe 130 volts.  That isnot surge proetction.  But the expression 'surge protector' is often subjective and deceptive.

8) Low voltage does not harm electronics.  But it can be hard on motorized appliances. For example, normal voltage for electronics can even be when incandescent bulbs dim to 50% intensity.  Not harmful to electronics.  But may indicate a serious human safety issue.  Low voltage (brownout) is not a surge.  But a Progressive surge protector may disconnecxt AC power when it drops below 100 volts - a brownout.

9) A missing safety ground can be detected by a Progressive protector.  But nothing can detect a missing earth ground.  Only inspection can confirm proper earthing exists.  Safety ground is essential to human safety.  Earth ground must also exist for a surge protecxtor to do surge protection.  Many RV surge protectors, if not connectded at the pole (within feet), can be too far to be effective surge protectors.  Some Progressive surge protectors do not do surge protection; actually only do overvoltage and undervoltage protection. Carefully read its specifications.

BTW no surge protector can possibly protect from a surge by disconnecting.  Will that millimeter gap stop what three miles of sky could not?   Of course not.

10) Neutral hot reversal is not destructive to appliances. But, in rare cases, may threaten human life. This polarity reversal is easily detected.

11) Protection even from direct lighting strikes is routine. But only if a surge protector (that is actually a surge protector) is located at the service entrance with a low impedance (within feet) connection to earth ground. But again, a lightning strike is  typically 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector must be 50,000 amps to have no protector failure and appliance damage.

[/font]

daplumbr

#61
March 12, 2015, 08:51:54 PM
Not sure if I've posted this before, but it doesn't hurt to post it again. This article is source of accurate and current information about lighting protection in electrical systems. As a result of this info, I've purchased a Midnight Solar MNSPD300AC to install on my Progressive Industries EMSHW30C. When I get to the point of installing a solar system, I'll also install the DC version of the Midnight Solar. Over the past 3 years, I've lost $1000s in appliances and electronics to surges and lightning strikes at my home and my cabin and learned the expensive way about the critical importance of single point earth ground.

http://www.solar-electric.com/solar-system-lightning-protection.html/


whoofit

#62
March 13, 2015, 02:43:25 AM
NAWS has a great forum. I use the Midnight Solar Classic CC with my off grid system and it rocks. BB there on that forum helped me countless times learning about solar back in the day.

shovelhead

#63
March 13, 2015, 06:52:35 PM
[quote timestamp="1426028281" source="/post/7648/thread" author="@surfsup"]I'm thinking of ordering this same protector. Either that or take a chance on the portable unit secured with a good bicycle lock?[/quote]Is that a big problem... I hate a thief.   I have the external surge protector. I guess I should get the bike lock as well....
Dave

charliem

#64
March 13, 2015, 07:33:26 PM
[font size="3"]Check out a few boxes before you buy a lock. A bicycle lock may be too big. I use a padlock. I'll take a picture when I can get around.
[/font]
Any 20 minute job can be stretched
to a week with proper planning

Charlie
NW Florida

jtelles3993

#65
March 13, 2015, 08:51:55 PM
Shovel, I'm thinking now, just a good medium size padlock. Charlie said earlier that most sites' power boxes can be closed and locked. I wasn't aware of that when I posted. I'll also have a piece of chain just in case I have to secure it to the pole. If we leave the site for any length of time I'll probably disconnect and stow it..

whoofit

#66
March 16, 2015, 02:30:57 PM
Going internal w/monitor. Ordered today. Might be inviting lightening into the trailer but the more the merrier....

jtelles3993

#67
March 17, 2015, 12:10:24 AM
Quote from: @whoofit" source="/post/7915/thread" timestamp="1426527057Going internal w/monitor. Ordered today. Might be inviting lightening into the trailer but the more the merrier....

Yea, that's going to be a cool set up. The main reason I decided to go portable is because when I run on my generator & inverter, I won't need or want the surge protector.

whoofit

#68
March 17, 2015, 09:37:48 AM
[quote source="/post/7953/thread" timestamp="1426561824" author="@surfsup"][quote source="/post/7915/thread" timestamp="1426527057" author="@whoofit"]Going internal w/monitor. Ordered today. Might be inviting lightening into the trailer but the more the merrier....[/quote]Yea, that's going to be a cool set up. The main reason I decided to go portable is because when I run on my generator & inverter, I won't need or want the surge protector.[/quote][p]You know I almost skipped the monitor, Surfsup, but it seems the only way to bypass the device when on the genny or when it fails for any reason really.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I do fear those communal pedestals where two campers share a box. You can't lock them out of the box or not allow the box to close fully when you share them like that. They have every right being at it and spending time at it when you are not around. The cables can be cut no matter the locking method and a new connector spliced back on when they are somewhere else 100 miles away.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I've had some pretty unsavory neighbors in the last several years. We have had things just walk away. There goes my paranoia again I suppose but I want it locked in the trailer. I like being able to read any errors. I don't really care about doing so in the trailer vs at the pole. I already own a real slick battery/charging/SOC calculating monitor made for boats that is much more useful in that role than the Progressive monitor could ever be.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Truth be told I find the Progressive monitor sort of an eyesore. 
[/p]

jtelles3993

#69
March 17, 2015, 11:30:14 AM
I'll be as careful as I can.. I'm already looking at a wire mod to have it next to the trailer and not at the box..

whoofit

#70
March 17, 2015, 11:40:56 AM
I think that'll help alot. I'd like to see pics when done!

For anyone reading here that doesn't know I figured I'd add some useful info. The hardwire models without the remote display (LCHS?) are now capable of accepting a remote switch to bypass the microprocessor logic board. This allows no monitoring but still allows bypassing the computerized component of the hardwired models without remote display. MOV surge protection is still active.

So as far as the most sensitive components of the device goes they can be bypassed completely until a new board is sourced or on a genny. Makes me more comfortable mounting this in a shoe horn location. I'm also adding twist lock connectors for easy service if ever needed,
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