Tire size changes on Camplites

[djsamuel]

[quote source="/post/18065/thread" timestamp="1453909415" author="@christianm"][quote source="/post/18046/thread" timestamp="1453828106" author="@bgewin"]I'm curious.  Is it possible to switch my 14 inch wheels for 15 inch on a 21BHS?  Or did they redesign the wheel well to fit the 15s? [/quote]My rep is saying no- because the wheel well was not redesigned to fit it. :-) [/quote]Are you saying that the new 21' models do not have 15" tires because the wheel wells were not redesigned, or that older 21' models cannot use 15" tires because they do not have the redesigned wheel wells?

Thanks!

[bgewin]

[quote source="/post/18065/thread" timestamp="1453909415" author="@christianm"]

I'm curious.  Is it possible to switch my 14 inch wheels for 15 inch on a 21BHS?  Or did they redesign the wheel well to fit the 15s?

My rep is saying no- because the wheel well was not redesigned to fit it. :-) [/quote]Thanks for your reply.  But what part are you saying no to?  Can I switch to a 15?  Thanks.

[livinlitepaul]

[quote source="/post/18068/thread" timestamp="1453912158" author="@bgewin"][quote source="/post/18065/thread" timestamp="1453909415" author="@christianm"]My rep is saying no- because the wheel well was not redesigned to fit it. :-) [/quote]Thanks for your reply.  But what part are you saying no to?  Can I switch to a 15?  Thanks.
[/quote]This is Paul from Livin Lite. Could you provide a vin# for your unit because it really depends upon when it was built. Some 2016's were made to accommodate 15" tires and some were not. Just let me know your vin via private message and I will check it out.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Is it possible to post a single VIN per model after which the 15" tires will fit and before which 15" tires will not fit? A single VIN for 21RBS and another for 21BHS? In other words when did the changes go into production?
[/font]

[djsamuel]

[quote source="/post/18067/thread" timestamp="1453912108" author="paul r"][div][/div][quote source="/post/18066/thread" timestamp="1453910513" author="@djsamuel"]Are you saying that the new 21' models do not have 15" tires because the wheel wells were not redesigned, or that older 21' models cannot use 15" tires because they do not have the redesigned wheel wells?

Thanks![/quote]This is Paul from Livin Lite.  Could you provide a vin# for your unit because it really depends upon when it was built.  Some 2016's were made to accommodate 15" tires and some were not.  Just let me know your vin via private message and I will check it out.
[/quote]Paul,

I have a 2013 21BHS, so I assume the 15" tires will not fit.

Thanks for the input.

Doug

[blairh]

[quote source="/post/18072/thread" timestamp="1453913999" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Is it possible to post a single VIN per model after which the 15" tires will fit and before which 15" tires will not fit? A single VIN for 21RBS and another for 21BHS? In other words when did the changes go into production?
[/font][/quote]Hey Charile! I just want to follow up on the axle ratings of the 21' models. They are 2500# Dexter Torsion axles going forward.

To answer your question about the tire size per VIN... Yes, its possible. Essentially you could have two identical trailers with the same year model, but have two different structure designs. This goes back to my comment earlier about the timeline of the new year models being release earlier in the year when the year model changes are release later in the year.

I totally agree with your suggestion earlier you made earlier to someone else. "When it doubt, check it out"... Go and see if you have the additional clearance and the space to add 15" tires to your Camplite, then you'll know for sure.  

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Blair,

Thanks.  On the 2500# axles, a[/font][font size="3"]t least we know. Another mark against Thor in my book and another I told you so, regardless of what was said by Thor and Scott. The question on VINs was really directed to the LL factory. If they would clue us in on the effectivity VINs it would help all of us check out our rigs without waiting for a factory response.

Thanks for you coordination efforts.
[/font]

[bgewin]

I noticed on my 2016 21BHS when the trailer is level I seem to have enough clearance for 15 inch.  But when the axle is flexed it almost touches the plastic wheel well trim.  Only hope would be to remove the trim and see if there's enough space between the tire and frame and if so I'd have to replace the trim with something smaller.  My 2016 BTW was built in August 2015.

[blairh]

[quote source="/post/18099/thread" timestamp="1453952954" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Blair,

Thanks.  On the 2500# axles, a[/font][font size="3"]t least we know. Another mark against Thor in my book and another I told you so, regardless of what was said by Thor and Scott. The question on VINs was really directed to the LL factory. If they would clue us in on the effectivity VINs it would help all of us check out our rigs without waiting for a factory response.

Thanks for you coordination efforts.
[/font][/quote]I totally agree, it would make things a lot easier to reference for everyone. Let me see if I can get a list range of VINs that were before and after the change was made.

[christianm]

[quote source="/post/18104/thread" timestamp="1453955590" author="@blairh"][quote timestamp="1453952954" author="@charliem" source="/post/18099/thread"][font size="3"]Blair,

Thanks.  On the 2500# axles, a[/font][font size="3"]t least we know. Another mark against Thor in my book and another I told you so, regardless of what was said by Thor and Scott. The question on VINs was really directed to the LL factory. If they would clue us in on the effectivity VINs it would help all of us check out our rigs without waiting for a factory response.

Thanks for you coordination efforts.
[/font][/quote]I totally agree, it would make things a lot easier to reference for everyone. Let me see if I can get a list range of VINs that were before and after the change was made.
[/quote]Not sure who you usually work with at Livin Lite- but I'd be happy to help put the list together If I can! Just let me know! :-) 

[charliem]

[font size="3"]A question for Aggie79,

Since you used a Dexter axle on your home built you might have an answer for me. Do the axles have a mechanical limit built it to restrict the vertical travel of the wheel? This would help those who want to change to 15" wheels and tires. It would seem there must be a stop to prevent the tire from hitting the underside of the trailer or the wheel well under extreme loading. Looking at my 2014 21RBS I see plenty of room above the 14" tires , but I don't know what the limit of travel is. Conventional leaf spring suspensions are limited by the axle/frame placement, but I don't know how the Dexters work.

That said, I don't see a lot of advantage to changing to 15" wheels. A nominal 0.5" increase in ground clearance doesn't seem worth the expense unless 14" tires become unobtainable. 
[/font]

[aggie79]

The Dexter Torflex torsion axles do not have a mechanical or physical stop.  The outer axle housing is square. The inner "torsion" part of the axle is diamond shaped. In the corner spaces are cylinder shaped rubber strips. The length of the strips determine the load rating.

The spindle and hub are mounted in a short arm that is connected to the diamond shaped axle.  When a tire goes over a bump, the torsion arm cause the diamond shaped axle to rotate and compress the rubber. Of course this works both ways up and down. The compression forces push back to return the torsion arm to its original position.

The torsion arm can be ordered with different start angles. The start angle can be horizontal, below horizontal, or above horizontal relative of the spindle position to the axle position.

The start angle affects the ride height. It would be my guess that the off-road package uses torsion axles with a different start angle than the standard package.

As you mentioned the wheel size increase adds to ride height. Another factor that could increase ride height of the off-road package is the tire size. A wider tire - say 235 instead off 205 - and/or a tire with a larger profile - say 75 instead of 70 - would result in a tire with a taller sidewall. (Sidewall height is tire width in millimeters times profile divided by 100 and divided by 25.4 to convert to inches).

This is probably way too much and boring information but I hope it makes a little sense.  

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Thanks Aggie79,

If I understand correctly the rotation of the diamond axle is eventually stopped when the rubber is totally compressed. I'm guessing the diamond axle cannot rotate 90 degrees within the outer housing. Wider or higher profile tires would add to ground clearance, but would also have the wheel well trim interference problem. I don't plan to change mine, but others have asked the question so I wanted to understand it. BTW, the off road package does start with 10 degrees additional downward angle and LT tires.
[/font]

[mitch]

The Dexter Torflex torsion axles do not have a mechanical or physical stop.  The outer axle housing is square. The inner "torsion" part of the axle is diamond shaped. In the corner spaces are cylinder shaped rubber strips. The length of the strips determine the load rating.

The spindle and hub are mounted in a short arm that is connected to the diamond shaped axle.  When a tire goes over a bump, the torsion arm cause the diamond shaped axle to rotate and compress the rubber. Of course this works both ways up and down. The compression forces push back to return the torsion arm to its original position.

The torsion arm can be ordered with different start angles. The start angle can be horizontal, below horizontal, or above horizontal relative of the spindle position to the axle position.

The start angle affects the ride height. It would be my guess that the off-road package uses torsion axles with a different start angle than the standard package.

As you mentioned the wheel size increase adds to ride height. Another factor that could increase ride height of the off-road package is the tire size. A wider tire - say 235 instead off 205 - and/or a tire with a larger profile - say 75 instead of 70 - would result in a tire with a taller sidewall. (Sidewall height is tire width in millimeters times profile divided by 100 and divided by 25.4 to convert to inches).

This is probably way too much and boring information but I hope it makes a little sense.  

That was a great explanation, thanks

[aggie79]

[quote source="/post/18170/thread" timestamp="1454129276" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Thanks Aggie79,

If I understand correctly the rotation of the diamond axle is eventually stopped when the rubber is totally compressed. I'm guessing the diamond axle cannot rotate 90 degrees within the outer housing. Wider or higher profile tires would add to ground clearance, but would also have the wheel well trim interference problem. I don't plan to change mine, but others have asked the question so I wanted to understand it. BTW, the off road package does start with 10 degrees additional downward angle and LT tires.
[/font][/quote]Charlie,

If I was smart enough, I could do the math, but I'm guessing that there is about a 30-45 degree limit on rotation.  It depends on the start angle, but there is about 3" of vertical travel on the Torflex from "unloaded" to "shock" condition.  When the Toflex axle is loaded to its design specification, there is about a 1" drop, leaving the remaining 2" of travel for suspension loads.

I found this YouTube video that shows a cross-section of the axle and how it works:

[a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzVVqXxbGSA"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzVVqXxbGSA[/a]