Grey Water Tank Problem

[whoofit]

I believe it is impossible to have an improperly vented fresh water tank to begin with. The vent is molded into the plastic hatch as part of the fill line that does not protrude into the tank at all. A little screened vent hole right next to the fill port. Suppose it could be blocked at the hatch..

You'll get some spitting just before it filled when under pressure from a city line. This is true in ours at least.

[kycamper]

OK. We seemed to fix the grey tank problem. My rig is up at D & H right now, and they have shortened the vent pipe, as discussed in this tread. It is under warranty.

BUT WAIT !!!!  THERE"S MORE  !!!

I asked the tech working on my trailer if there was a problem with the grey tank vent being too long, WOULDN'T IT FOLLOW THAT THE VENT IN THE BLACK TANK IS TOO LONG ALSO !!!
Unfortunately, he said he can't " fix something that isn't broken, under warranty," and I would be on the hook for the three hours labor.

My thought is that Don Neufelder had emailed me that it was a problem with an installer and has been rectified at the factory. That same workman also installed the vent in the BLACK TANK !!??

Am I opening up a can of worms here? With the trailer at my dealership, it sure would be nice to fix this now, if indeed there is a problem.

Thoughts ??
.

[charliem]

OK. We seemed to fix the grey tank problem. My rig is up at D & H right now, and they have shortened the vent pipe, as discussed in this tread. It is under warranty.

BUT WAIT !!!!  THERE"S MORE  !!!

I asked the tech working on my trailer if there was a problem with the grey tank vent being too long, WOULDN'T IT FOLLOW THAT THE VENT IN THE BLACK TANK IS TOO LONG ALSO !!!
Unfortunately, he said he can't " fix something that isn't broken, under warranty," and I would be on the hook for the three hours labor.

My thought is that Don Neufelder had emailed me that it was a problem with an installer and has been rectified at the factory. That same workman also installed the vent in the BLACK TANK !!??

Am I opening up a can of worms here? With the trailer at my dealership, it sure would be nice to fix this now, if indeed there is a problem.

Thoughts ??
.

[font size="3"]You raise a valid point and one that I had also though of. The black tank geometry is different from the gray tank in that the black tank vents itself every time the toilet is used. If the vent pipe extends too far into the tank any trapped air will exhaust up through the toilet when it is flushed. If the tank is heavily used and fills up through normal usage you might observe some burping when you flush. If you have something like SeeLevel installed and can correlate the burping to a partially filled tank that might be evidence of a vent problem. I have a SeeLevel and the black tank flusher so I can fill the tank without operating the toilet flush valve. I have done this until water is standing in the toilet pipe with no indication of trouble. To be honest I really didn't pursue this too far because I really didn't want to find another problem  :-[  Old timers (before the advent of reliable tank level indicators) will advise "when the toilet burps it's time to empty." If the vent pipe is properly installed the vent pipe and the toilet stem should both submerge at about the same time. [/font][font size="3"] The only other symptom I can think of is toilet burping when you know the tank is only 2/3 full or so. That would indicate the vent pipe is submerged and gasses are building up until the toilet is flushed.

So in summary, yes, there is a potential problem here. But until I encounter trouble I'm not going to worry about it. It may be that I lucked out and others will have problems. I guess we can then start a new thread and work through it all over again  
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[aggie79]

[p]As part of my research that will hopefully lead to a purchase of a CL TT, I've read this thread with great interest.[/p][p]
[/p][p]A friend of mine has an older non-CL TT.  While he hasn't had the issue with the vent stack being placed to low into the gray water tank, he has had trouble with air admittance valves.  He has replaced all of his sink drain traps and AAVs with Hepvo valves. Since the upgrades, he has had no problem with grey water drains.
[/p]
[a]http://www.hepvo.com/[/a]

[jeeps]

[font size="3"]Deja vu.   [/font]

[aggie79]

Oops.  Sorry about that.  Hadn't reached that thread yet.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Update: Mystery solved: Problem returns.

An update on my gray water tank problem. I originally suspected the gray vent pipe was pushed too far into the tank. We all discussed and cussed the issue. Some brave souls (Brenda/Bryce and nd1979) even removed the tank and fixed the problem. I took my CL to CW for warranty, they verified the problem, replaced an Air Admittance Valve, and claimed success. We all said no way, but the CW techs assured me they saw and fixed this problem all the time. Well, the burping sink problem was fixed, but I've had consistent sewer odor problems ever since. That should have been my first clue.

Someone on the Lance Owners forum mentioned a similar odor problem and suggested a bad AAV. He said the cheap AAVs from RV stores can easily leak from the gray tank. That would explain my observations. He suggested a better AAV from Home depot:

[a href="http://www.homedepot.com/p/STUDOR-Redi-Vent-with-ABS-Adapter-Valve-20362/203158640"]http://www.homedepot.com/p/STUDOR-Redi-Vent-with-ABS-Adapter-Valve-20362/203158640[/a]

I bought two and replaced both kitchen and bath. Wala! Odor seems to be gone, but my original burping sink is back. Science and technology overcomes fear, superstition, and most RV techs!!!    I'm really ticked because now the trailer warranty is gone and I'll have to fix or pay for the tank removal and repair myself. When in doubt, trust yourself!! Guess I'll review the posted instructions when I get home. Grrrrrrrr.

The AAV replacement is an easy fix that I'd recommend to all with a few minutes time and $36.
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[gbpack]

Charlie,
It doesn't hurt to make the case that the problem that existed under warranty and hasn't been successfully resolved. I would ask Don to stand by the product and their warranty.

[charliem]

[quote timestamp="1445003573" author="@gbpack" source="/post/16082/thread"]Charlie,
It doesn't hurt to make the case that the problem that existed under warranty and hasn't been successfully resolved. I would ask Don to stand by the product and their warranty.[/quote]Agreed, but I'm a bit leary of taking it back to CW. If they thought they fixed it by replacing the AAV, who knows what they might do to it if I told them to drop the tank and cut the vent pipe. I'm listening to my inner self saying "If you want it done right, do it yourself." And I'm going to have to remove the straps anyway to insulate the hot/cold water pipes so I might as well do it myself. I guess that's why I'm retired  8-)

[jerrybeaird]

I agree with you Charlie as my tank was installed very poorly, with brakets mis-aligned and screws crooked and barely hitting the frame.  I did not want some "tech" just slapping it back in, so I decided to fix it myself.

[gbpack]

Understood, but I was talking about CL. They should stand by their product. Still, if I could do the fix myself I would do the same. Joan

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Yes, I agree CL should cover the cost until it's fixed. But my nearest fix it shop is the CW where the boobs assured me they fixed it by replacing the AAV. If the fix was easily verified or visible I would take it back and make them fix it, but it's not. CW is 45 minutes away so I'd have to drive the CL there, leave it, drive back home, drive back to pick it up, and tow it back home. Four trips. Then I'd have to test the tank, and if it wasn't fixed, start all over again. If I do it myself the cost will be minimal and it will get done right. My time is free now and I've got some other stuff to do at the same time. Unfortunately, with this industry, it's true more than ever: "If you want it done right, do it yourself."
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[craigd]

It appears that my 2015 14DBS has the same issue, finally got around to installing my See Level Gauges a couple months ago and just got back from a 5 week cross country camping trip. It appears I am getting a 58% fill on my grey water tank all others are fine, although the most I have put into my black water is 50%. Thanks all for the great info, now just have to figure out when I want to drop tank to fix.

[kycamper]

After 8659 views of this topic, let me wrap up my experience. After my toilet "erupted" twice, when I pressed the foot valve, it became VERY clear to me that the black tank had a vent pipe that was too long, also. The gases had no where to go but into the toilet!! After going round and round, I told Don at CL and D&H that I wanted the tank dropped and that if I was wrong, I would pay for the labor. I WAS RIGHT. CL payed for the fix, and my toilet works just fine now. 
Just an aside....nobody ever called Don to tell him how they loved their trailer. He had an impossible job. Throughout my dealings with him, he was always fair and professional. My sense of it is that Thor made life hard for him, and he is no longer there. I hope the new guy treats warranty issues like Don did. 
Adios, Don. My best wishes to you. You had a very tough job to do, and you did it very well. New guy......weld issues??!! Oh my!!