Sanity Check. Input Wanted.

[hogtyd]

[quote source="/post/7146/thread" timestamp="1424795578" author="@whoofit"]Hi Graham.

The brake controller is additional. What the towing package gives you is the hitch, sensors and anti sway programmed into the vehicle. It's supposedly a way of sensing sway and automatically applying the brakes at each wheel independently to help reduce it. Sounds like a gas guzzling solution to a point but I'm not sure. Sway bars may be needed.

The Prodigy is already mounted though.[/quote]Gotcha...I saw the reference to the anti-sway feature and made an assumption it included the brake controller as well.  Sounds like a worth-while feature to have regardless, as long as it only intervenes when needed.  

-Graham

[whoofit]

[p]Hi Pinstriper.

This is very bad news to say the least. Just when I thought I was fairly good to go this pops up. I wonder if the dealership is gonna be able to weigh this trailer for me when I arrive tomorrow. Like you said it may be trouble even just pulling it home dry and new.

Just when I thought there was no doom.

The ~10k savings is on the one time purchase of the "forever" trailer. Maybe forever just got a couple useful years shorter?

We'll see how she pulls tomorrow.

Don't think I'm not sweating a bit now from your advice. If we ever share the road it will not be my fault, of this you can be certain.[/p][p]
[/p][p]PS I meant to say If there is an accident or something above. Geez that last statement of mine sounded a tad bit rude...heh
[/p]

[whoofit]

[quote source="/post/7144/thread" timestamp="1424795470" author="@exploringcarolina"]Congrats on your TT down payment/purchase and Hope to see you on the road, soon!

[/quote][p]Thanks Exploringcarolina![/p][p]
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[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/7146/thread" timestamp="1424795578" author="@whoofit"] What the towing package gives you is the hitch, sensors and anti sway programmed into the vehicle. It's supposedly a way of sensing sway and automatically applying the brakes at each wheel independently to help reduce it. Sounds like a gas guzzling solution to a point but I'm not sure. Sway bars may be needed.[/quote]That programming only kicks in when things get really bad (like about lose control). It does not adjust continuously. For a small tow vehicle you should absolutely have a passive sway control system that's always there. I'm not sure if the escape supports weight distributing hitches, but you'll at least want a friction-based sway bar.

[whoofit]

I've been eyeing them too Tinker. I think the sway bars are gonna be the best way all-around. I'll need to talk to Ford about this. I am surprised they didn't try to sell me some when they installed the controller. I might just be incompatibility. THAT's why I ask where there is true knowledge in a place like this.

This programming kicks in in normal slippery conditions. Up here with all the snow we've had I've seen it a few times this winter.

I have towed already with this TV. I run a small business that generates some construction debris. I usually pull the 8x12 utility trailer with my E250 but have made a couple runs to the scrap yard with the Escape. 900lbs of trailer and up to 2200lbs of waste in the load. All hilly terrain but mostly 40mph or so. I am pretty impressed with what I've seen.

But that is a far cry from 1000 miles at 55mph and all the additional frontal area of the 16DB....

[david]

Hi David.

It's 240hp at 5000rpm and makes 270ft/lb torque at 3000 rpm. It is the 2.0 litre Eco Boost 4cyl intercooled turbo. Thing is real strong for a 4cyl. I question it's longevity in this TV role though. Do you see a problem with the HP and Torque specs for say 55mph 6-8% grade stuff? Thanks!

[p]As others have said, it isn't the available hp and torque, it is displacement. That engine has a turbocharger to be able to produce its 240 hp. That is very close to the numbers for the 3.5 liter engine in our Pathfinder. In normal driving use, you will get something like 30 mpg on the highway at 70 mph. That is somewhere close to 28 horse power required at a steady speed (modern gasoline engines produce 12 hp for every gph of gas burn rate). Every now and then you hit the pedal to the metal and produce 240 hp but only for a few seconds. With that useage/load profile the little engine will last a long while.[/p][p]
[/p][p]But when towing you will get about 13-14 mpg like most of us. That kicks it up to 53 hp at a steady 60 mph. That is putting a more serious load on the engine, and it is full time.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I think that the engine will be fine, but don't expect to tow 50,000 miles and get more than 100,000 miles out of the engine. But a few thousand miles until you move up to a bigger TV should work out ok.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Do consider sway control and maybe a light WD hitch. Your TV has a shorter wheel base than mine and that creates instability.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I am no where as pessimistic as Pinstriper. But you are on the edge of insanity. Stay away from the dark side.[/p][p]
[/p][p]David
[/p]

[djsamuel]

[p]Thanks DJ.

Looks like a smart thing to do. Do you like it for these long distance road trips well enough? Was hoping to get by a couple years still under warranty. Then go with a highlander or something.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Should I suspect the Camp Lite weights to be significantly off?[/p]

For us, the Ram is terrific.  We've towed from Florida to Arizona and Utah and the towing is very secure and stable.  To top it off, the comfort level of the Ram is outstanding, and we are not tired at all after a full day of driving.  It is a crew cab and there is plenty of room in the cab for 6 adults if necessary, although we haven't gone past four.

I have a 110 mile round trip to and from work, so since I don't want to pile the miles onto my tow vehicle, I have my daily driver; my old PT Cruiser with over 326,000 miles that keeps on chugging along.  Although I would LOVE to drive the Ram every day (it is that nice)I really don't want to put over 100 miles a day on it.  Plus it is a lot of vehicle for just me to travel to work.  In addition, the utility of having a pickup truck is well worth it; although I do live in a rural area.  Sometimes though; an adequate tow vehicle and daily driver can be mutually exclusive.

I would definitely NOT downsize your trailer.  If you do; you'll be wishing for a larger trailer when it comes time to replace the tow vehicle.  I would either limit the distance of towing your trailer with your current tow vehicle as you become aware if your rig's limitations; or do as we did and invest a bit in a used larger tow vehicle that can also be used for other uses.  

Hope this helps.

Doug

[pinstriper]

[quote timestamp="1424796321" source="/post/7152/thread" author="@whoofit"][p]Hi Pinstriper.

This is very bad news to say the least. Just when I thought I was fairly good to go this pops up. I wonder if the dealership is gonna be able to weigh this trailer for me when I arrive tomorrow. Like you said it may be trouble even just pulling it home dry and new.

Just when I thought there was no doom.

The ~10k savings is on the one time purchase of the "forever" trailer. Maybe forever just got a couple useful years shorter?

We'll see how she pulls tomorrow.

Don't think I'm not sweating a bit now from your advice. If we ever share the road it will not be my fault, of this you can be certain.[/p][p]
[/p][p]PS I meant to say If there is an accident or something above. Geez that last statement of mine sounded a tad bit rude...heh
[/p][/quote][p]You were talking about internet personas, and mine, here,  is to be the guy that says "you don't have enough tow vehicle". [/p][p]
[/p][p]You will have car dealers and TT dealers urging you to say "go for it", because they want to make the sale. So I try to be the voice of balance. [/p][p]
[/p][p]And as David noted, I may be on the pessimistic side, because I believe in overkilling the margin. Case in point, we're already thinking of upgrading from the '13 4Runner to a Sequoia, and will certainly do so before taking our towing outside the region and into cross-country trips. Many would call that unnecessary, and that's exactly the point. We want to err on the side of too much capability, not too little.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I think you will be fine to pull it home and to the scales. But you were talking about a 1,000 mile trip, and 6-8% grades.[/p][p]
[/p]

[whoofit]

[quote source="/post/7156/thread" timestamp="1424797935" author="@david"][quote source="/post/7126/thread" timestamp="1424788972" author="@whoofit"][/quote][p]
[/p][p]I am no where as pessimistic as Pinstriper. But you are on the edge of insanity. Stay away from the dark side.[/p][p]
[/p][p]David
[/p][/quote][p]David,[/p][p]
[/p][p]Truer words have never been spoken. I am just now recovering from a combination of shame, guilt and hilarious laughter after reading this. This is exactly where I place myself for even buying the dang trailer at all! It's also where I envisioned being with this combos roadworthiness. The confirmation is well received.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Thank you for your explanation. It was well conceived and formed. I only hope that future readers will benefit from this thread as much as I have. 13-14mpg would be good enough. The only downside is the Escape needs Premium fuel to achieve these specs, minus 9hp from Regular, but it's all good. Trade-in time is now scheduled to be within the next 50K.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
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[/p]

[whoofit]

Pinstriper,

I can definitely understand your persona. I'd venture a guess that more than a couple accidents could have been avoided by following your thought process. I'm not sure how to quantify that statement other than to give, as an example, a Semi pulling fifth wheel TT is safer than a 1Ton would be for various reasons.

Your point is well taken. You leave more room for the unforeseen. I'm cutting it too close to give a big thumbs-up to. I deeply appreciate your concern for our safety. I promise to NEVER sacrifice the safety of others. Though I might tick some off by driving slower than they'd like. Thank you!

And good luck with the upgrade! Looking forward to reading of this.

[gnies]

Hi, I do have the same vehicule than you but my travel trailer is the 13QBB. Maybe if you don't plan to buy a new TV this year you could rent a truck for the weekends that you go out for a camping trip? I don't know how much it cost but you could consider it for as temporary, I don't know maybe uhaul I think they rent ford f150 or similar truck and probably another rental company also do it? I just don't know what kind of trip and how often so not sure of the cost. The Escape is a nice towing vehicule but the 13QBB would be my maximum as I brings stuff with me like bike, BBQ, camping gear, sometime water, food, two propane tank, etc.. so for me I am sure I would exceed the weight limit with the 16DB.   Also regarding the Escape and Led lights on trailer, you will have a problem and you will need to buy an adapter, if you don't it will still operate but you will get a slight blink and the escape is not going to detect that you have a trailer so the sway control etc. will not be enabled. You can see my post on this forum about this issue (give me a minute I will find it for you)

EDIT: so here is my thread about the led lights on trailer and escape and it also assume that you added a brake controller and changed your 4way plug for a 7way one as the adapter is for a 7way one. If your trailer as regular lights and not led you won't need the adaptor


http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/490/ford-escape-light-problem-solution

[david]

Forgot to address the 1,000 mile trip and 6-8% grades issue.

From a pure hp/torque standpoint you will be fine. Your engine has same output as my Pathfinder does and we have done 1,000 mile trips and 6-8% grades with no problem. On an 8% grade we run at about 45 mph and the CVT transmission shifts down and kicks the engine up to about 3,500 rpm. That lets the engine pull without lugging.

Your engine will have to work that much harder on those grades and all of that hp/torque has to come from an engine that is much smaller than mine (3.5 liters), so it will wear faster. Also you don't want to overheat the engine while on a long uphill grade. So you might want to look into an exhaust gas temperature gauge which will give a good indication when you are overloading the engine. The turbo diesel boating guys use them all of the time to stay within sanity. Search the net and see if others have done that and how.

David

[whoofit]

DJ,

I'll have to keep the Ram on my shortlist. I have been in a few locally and people around here seem to like them too. A lot in fact. My brother will buy no other brand for plowing and other strenuous tasks he does regularly. It's good to hear they are comfortable for long hauls. Like I mentioned above I own an E250 for work. There is no way in Hades I'd be in that thing for 200 miles comfortable....lol.

Your point about the TT size is exactly where I made the decision to buy up instead of down. With the massive cargo hauling capacity of these Camp Lites a world of opportunities open up there. They can practically haul their own weight in cargo. So for future proofing the bigger trailer seemed best for us.

My wife is a nurse and works all weather conditions through the night which is why I was able to talk her into the "huge" Escape...lol Maybe a season or two of only taking bare essentials in the trailer will convince her for me we need a much larger vehicle!

Thanks man!

[whoofit]

Wow, Paul

Thanks for the heads-up! I don't even know if they are LED or not. Was only concern about the interior lighting for this before now. Truth be told I bought this trailer sight unseen from a dealer and have never set foot inside a Camp Lite. Bought it based on info here and elsewhere with a recommendation from a distant friend.

If worse comes to worse I suppose I could rent a truck. I have a 3/4 ton van I could use locally for point to point towing but not for road trips. It is less than ideal. It sounds like you take a lot of gear and have a great time with it. I'd say that is the most important part of all of this.

Thanks for the important info and personal experience with your combination!

[whoofit]

David,

Is this gauge commonly found in automotive use? Haven't heard of those using this before. It sounds like a great addition. If I can manage to keep it relatively normal all the time that would be brilliant. I'll have to check this one out closely. I do see the Escape being abused by this endeavor. But like you said a few thousand miles should be OK as long as the driver pays attention.