Buying a Livin' Lite

[obadiah]

Hello guys!

Can't wait to buy our QS 10.0! However, I'm kind of stuck with the price.

Does anyone have the Dealer cost? They're giving me their price on the trailer at 9400.  It does have some options, but when I priced it on the dealer costs website, it was showing a good bit closer to 8100 but that was one model year older. 

What are you all paying for your 10.0s? I will say that I'm slick of sleazy sales tactics.  :0( I'm ready to go with a smaller company just to avoid working with the big boys.

Thanks!

O

[dh50]

If you haven't signed off on the P.O., there's still time to back away nice and slow from the table armed with the knowledge that there's other new QS10s out there, even a 2016 model, with retail prices that appear to be less than your current dealer's purported cost.  Here's just a couple of links.  Hope this helps you land the BEST DEAL around!  P.S.  Be sure to have fun....the hunt is usually the most exciting part!  The work really starts once you bag the beast, metaphorically speaking. 

http://www.lazydays.com/rvs/livin-lite?Classes=PT


http://www.rvtrader.com/New-and-Used-Livin''-Lite-Pop-Up-Camper-For-Sale-On-RV-Trader/search-results?type=Pop+Up+Camper|198071&make=Livin''+Lite|183324084&modelkeyword=1&sort=featured:desc

[daplumbr]

gwbushhog is on the right track by looking at dealer selling prices. When my wife and I were shopping for our Camplite last year we ended up laughing about the elusive and purported MSRP and dealer invoice numbers. Ask 10 dealers and get 10 very different responses for the same unit. This is not like the auto industry with MSRP stickers and invoice costs that can be looked up. Sleazy or not, the RV industry is very coy about reference prices of any sort. So, use gwbushhog's idea and look up selling prices and go in armed with those from several dealers. 

[peislander]

This posting started out as a comment I made on  Livin' Lite's Facebook page. I thought I could plagiarize myself, expand on the content a bit, and I posted it on my blog. So this is its third life. If I'm not mistaken, when I posted it to the Facebook page a couple dealers thanked me for being fair & accurate to the realities of pricing rv's.

I had noticed that lots of the visitors to Livin' Lite's Facebook page ask about new trailer pricing and get very frustrated when that info isn't forthcoming. The lack of pricing info no doubt is applicable to other rv brands too. Manufacturers are typically reluctant to publish their suggested pricing.

Rather than seek out a list of manufacturer's suggested retail prices you can find actual asking prices online by searching listings of trailers for sale. They are usually ones that dealers have posted to sites like >> rvt.com <<. You may have noticed that some online dealer ads for rv's will note manufacturer's suggested retail prices (MSRP) and then offer the rv for less or indicate "make me an offer". Based on those ads, it definitely appears that most rv's sell for less than their published MSRP. More often than not it appears that MSRP's, where provided, are just a marketing ploy to make buyers think they are getting a good deal.

When using online ads to get an idea of what a particular model costs - be careful. The cost of the same model trailer can vary considerably depending on where it is and how much demand there is for that model. A trailer that is $15,000 in Michigan might be $18,500 (or more) in Maine. It's not that the Maine dealer is a scoundrel, it justs costs much more to get the trailer to Maine. Lower volume dealers may need higher mark-ups just to stay in business. If there is local demand, dealers will discount less. If the dealer thinks they will have no problem selling the unit, the price they'll want for it is going to be higher than other less salable units. Also realize that in the rv industry two people buying the same kind of rv on the same day from the same dealer, will almost certainly pay different prices. You could bet the second buyer will pay more. The price you find on the internet is not the price you'll pay at a different dealer (and likely not even the price you'd pay at the dealer who posted the price as prices are typically negotiated). Internet pricing can be very inaccurate compared to what you may actually pay. You may pay a lot more - or less - depending on the circumstances.

Due to the impact of transportation costs, the price you'll pay in, say Alberta, will never be anywhere near as low as you'll find online from dealers near Indiana where hundreds of rv brands are manufactured. When I was in Indiana to pick up my Camplite trailer at the Livin' Lite factory I stayed at the Holiday Inn in nearby Elkhart. Across the street from the hotel was a fenced parking lot packed with beautiful new rv's. In one corner were several Livin' Lite products. At the factory I asked about it and Don explained that it was a rv transport company and all the rv's were locally manufactured units being delivered to dealers. Apparently shipping an rv can cost as much as $2.50 to $3 a mile! Don explained that the cost can vary depending on the order. If a dealer's order is for multiple units, and they can be shipped together on a flatbed, then the cost per mile will be less than shipping a single unit. This favors higher volume dealers who can get the benefit of lower transportation costs. Given the significant cost of transporting rv's to the dealers it should be understandable that there will be higher prices the farther the dealer is from where the rv is manufactured. It also highlights that if you ask a dealer for a quote, what transportation costs they carry likely reflect the higher cost of getting your single rv to the dealer. The transport costs could well be higher than it was for the bunch of units on their lot that they bought in one order. It can also explain why many dealers carry a brand for which their pricing seems better than the other brands they sell. It could be the costs are lower because the dealer is closer to that particular manufacturer.

Use the internet searches at sites like >> rvt.com <<, >> rvusa.com <<, or >> rvtrader.com << to get a rough idea of what a trailer might cost. It won't be accurate but hopefully it will help you plan a preliminary budget. If you are serious, contact a dealer and have them work you up a quote. That will be a lot closer to what you'll have to pay but expect that a negotiation will likely lower that quote. If the quote is much more expensive than equivalents seen in your internet searches, keep a cool head! Rather than get angry try to look at it objectively. What impact does transport costs have on the total quoted price? Look on the internet to see the particular dealer's own ads. Even for brands other than you are interested in. You might be able to get a better sense of what kind of discount the dealer might accept in a negotiation.

If you are interested in a aluminum trailer manufactured by Livin' Lite, note that on the company's website you can search for your closest dealers. For most it is unlikely you'll find a dealer just down the road from where you live. If you're lucky the closest dealer may have some units you can look at. Call ahead to ask what inventory they have. It is very unlikely they'll have the exact model you want so don't expect that. As most models of Camplites & Quicksilvers are similarly constructed just seeing any model can give you a good review of Livin' Lite's quality etc. I bought my own Camplite without ever having seen another Camplite in person. I had done lots of research and was confident that the quality would be great - and I was not disappointed.

In conclusion I hope this posting helps someone. In an ideal world you'd be able to get accurate pricing info easily. When buying a trailer it isn't that easy.

[david]

Another resource for competitive pricing info is D&H RV Center, a big LL dealer where we bought our LL near Raleigh/Durham, NC. They usually have about ten LLs in stock or on the way and their web site gives MSRP and their offering price. More importantly, every unit has a description of actual equipment on board. The lack of any optional equipment info is what makes asking prices offered on RVT, etc. not very useful. There is no way of knowing what it is.

D&H's web site shows asking prices of 10-15% off of MSRP.

My other piece of advice is to buy from a big LL dealer even if it means driving half a day to get there. It will more likely be delivered in full working condition from a dealer that sells a lot of them and wants to maintain that reputation.

David

[obadiah]

Wow guys, I really appreciate the great comments.  I am frustrated too because there is not a lot of direct comparisons and pop-ups are just not that popular here in the Nevada/Utah desert.  For you all that ordered direct and outfitted the way you wanted it, how did your prices compare to those on the lot?

Thanks,

O

[david]

It all depends. If an RV has been sitting on the lot for 6 months and the new model year is about to come out, then you can probably do 5% better. Just like cars. If you order from the factory then there is no dealer floor plan costs (interest on the inventory) and you can do a few percent better. The most expensive RV is probably one that just came in from the factory and is a popular model.

But the total difference isn't more than 5%.

David

[dp]

Depends on the options you get and also what part of the US you are buying from. The farther away from Indiana the more it costs. I bought in Wisconsin and it had sit for 6 months. I got a great deal and after much haggling he had no money left but threw in an awning, which we love. Good luck.
    Ron

[whoofit]

[quote source="/post/12263/thread" author="@obadiah" timestamp="1434222617"]Hello guys!

Can't wait to buy our QS 10.0! However, I'm kind of stuck with the price.

Does anyone have the Dealer cost? They're giving me their price on the trailer at 9400.  It does have some options, but when I priced it on the dealer costs website, it was showing a good bit closer to 8100 but that was one model year older. 

What are you all paying for your 10.0s? I will say that I'm slick of sleazy sales tactics.  :0( I'm ready to go with a smaller company just to avoid working with the big boys.

Thanks!

O[/quote][p]Have you seen this site?  Here is the 2014 QS 10 dealer cost:  [a href="http://www.seedealercost.com/products/model-options/index/id/13296/productCategorySlug/arall"]http://www.seedealercost.com/products/model-options/index/id/13296/productCategorySlug/arall[/a] Says just shy of $6200 before delivery and prep.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I think the NADA site for low retail does pretty well too. Add delivery/prep if you must. The LivinLite site has an area for leftovers sorted by dealers. It's how I bagged a tremendous deal on our 16DB leftover. But I beat them up good....I mean they were motivated. Cash helps too.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Their eyes bug out with a stack of twenties...lol
[/p]

[hiker74]

Also make sure you look at www.searchtempest.com as well as yakaz.com to make sure there isn't a used one out there. Given that Quicksilver campers are very simple you really don't have to worry about issues other than possibly a repack of bearings or something simple like that. As with all RV's they lose a lot of value during the first couple years.

[obadiah]

Hello all, well the search continues.  I will eventually find one with the rear ledge and big tires!  Turns out the dealer sold it while I was taking my sweet time with some comparisons.  Looks like they had it priced for the market.

I just wanted to say thank you all for your words of wisdom.  As we have a week to San Diego planned for August, I may need to open my search up for "traditional" popups as well.  But I'm finding there is a reason I want the Quicksilver: both that I have looked at in person on CL had water damage and delimitation. :0(

O

[obadiah]

[quote source="/post/12263/thread" timestamp="1434222617" author="@obadiah"][span]We did it![/span][/quote]Drove up to Salt Lake on the 3rd and picked up a white QS10 with all the doodads but big tires and the rear shelf. Was apps 2100 less than the last trailer that got away--I can learn to pack more efficiently for that much difference.

First shakedown in two weeks and a trip to San Diego planned for August were super excited!

Need to armourall the tonneau and buy a battery disconnect switch for storage but we'll leave well enough alone otherwise until we get a few nights in it. 

Thanks guys!

O

[peislander]

Congratulations on your purchase. I know you'll have fun with it for a long time. 

[johnc]

Congratulations on your new purchase. You'll find that there is more room inside the trailer than you think. I really wanted the rear deck but am eally happy with the camper even without the rear deck. Enjoy!

[suzannehb]

Do NOT buy a Coleman QS. We bought an 8.0 and just had our second trip ruined by mild rain. The pop up leaks in all four corners. We had an '84 Coleman and upgraded to this piece of junk. In addition to leaky seams, part of the canvas is sewn incorrectly and the water faucet hook up does not work. Hugely disappointing.