Winterization 2015

[david]

Last year we had quite a thread on this topic, and since I just finished winterizing our 16TBS, I thought I would start a thread for this year and share my experiences and give others a chance to share theirs.

The following describes a drain strategy for my 16TBS which will be fairly generic to all CL models. It is pretty much similar to what I did last year with one significant exception. Others can comment on an antifreeze flush strategy.

There are three drain valves on the side of the trailer: cold, hot and the fresh water tank drain. Open them all up. I did this at the conclusion of our last camp out this morning and left them open when I drove the 100 miles back to where we keep the trailer to let road sloshing get all of the water that is going to get out. Be sure and open the water heater cross connect valve (If you have one) to let that leg of water drain out. Then close it. Some have suggested that it is better to remove the plug on the outside of the water heater to drain it, but my experience of last year indicates that opening the hot water drain valve was sufficient.

Then disconnect the discharge to the water pump temporarily and pull off the strainer cap on the suction. Dump any water in the cap. Then run the pump for a few seconds to force out any water inside. Open all valves- sink, lavatory, push the toilet flush valve and the shower head momentarily to let any water drain down. I forgot to do this for the outside shower, but I did the same last winter so I am sure that its tubing is flexible enough to withstand freezing. FWIW don't let anybody tell you that the  PEX tubing used for water plumbing on the CL won't be harmed by freezing. I know better. So after letting everything drain down, reconnect the pump strainer and the discharge tubing.

Now for this year's change in approach. I learned from last year that the toilet flush valve retains a body full of water even when you disconnect the inlet tubing. Apparently there is a check valve that won't let it drain back and last year it froze and broke. So this year I pulled it out of the toilet body- there are two tabs that you have to depress, and disconnected the supply and discharge tubing to it. Sure enough when I pushed the flush button on it a few table spoons of water came out when I blew through the valve with the button depressed. But to be 100% sure I poured a few tablespoons of RV antifreeze in the discharge nozzle and hooked it all back up. Next year we will see if this solved the problem. I am 99.9% sure, but..., stay tuned

The final thing is to pour a cup of RV antifreeze in each drain: sink, lavatory, shower and toilet. The first two definitely have p-traps and need  to be filled with antifreeze to protect them.

All in all, it took me less time to do all of the above than to type this message.

The beauty of the drain strategy is that next year, there is almost  nothing to do. Just fill the water tanks, turn the pump on and blow the air pockets out of the plumbing.

David

[tinkeringtechie]

This all sounds great except I didn't see anything in here about blowing out the lines. I'd be worried about lines that bend away from the low point drain or have dips in them. The water in those will not make it out through gravity alone.

[quote source="/post/15911/thread" timestamp="1444329698" author="@david"]The beauty of the drain strategy is that next year, there is almost  nothing to do. Just fill the water tanks, turn the pump on and blow the air pockets out of the plumbing.
[/quote]Except sanitize, right? 

[david]

Last year's experience- no damage except to the flush valve and I didn't blow the lines clear then, leads me to believe that you don't have to get out ALL of the water. Leaving water in a low spot in the line is ok- there is enough room for the frozen water to expand. So I did not blow out the lines this time either.

Having said that, a low spot in our boat dock's PEX water line froze and split the PEX a few years ago. But the difference was that low spot was dozens of feet, maybe a 100' long. Any low spot in an RV is only a few feet and should be able to expand ok.

Yes, I forgot to add that I will add a cupful of bleach to the first fill next season, pump it through all of the lines, let it sit for a few hours, then dump it and fill with fresh water.

David

[pinstriper]

I like your procedure, David, and quite right about the easy recommission in spring.

I do think you should pull the plug at the water heater because it allows you to examine the anode and see if it needs to be replaced.

I also think blowing air through is a good way to force the water out of valves and the pump. We have a leak on our outside shower - between the faucet valves and the quick-connect. It only leaks when the taps are open. I believe the dealer didn't blow air through this fixture and the water between the valves and the QC froze and popped a seal or something. Slow leak, but constant.

Spot on about the anti-freeze in the traps.

This whole procedure has the added benefit of only using a few cups of anti-freeze instead of gallons. Bravo !

[daplumbr]

Thanks for the updated write up. I just did our 16TBS with almost exactly the same procedure. I have an air compressor so it's easy to blow out the lines and I did that. Quite a bit of water came out of the toilet with the air. I used slightly more antifreeze than you and drained maybe a half cup through both drain gate valves to make sure the didn't freeze. I left about a half cup in the toilet. 

[scout]

Nice review, does anyone suck antifreeze up into their pump, I have the 13 RDB where the pump is located in a sealed compartment under the sofa bed, I blew the air out with a compressor last year, but was thinking maybe to add rv antifreeze into the pump this year. Also thanks to David for further explaining the toilet check valve again. I disconnected and drained the toilet line, but wasn't aware of the water retention issue in there...I'm also x2 with pinstriper with removing the hot water heater's anode and looking inside before hibernation...

[mitch]

I do run anti-freeze through all the lines by connecting a hose directly to the pump.  While blowing out the lines can work I sleep better knowing that I have antifreeze everywhere. With the water heater bypass set up I use about a gallon and a half of antifreeze in my 13QBB that includes running antifreeze through everything including the outside shower all the way down to the low point drains.  I also remove the water heater anode.  On a side note I was surprised how much of it was gone after the the first year.

[whoofit]

With my Dad owning mobile home parks and lot renters paying us to winterize their trailers when they went to FL for the winters we always used antifreeze in the lines. I still do out of habit and never had any damage yet. Back then there were rubber valve seals that could dry out if left dry. Not sure if that is the case today but guess I'll never find out. A couple gallons of antifreeze per year is the norm for me.

That pretty pink color is comforting to me.

[hogtyd]

[quote source="/post/15971/thread" timestamp="1444599906" author="@scout"]Nice review, does anyone suck antifreeze up into their pump, I have the 13 RDB where the pump is located in a sealed compartment under the sofa bed, I blew the air out with a compressor last year, but was thinking maybe to add rv antifreeze into the pump this year. Also thanks to David for further explaining the toilet check valve again. I disconnected and drained the toilet line, but wasn't aware of the water retention issue in there...I'm also x2 with pinstriper with removing the hot water heater's anode and looking inside before hibernation...


[/quote]I have a 13QBB, and the pump is also located inside the sofa bed compartment. To winterize, I removed (with some moderate effort to pull it off the fitting) the hose from the "out" nipple on the fresh water tank under the trailer, and took that end of the hose and stuck it in antifreeze jug. I then ran the water pump to pressurize the system, and opened the faucets and valves to run the antifreeze through the system. I did have to elevate the antifreeze jug about 6" with some bricks so that the hose would go far enough into the jug. I also had to re-fill the jug with antifreeze from a second container once it sucked up about 1/2 a gallon, since the hose was not long enough to reach the bottom of the container. After reconnecting the hose fitting, I ran poured some antifreeze through the fresh water inlets to add a little antifreeze to the fresh water tank. 

This is my first time winterizing a camper, and I did it at the storage lot where I keep it, so I had to improvise a bit when I realized the pump was not easily accessible with the tools I had with me...hopefully it works  

Graham

[pinstriper]

Man, that's doing things the hard way, and now you gotta flush that crap out of your fresh tank.

[hogtyd]

[quote source="/post/15987/thread" timestamp="1444661335" author="@pinstriper"]Man, that's doing things the hard way, and now you gotta flush that crap out of your fresh tank.
[/quote]Yes, that is true! Although in my case the only thing the fresh water is used for is flushing the toilet. So that antifreeze crap is actually being use for flushing other...crap.  ;-|

[fasteddieb]

I followed the recommendation of a friend and used the pink stuff in all the lines and traps, but NOT in the fresh water tank which I simply drained.

Logic was its very hard to get all the pink stuff out of the fresh water tank.

Very hard freezes last winter before we moved Campy to FL, and it seemed to work.

[kycamper]

I was told that you could use one of those little pumps you attach to your drill, bought at Home Depot, and just pump the pink stuff into the city water inlet. Does that sound realistic, or do I have to install that Camco winterization kit??

[pinstriper]

[quote timestamp="1444687675" source="/post/16001/thread" author="@gleamb"]I was told that you could use one of those little pumps you attach to your drill, bought at Home Depot, and just pump the pink stuff into the city water inlet. Does that sound realistic, or do I have to install that Camco winterization kit??[/quote]I am skeptical.  In the first place, how much pressure does it put out ? In the second place, how are you gonna manage the drill outside and the taps inside ?

Definitely a McGuyver move, though. If it works.

[bworks]

My design on winterizing to protect in our -20^o plus winter temps is:

 - Open one spigot and the low point drains then close them when water stops draining. 
 - Pull the anode out of the water heater and leave it out all winter.  (good time to inspect it)
 - switch the water heater bypass open and close the inlet and outlet valves.
 - Pour a few gallons of RV anti freeze into the tank and use the pump to generate pressure
 - Run the both hot and cold spigots, both hot and cold shower and flush the toilet until the Red colored Antifreeze is visible.
 - Drain the excess Antifreeze in the supply tank back into gallon jug(s) for next year.

This fills all those areas with antifreeze that you all indicate water can collect and freeze.
Been winterizing trailers for years in this fashion and never had a problem.