Winterization 2016-17

[david]

[p]I know that this has been discussed thoroughly last year, the year before, etc. but we have some new members, and some have moved north and well some need reminding. Since I just finished winterizing our CL 16TBS, I thought I would describe the two, well three most popular winterization schemes: draining, blowing and RV antifreeze flushing. Since I use the draining routine, I will start there:[/p][p]
[/p][p]First dump your grey and black water tanks. It doesn't matter if you leave a few gallons in. They will freeze but no harm will come. Then most LLs have three drain petcocks on the port side of the camper- hot, cold and water tank. Open them and let the water start draining. Open all of the inside taps to let them vent. This year I pulled the zinc anode on the water heater, mostly so I could see how much life was left, but it isn't absolutely necessary as the hot water petcock drains the water heater just fine. It takes a 1-1/16 socket.[/p][p]
[/p][p]After hot and cold stop draining, open the strainer on the water pump and dump the water inside and leave it off. Disconnect the discharge fitting (use channel lock pliers) and run the pump for 10 seconds to blow itself dry. Open the hot water heater bypass valve for a second to drain the valve and then close. Reconnect all of the plumbing.[/p][p]
[/p][p]For the toilet, disconnect the supply tubing to the toilet flush valve and then depress the two tabs to pull it out at the back of the toilet. Then blow from the inlet while pushing the flush button to get the water out of it. If you don't do this, it will freeze and ruin it. As added insurance I pour a little RV antifreeze in the inlet and blow it through. Then hook it all back up.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Pour a cup of RV antifreeze in the sinks to fill the trap, a little in the toilet and a quart or so in the shower to flush its trap. Every year I forget the outside shower, and I did as well this year, but it hasn't broken so far, so......[/p][p]
[/p][p]That's it. To commission next spring, just fill the water tank and run each tap until you get good flow from each of them.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The blowing method is exactly the same, but you hook up a compressor to each tap to blow down the water in the lines. But LL designed the system to be self draining, so the blow down is not necessary but won't hurt anything. I would still disconnect the plumbing to the water pump and let it blow itself dry as there is a check valve that won't let air/water go backwards.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The RV antifreeze flush method starts the same with draining. Then unhook the fresh water supply fitting to the pump and hook up a length of tubing with a hose clamp that will go into a jug of RV antifreeze. Bypass the water heater if you have the valves installed by opening the bypass valve and shutting the supply and return to the water heater. LL installed these valves on some campers but not all. If you don't have the bypass valves, you can install a kit from Camping World or you can bypass the heater with a length of tubing and some hose clamps. It is essential that you do this, otherwise it will take an additional 6 gallons of antifreeze and be a bear to flush out in the spring.[/p][p]
[/p][p]So with the pump taking suction from a jug of antifreeze, open each tap and let it run until you see a strong pink color. Do this for hot and cold taps. Hold the flush valve open on the toilet until you see pink in the bowl. It will take 2-3 gallons of antifreeze to flush them all.[/p][p]
[/p][p]By doing this you displace all of the water (well it is minimal actually) with antifreeze. You will also have flushed the traps and the toilet flush valve as described in the drain method above.[/p][p]
[/p][p]To commission in the spring, fill the tank with fresh water and flush all of the taps until you get clear water with no antifreeze smell. Set the hot water bypass valves back to normal after flushing.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Which method is best? Hard to say. I know that the drain method works and is fairly easy. I have used the antifreeze flush method on boats where the water system is usually not self draining, so I know that method works as well. The antifreeze flush method does give you a positive indication of antifreeze out each tap and also handles the toilet flush valve. So either way is fine. The blowing method is just a more positive variation on the drain method.[/p][p]
[/p][p]A word about RV antifreeze as some of you know that engine antifreeze is toxic. Ethylene glycol which is the main component of engine antifreeze will kill you. Dogs have died from drinking a cup full left on the ground. But RV antifreeze is propylene glycol and that extra carbon atom somehow makes it safe for humans (and dogs). But it does leave an unpleasant taste and smell if not flushed properly.[/p][p]
[/p][p]So, good luck with your winter.[/p][p]
[/p][p]David[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p]

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Good write up, David. Getting to be that time of year again for all those not in Florida. Glad you included the toilet valve because that's often overlooked and is a guaranteed freeze and break happening. One point to add is the difference in non-toxic RV antifreeze compounds. You mentioned Propylene Glycol, but there is also an Ethanol based product. For several reasons the Glycol product is superior, but the alcohol product is cheaper, so may be tempting. Read the labels.

[a href="http://mainecamperdealer.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-rv-anti-freeze/"]http://mainecamperdealer.com/what-you-need-to-know-about-rv-anti-freeze/[/a] 

One other super minor nitpick: At least on my rig the HW heater drains back through the cold water low point spigot. Assuming a HW faucet is open, the HW heater drains through the cold inlet near the tank bottom whereas the hot outlet is near the top and allows air to enter. Same as the home devices. Nuff said.....camp on.
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[daplumbr]

Thanks for the reminders and taking the time. Great job covering plumbing.


For winterization, I also:


Remove all the various small batteries inside that may go dead and corrode their device.

Fully charge the house batteries and check them each month. 

Put it a couple tubs of Damp-Rid in the camper. 

Fully inflate and and cover the tires. 

Give the camper a little love pat and wish it well through the winter. 

[pinstriper]

Why would you hook the compressor to each tap (and...how ?) when you can attach the compressor to the city water intake and blow from that side ? No other plumbing would need to be disconnected, and you just visit each fixture and open it in turn while the system is pressurized, including the toilet.

You would do this after draining the tanks, then also run the pump dry, then add pressure and blow everything out.

Followed by anti-freeze in the traps.

[david]

Why would you hook the compressor to each tap (and...how ?) when you can attach the compressor to the city water intake and blow from that side ? No other plumbing would need to be disconnected, and you just visit each fixture and open it in turn while the system is pressurized, including the toilet.

You would do this after draining the tanks, then also run the pump dry, then add pressure and blow everything out.

Followed by anti-freeze in the traps.

[p]Having never done the blow down (well, perhaps "up") method myself, I just assumed that you would want to start at the high point- the taps and blow backwards to get the water out. But I do remember getting a fitting when my LL was delivered that lets you hook up a compressor at the outside fresh water pressure inlet for that purpose.[/p][p]
[/p][p]So, you are no doubt right. It will take a decent compressor, ie not sure if a 12V tire inflator will work, to produce enough flow to force water up and out the taps.[/p][p]
[/p][p]David
[/p]

[pinstriper]

[quote source="/post/25330/thread" timestamp="1476363511" author="@david"][quote timestamp="1476329482" author="@pinstriper" source="/post/25326/thread"]Why would you hook the compressor to each tap (and...how ?) when you can attach the compressor to the city water intake and blow from that side ? No other plumbing would need to be disconnected, and you just visit each fixture and open it in turn while the system is pressurized, including the toilet.

You would do this after draining the tanks, then also run the pump dry, then add pressure and blow everything out.

Followed by anti-freeze in the traps.
[/quote][p]Having never done the blow down (well, perhaps "up") method myself, I just assumed that you would want to start at the high point- the taps and blow backwards to get the water out. But I do remember getting a fitting when my LL was delivered that lets you hook up a compressor at the outside fresh water pressure inlet for that purpose.[/p][p]
[/p][p]So, you are no doubt right. It will take a decent compressor, ie not sure if a 12V tire inflator will work, to produce enough flow to force water up and out the taps.[/p][p]
[/p][p]David
[/p][/quote]Just cross-checking, Dave. I have the fitting, but not one that could do it from the top.

My compressor is a HFT cheapie, should get it done. No, an inflator sure won't. Not enough volume.

[billmoore]

[quote source="/post/25326/thread" timestamp="1476329482" author="@pinstriper"]Why would you hook the compressor to each tap (and...how ?) when you can attach the compressor to the city water intake and blow from that side ? No other plumbing would need to be disconnected, and you just visit each fixture and open it in turn while the system is pressurized, including the toilet.

You would do this after draining the tanks, then also run the pump dry, then add pressure and blow everything out.

Followed by anti-freeze in the traps.
[/quote]This is exactly what I do... and I run around and hit each fixture twice just to be sure they're cleaned out.

Also, on my trailer there is no separate drain for the hot water heater, and the low point cold water drain doesn't get it completely empty. I have to remove the anode, and probably a half gallon of water comes out when I remove it.

[gbpack]

Last year we used the antifreeze method which worked well but it does take a bit of time to flush all of it out if the system come spring or summer. We would like to try the blow out method using an air compressor, but have a few questions. First, can we leave the toilet flush valve in place when blowing it out? Can we just open up the valve (by depressing the flush pedal) while the air is flows through the system? I really don't want to take that flush valve out, so I'm hoping that we can blow it out without having to do that. Second, do we have to take out the anode in the water heater, or can we get enough water out by opening the pressure valve and opening the low point drains?
Lastly, once the entire system is drained, do we have to put antifreeze in the system (I'd rather not)? Thanks!

[david]

Well, the whole purpose of the drain/blow method is to not use antifreeze, which as you note is a pain to flush in the spring. So no, if you do it right, there is no need for antifreeze except in the sink/shower traps.

I have never done it as I just drain the system, but if you blow up from the outside fresh water connection, then if you hold the toilet flush valve open you should see water flush out and when it stops and air blows out, the flush valve should be clear of water. This is one of the benefits of the blow method- it does clear the flush valve without taking it off.

I have drained the system without pulling the anode and with. Both worked. Leaving the anode in place will probably leave a quart or two of water in the heater but it does no harm when it freezes.

Remember to open the discharge on the fresh water pump and run it for 10 seconds to clear it of water. The air blowing won't do that. Oh and drain/blow the bypass valve if the water heater has one. It will hold a little water if you don't.

David

[gbpack]

Thanks David. After draining the system and opening the pressure release valve on the water heater, if I decide to leave the anode in and the remaining water freezes, will we have a problem the first time we want to use the water heater in the spring? Will we have to be absolutely sure that the block of ice in there has melted before recharging the system and turning the water heater back on?

[david]

I forgot, you camp in frigid weather ;-). No I don't think it will be a problem. Any ice inside shouldn't block the fill port. When you use your fresh water system, either by connecting the outside fitting to a garden hose or fill the tank and start up the fresh water pump, the hot water heater should fill. Then wait a few minutes for it to get full and then you can turn on the electric switch or the propane heater switch and it will warm and melt any ice. Make sure it is full before hitting the electrical switch or you can burn out the heating element.

David

[gbpack]

Thanks. That's what I thought, but just wanted to be sure. We don't actually do a lot of cold weather camping, but when leaving during the winter for warmer climes I just want to make sure that we'll be able to fill and use the water heater once we get out of the freeze zone!

[pinstriper]

You may as well drain the hot water heater by pulling the anode, as it is a good opportunity to examine and replace if necessary. A worthy thing to do once a year. If you are doing multiple winterization/recommissioning cycles thru the winter due to camping trips, once is sufficient.

[gbpack]

You may as well drain the hot water heater by pulling the anode, as it is a good opportunity to examine and replace if necessary. A worthy thing to do once a year. If you are doing multiple winterization/recommissioning cycles thru the winter due to camping trips, once is sufficient.

 Thanks Pinstriper. Yes, I would normlly do that at that time (pull the anode), but I just did that about a month ago in order to inspect it. Then we refilled the water heater and have used it again. Since it was still good, I reinstalled it and thought maybe I could just leave it in for the winter so that I don't have to reinstall it yet again in the spring. I know that's it's not that big of a job, but if I can skip it this time then I just might do that! ?

[drdave]

Great write up David!  


I picked this up for connecting to the water line to blow out with compressed air:

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-36143-Brass-Quick-Connect/dp/B002XL2IEA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1477248428&sr=8-1&keywords=RV+winterizing
 


Depending on what you have for compressor connections a few other options:

https://www.amazon.com/Winterize-Motorhome-Camper-Trailer-Adapter/dp/B0056XBBB8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1477248967&sr=8-5&keywords=RV+winterizing
https://www.amazon.com/Camco-36104-Plastic-Blow-Plug/dp/B0006JLW3E/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&qid=1477248926&sr=8-32&keywords=RV+winterizing
https://www.amazon.com/Camco-RV-Blow-Out-Plugs/dp/B00QYBJKRS/ref=sr_1_34?ie=UTF8&qid=1477248840&sr=8-34&keywords=RV+winterizing




Winterizing kit for the antifreeze option...not 100% necessary  but just makes it easier than disconnecting the supply line from the pump:  

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-36543-Pump-Converter-Winterizing/dp/B0006JJ588/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477249030&sr=8-2&keywords=RV+winterizing



WH Bypass kit if yours isn't plumbed already:
https://www.amazon.com/Camco-35983-Quick-Permanent-Pass/dp/B0006JJ57Y/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1477249030&sr=8-11&keywords=RV+winterizing
or
https://www.amazon.com/Camco-35953-Supreme-Permanent-Gallon/dp/B000BQUJL8/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1477249030&sr=8-15&keywords=RV+winterizing