SAY IT AIN'T SO.! Toy hauler cargo doors made with WOOD????

[vrvinmo]

My VRV has a ramp door and the door finish is bubbling through the painted aluminum. Mfg. says it is a challenger door and the bubbling is corrosion caused by dissimilar metals reacting to each other. They also said there is in fact wood in the door. Good news is they just picked up my trailer, hauled it all the way back to IN from MO for free to fix it.  Here is a pic of the bubbling down at the bottom of the ramp door.  




ramp issue by oneboltzfan, on Flickr

[dh50]

[p]VRVINMO,[/p][p]"Wife' here with thanks for sharing this pic (yikes!).  But how very good that ATC is backing up their product with such integrity in your circumstance.  If the cargo door's manufacturer is indeed Challenger Door, then kudos would seem in order for them as well.  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Question:  In your opinion and experience, is Livin Lite similarly backing up their product, be it cargo doors or otherwise?   While we all hope for such, is it realistic to expect that ATC's excellent warranty and service, as demonstrated in your situation, will also be found with Livin Lite?  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Out of curiosity, what is the relationship, if any, between ATC and Livin Lite?  Asking since both share the 'VRV' label and you post on LL site, though your VRV mfr. be ATC.  Something tells me Thor comes into play here.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Thankyou for all feedback.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Oh, almost forgot....one more important question:  Generally speaking, if a TV's towing capabilities are insufficient for the coach, how specifically will this be manifested?  [/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p]

[david]

gwbushhog:

To your last question:

1. Sagging TV rear end
2. Sway
3. Premature engine wear
4. General white knuckles feel

David

[pinstriper]

5. Fiery death crash.

[vrvinmo]

[quote source="/post/6023/thread" timestamp="1421346741" author="@gwbushhog"][p]VRVINMO,[/p][p]"Wife' here with thanks for sharing this pic (yikes!).  But how very good that ATC is backing up their product with such integrity in your circumstance.  If the cargo door's manufacturer is indeed Challenger Door, then kudos would seem in order for them as well.  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Question:  In your opinion and experience, is Livin Lite similarly backing up their product, be it cargo doors or otherwise?   While we all hope for such, is it realistic to expect that ATC's excellent warranty and service, as demonstrated in your situation, will also be found with Livin Lite?  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Out of curiosity, what is the relationship, if any, between ATC and Livin Lite?  Asking since both share the 'VRV' label and you post on LL site, though your VRV mfr. be ATC.  Something tells me Thor comes into play here.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Thankyou for all feedback.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Oh, almost forgot....one more important question:  Generally speaking, if a TV's towing capabilities are insufficient for the coach, how specifically will this be manifested?  [/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][/quote][p]Being on a Livin Lite site and not having any personal experience with livin lite, I will not say how they will handle their warranty claims. I will say that ATC goes above and beyond with no questions asked. It would pretty much be impossible to do better than what they do. I will likely buy my next camper from them for this reason alone.  Anyone can sell you something once, but will they take care of you after they have your $$$ is huge in my book and hard to find these days.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Their is no relationship between ATC and Livin Lite whatsoever.  The person who holds the patent on the VRV flip out beds and used to work at Livin Lite started his own company VRVToyhauler  Inc.  He has ATC manufacture his VRV's.  I have also seen some ATC VRV's being sold online by others too, so they basically manufacture for whomever I guess.[/p][p]
[/p][p]As far as towing goes. It's been my experience you will know as soon as you drive away towing if something is not right. Generally, if everything is okay, you will not have white knuckles and pouring sweat.  If you do, you need a bigger tow vehicle.  From my personal experience, your biggest challenge is going to be tongue weight and payload.  Your Ram, like my F150 is less than 1200 #'s payload. I'm very interested in how your truck will tow your VRV, because I want to go bigger myself, but don't want a bigger truck.  FWIW I use the Andersen WDH because of how light it is and how it decreases my Tongue weight.  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Feel like I'm starting to ramble, so I'll shut up.
[/p]

[dh50]

[quote source="/post/6025/thread" timestamp="1421372822" author="@pinstriper"]5. Fiery death crash.


[span style="font-size:10pt;"]'Wife' here white-knucklin' and haven't yet taken delivery!   One can only hope that at sag, sway, smoking engine, heart palpitations and/or cardiac arrest......we would pull over first.  Geeeez!!!!   Any other indicators, Sunshine? [/span][/quote]

[dh50]

[quote timestamp="1421346741" source="/post/6023/thread" author="@gwbushhog"]

[/quote]

[dh50]

[quote source="/post/6027/thread" timestamp="1421374711" author="@vrvinmo"][quote source="/post/6023/thread" timestamp="1421346741" author="@gwbushhog"][p]VRVINMO,[/p][p]"Wife' here with thanks for sharing this pic (yikes!).  But how very good that ATC is backing up their product with such integrity in your circumstance.  If the cargo door's manufacturer is indeed Challenger Door, then kudos would seem in order for them as well.  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Question:  In your opinion and experience, is Livin Lite similarly backing up their product, be it cargo doors or otherwise?   While we all hope for such, is it realistic to expect that ATC's excellent warranty and service, as demonstrated in your situation, will also be found with Livin Lite?  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Out of curiosity, what is the relationship, if any, between ATC and Livin Lite?  Asking since both share the 'VRV' label and you post on LL site, though your VRV mfr. be ATC.  Something tells me Thor comes into play here.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Thankyou for all feedback.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Oh, almost forgot....one more important question:  Generally speaking, if a TV's towing capabilities are insufficient for the coach, how specifically will this be manifested?  [/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][/quote][p]Being on a Livin Lite site and not having any personal experience with livin lite, I will not say how they will handle their warranty claims. I will say that ATC goes above and beyond with no questions asked. It would pretty much be impossible to do better than what they do. I will likely buy my next camper from them for this reason alone.  Anyone can sell you something once, but will they take care of you after they have your $$$ is huge in my book and hard to find these days.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Their is no relationship between ATC and Livin Lite whatsoever.  The person who holds the patent on the VRV flip out beds and used to work at Livin Lite started his own company VRVToyhauler  Inc.  He has ATC manufacture his VRV's.  I have also seen some ATC VRV's being sold online by others too, so they basically manufacture for whomever I guess.[/p][p]
[/p][p]As far as towing goes. It's been my experience you will know as soon as you drive away towing if something is not right. Generally, if everything is okay, you will not have white knuckles and pouring sweat.  If you do, you need a bigger tow vehicle.  From my personal experience, your biggest challenge is going to be tongue weight and payload.  Your Ram, like my F150 is less than 1200 #'s payload. I'm very interested in how your truck will tow your VRV, because I want to go bigger myself, but don't want a bigger truck.  FWIW I use the Andersen WDH because of how light it is and how it decreases my Tongue weight.  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Feel like I'm starting to ramble, so I'll shut up.
[/p][/quote]VRINMO, Thank you for the 'ramble', much appreciated!  You have been very helpful, along with others, and we will keep you posted on our TV's performance once hitched, if ever we get the TH!  Take care!

[pinstriper]

[quote source="/post/6030/thread" timestamp="1421379887" author="@gwbushhog"][quote source="/post/6025/thread" timestamp="1421372822" author="@pinstriper"]5. Fiery death crash.


[span style="font-size:10pt;"]'Wife' here white-knucklin' and haven't yet taken delivery!   One can only hope that at sag, sway, smoking engine, heart palpitations and/or cardiac arrest......we would pull over first.  Geeeez!!!!   Any other indicators, Sunshine? [/span][/quote][/quote][p]Here's my "I was wearing an onion on my belt" story.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I once bought a few tons of hay from a local farmer. He very helpfully offered to let me borrow his flatbed trailer to haul it. Said he'd have it all loaded when I came to pick it up.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Now, my prior experience with this had been rental center flatbeds and pulling out into the field. One guy drives, the other walks along and tosses the bails onto the trailer. Pro tip: you want to be the one driving in this partnership. Anyway, I always kept it to around 50 bales. Figure 1,000# for the trailer, and somewhere shy of 2 tons of hay at 32 bales/ton. Well within the 5700# rating of my Ford Ranger.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Well, this farmer, he had a REAL trailer. This thing was made from old railroad....ehm...rails. Trailer itself was probably 2500-3000#. [/p][p]
[/p][p]Oh, and he put 90 bales on her. Fool that I was, I didn't put a stop to and and offload half the hay. So, I was pulling something around 10,000# with a vehicle rated a touch over half that.[/p][p]
[/p][p]First, I couldn't get the thing to move, until I threw her in 4WD low. I crawled home at 15mph for the 2 mile run home. About halfway there, the road has a little dip, goes down maybe 15' and back up. This is when I came to realize that the trailer was in control, not me. It was bouncing and bucking like a porpoise, and pushing me along, and frankly, I had just about no control and no choice but to hold on and hope. Turning the wheel would have meant a jackknife. Hitting the brakes would also have, as the wheels would have locked up and I would have lost rolling traction. My hay loader's eyes were as big as dinner plates, and we both undid the seat belts in case we had to jump for it. She slowed back down to under 15 mph on the up grade, and I kept it under 10 mph the rest of the way. [/p][p]
[/p][p]The above is an extreme overload example, but it firmly imprinted on me the feeling of what happens, and the key takeaway is this: by the time you realize you've lost control, you've already lost control, and what happens from there is what we math majors call the "undefined" part of the "problem".[/p][p]
[/p][p]I got lucky. Damned lucky. I'll never mess with overloading, or driving too fast, or even approaching the edge again. I want to not only be under the limits, but WELL under. 20% under. More is better.[/p][p]
[/p]

[dh50]

Pinstriper,
Thanks for sharing the context behind the 'fiery death crash' remark; now makes more sense.  We'll be sure to haul no hay, just toys!  

[dhrvcenter]

As a Livin LIte dealer, I would like to chime in on this.  The wood was a surprise to us all.  Please don't blame the dealer.  We found out the hard way as well.  Now, I'm very clear that there is no wood in the primary construction of the trailer.  Just in the ramp door.  The dealer is in a tough spot.  If the unit has been titled, even if it hasn't been used, it is a used unit.  It can't be sold as new.  That is regulated by the state.  
[span style="font-size:10pt;"]

It is a proven door that has been in the industry for years.  If you ever do have problems, the door can easily be replaced.  It is nothing like removing a floor, wall, or roof.  So, Livin Lite still maintains the solid structure of the main trailer.  I do agree that they were wrong in stating "no wood" in their toy haulers.  We looked like idots when we discovered it. [/span]

However, it is still about the best unit built out there.  

[jtelles3993]

As a Livin LIte dealer, I would like to chime in on this.  The wood was a surprise to us all.  Please don't blame the dealer.  We found out the hard way as well.  Now, I'm very clear that there is no wood in the primary construction of the trailer.  Just in the ramp door.  The dealer is in a tough spot.  If the unit has been titled, even if it hasn't been used, it is a used unit.  It can't be sold as new.  That is regulated by the state.  
[span style="font-size:10pt;"]

It is a proven door that has been in the industry for years.  If you ever do have problems, the door can easily be replaced.  It is nothing like removing a floor, wall, or roof.  So, Livin Lite still maintains the solid structure of the main trailer.  I do agree that they were wrong in stating "no wood" in their toy haulers.  We looked like idots when we discovered it. [/span]

However, it is still about the best unit built out there.  

dhrvcenter, good to see you guys monitoring this site. We're looking fwd to picking up our 21RBS next week, see you then!

Alex & Linda

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/6212/thread" timestamp="1422031247" author="@dhrvcenter"]As a Livin LIte dealer, I would like to chime in on this.  The wood was a surprise to us all.  Please don't blame the dealer.  We found out the hard way as well.  Now, I'm very clear that there is no wood in the primary construction of the trailer.  Just in the ramp door.  The dealer is in a tough spot.  If the unit has been titled, even if it hasn't been used, it is a used unit.  It can't be sold as new.  That is regulated by the state.  
[span style="font-size:10pt;"]

It is a proven door that has been in the industry for years.  If you ever do have problems, the door can easily be replaced.  It is nothing like removing a floor, wall, or roof.  So, Livin Lite still maintains the solid structure of the main trailer.  I do agree that they were wrong in stating "no wood" in their toy haulers.  We looked like idots when we discovered it. [/span]

However, it is still about the best unit built out there.  [/quote]I think this is a very fair assessment, but I think everyone would be better off if they included some kind of disclaimer about where wood products are used. They already have a disclaimer at the bottom of their site that includes some of this:

* Obviously, the "entire" camper is not aluminum. The vast majority of the main construction components of this camper are made of aluminum and composites, which backs up our claim of being 98% recyclable. There are steps and stabilizer jacks made of steel; composite wall and ceiling boards; and plastics used in trim, tanks and bath areas.

They might as well state that there is wood in the door or the countertop because folks will find out sooner or later.

[baldboy]

[quote source="/post/6216/thread" timestamp="1422054082" author="@tinkeringtechie"][quote source="/post/6212/thread" timestamp="1422031247" author="@dhrvcenter"]As a Livin LIte dealer, I would like to chime in on this.  The wood was a surprise to us all.  Please don't blame the dealer.  We found out the hard way as well.  Now, I'm very clear that there is no wood in the primary construction of the trailer.  Just in the ramp door.  The dealer is in a tough spot.  If the unit has been titled, even if it hasn't been used, it is a used unit.  It can't be sold as new.  That is regulated by the state.  
[span style="font-size:10pt;"]

It is a proven door that has been in the industry for years.  If you ever do have problems, the door can easily be replaced.  It is nothing like removing a floor, wall, or roof.  So, Livin Lite still maintains the solid structure of the main trailer.  I do agree that they were wrong in stating "no wood" in their toy haulers.  We looked like idots when we discovered it. [/span]

However, it is still about the best unit built out there.  [/quote]I think this is a very fair assessment, but I think everyone would be better off if they included some kind of disclaimer about where wood products are used. They already have a disclaimer at the bottom of their site that includes some of this:

* Obviously, the "entire" camper is not aluminum. The vast majority of the main construction components of this camper are made of aluminum and composites, which backs up our claim of being 98% recyclable. There are steps and stabilizer jacks made of steel; composite wall and ceiling boards; and plastics used in trim, tanks and bath areas.

They might as well state that there is wood in the door or the countertop because folks will find out sooner or later.

[/quote]


Agreed!  They should mention that there is wood in all the places they put it, including a sheet of plywood under the shower...  There really isn't a reason to be deceptive, it's still a great rig!

[tinkeringtechie]

Agreed!  They should mention that there is wood in all the places they put it, including a sheet of plywood under the shower...  There really isn't a reason to be deceptive, it's still a great rig!

Or my preferred course of action: DON'T USE WOOD 

But do one or the other. Keep using it and be honest, or stop using it.