Gas Vs Diesel - any mileage info anyone can share?

[nmken]

[p]All:[/p][p]
[/p][p]Do any of you have info you can share pulling a camplite with a diesel truck or SUV?  I understand diesel will get higher Miles/Gal versus Gas but the fuel is at a higher cost - does the higher mileage outweigh the cost/gallon?  I've seen quotes of 9-12 on a gas engine (I get 11.5 with my 4runner) and have seen 16-20 mpg on diesel engines - but I'm trying to validate that 16-20 range - understanding there are many factors involved in actuals.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Thanks[/p][p]Ken[/p]

[pinstriper]

For this to pencil out, you will also need to factor in the cost difference between fuels, and more importantly the vehicles. Plus, you need to run the numbers at different numbers of miles. So how many miles at what price of fuel do you have to get how much better mileage to offset the more expensive vehicle ?

Unless you just want some psuedo-facts to rationalize getting a diesel, in which case...get a diesel.

[jeeps]

[font size="3"]As you can see by the info by my name, we pull our trailer with a diesel vehicle.  We've gotten as high as 18, but typically we get about 17 MPG.[/font]

[daplumbr]

There are WAY too many variables to make individual comparisons useful. Www.fueleconomy.gov reports that diesels get 20-35% better mileage than gassers. The government site that tracks fuel prices shows diesel costs 14% more that regular gas right now. Both percentages will change with supply and demand and with new engine technologies. To complete an economic analysis you'd have to factor in the higher cost of a Diesel engine, whether gas or Diesel engines last longer, and service costs   So, test drive for noise, performance and etc. and then get whatever feels right!

[whoofit]

I have nothing to offer from first hand experience, like you asked for, except to say be aware of availability issues with diesel. It is more difficult to find at all hours and in every locale.

Other than that I think they are great. Provided you don't get a smelly one.

[nmken]

Brenda thanks much for sharing your data.  The Grand Cherokee seems like a nearly ideal tv, if perhaps a little pricey - any downsides to it?

[leslie]

I tow my Camplite 21-BHS with a 2 wheel drive Jeep Grand Cherokee. Downsides - I rarely exceed 55 mph when towing. I have an Equalizer WDH with anti-sway. If wind gusts exceed 25 - 30 mph, I look for some place to stop. And - oh yeah - some guys who tow with a large truck sniff at my Jeep!

I have to include some upsides - better gasoline mileage, easier handling, and just more comfortable than the larger trucks.

[dh50]

As others have indicated, there is no one overwhelming factor that will clinch your decision. Camplites are not heavy enough to require a diesel tow vehicle, so it becomes a matter of personal preference. Regarding fuel economy, divide the cost of fuel by the mpg to get cents per mile of driving. In my case ( AXXESS 26ft, pulled by Ram Ecodiesel) I have gotten between 13 and 18 mpg towing. on the high end, that would be diesel at $2.95 divided by 18, or 16 cents/mile. The variation in mileage is due to speed ( 50 mph vs. 65 mph). The frontal area of an enclosed trailer compared to a boat or a loaded flatbed  is more of a factor on mpg than weight of the trailer.

Since the Ram is my everyday driver, I opted for the Ecodiesel over the Hemi for the mpg difference. I get about 26 mpg average(with the AC on in central FLA), so even with the higher price of fuel the math works in my favor. I did pay a premium for the diesel option, but I plan to keep the truck forever, and it should have a higher resale value, so that guided my choice.

This is my first diesel in almost 50 yrs of driving, and so far I love it. One downside is the extra complexity of emission control equipment mandated by the EPA, including the requirement for DEF - diesel exhaust fluid, although it virtually eliminated the smell and smoke. I have literally stuck my nose in the exhaust pipe and it basically smells like steam! This could have an effect of the long term reliability of the whole package, but the durability of the diesel itself is legend. So, bottom line is whatever works for you!

[david]

The current high price of diesel vs gasoline ($2.80 vs $2.25 in my area) virtually negates the better efficiency of diesel. The cause is subject to much debate: from a global oil company conspiracy to supply and demand considerations (my theory). But it is here to stay and it is unfortunate.

Diesels will never catch on in the US unless the foregoing changes or it is changed by differential taxes like in Europe.

David

[tinkeringtechie]

One downside is the extra complexity of emission control equipment mandated by the EPA, including the requirement for DEF - diesel exhaust fluid, although it virtually eliminated the smell and smoke.

To me, this is the deal breaker. Diesel engines are fundamentally simpler than gas engines, but once you throw on all of the emissions burden it becomes much more complex. Every little bit of exhaust runs through a particulate filter that has to "regen" or it clogs up and slows to a crawl (potentially needing to be replaced). So don't plan on taking in on small trips to the grocery store too often. The AdBlue addititive adds a few cents per gallon to your fuel cost but nobody seems to calculate that in their comparisons. All that plus a dozen flaky sensors to monitor the emissions system and you're looking at significant increase in the purchase price and more maintenance costs as well. Basically the EPA ruined what could have been a competitive alternative. 

[hogtyd]

I used to own a BMW diesel 3-series (335d), and while I didn't use it as a tow vehicle, the observations about the DEF and related emissions issues on modern diesels are very accurate.  I loved the torque, milesge and theoretical increased resale value of the diesel, as well as the $7500 tax credit.  BUT, the emissions management system was a mess.  Lots of error codes, fouled injectors, crystallized DEF problems, etc.  I'm sure all manufacturers have made some progress in that area in the last couple of years, but it still seems to be a learning curve for at least some of them.

Graham

[daplumbr]

The emission control systems on gas engines are complex too, but manufacturers perfected (so to speak) those and it's hard to argue against the significantly cleaner air we all breathe because of the Clean Air Act. I'm really impressed with progress on clean diesel and remain optimistic that manufacturers will (eventually) get that right too. In the meantime, I for one am very happy to live in a country with a Clean Air Act. 

[drdave]

[quote source="/post/9037/thread" author="@whoofit" timestamp="1428580372"]I have nothing to offer from first hand experience, like you asked for, except to say be aware of availability issues with diesel. It is more difficult to find at all hours and in every locale.


[/quote]I live in southeast PA.   I don't have any numbers or anything, but I've noticed a definite trend in the past year or so of more and more gas stations adding 1 or 2 diesel pumps.   The main chain I see doing this is Wawa who must have an initiative to do this because they have systematically added diesel to every station I pass in my daily travels.    

[jeeps]

[quote source="/post/9040/thread" timestamp="1428587299" author="@nmken"]Brenda thanks much for sharing your data.  The Grand Cherokee seems like a nearly ideal tv, if perhaps a little pricey - any downsides to it?[/quote]Yes!  The DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) for emission control  -- thank you, government   O_o .  You have to add it about every 4-5,000 miles and if you do it yourself, you risk warranty issues.  If you have a dealer do it, you pay considerably more.  Other than that, we love it and it fits in our garage.  

[whoofit]

[quote source="/post/9064/thread" timestamp="1428622025" author="@sandroad"]The emission control systems on gas engines are complex too, but manufacturers perfected (so to speak) those and it's hard to argue against the significantly cleaner air we all breathe because of the Clean Air Act. I'm really impressed with progress on clean diesel and remain optimistic that manufacturers will (eventually) get that right too. In the meantime, I for one am very happy to live in a country with a Clean Air Act. [/quote][p]I am too. Impressed both with how diesel emissions have improved and by how much cleaner the air is in general. I don't agree with [strong]all[/strong] of the Clean Air Act, and [strong]all[/strong] of what is leveraged in the name of it, but in general it is a good thing for sure.[/p][p]
[/p][p]My only wish is that the manufacturers would somehow be more responsible for perfecting these methods by design versus using the masses as Guinea Pigs. I remember the nightmare of being a mechanic in the early 80's. Plagued with problems that are largely gone today.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Living smack dab in the middle of the "tailpipe of the nation" I appreciate clean air.
[/p]