Help! First time TT buyer, considering Camplite 21BHS

[tbrady]

Heh, if only it had the bunk beds!  You made your point very well pinstriper and I agree.  Most of the issues I was reading about are minor annoyances.  

Is there much drop-off in quality since the Thor acquisition?  E.g. Even gleamb calls out that his is Pre-Thor.

[pinstriper]

Heh, if only it had the bunk beds!  You made your point very well pinstriper and I agree.  Most of the issues I was reading about are minor annoyances.  

Is there much drop-off in quality since the Thor acquisition?  E.g. Even gleamb calls out that his is Pre-Thor.

Hard to say. A lot of us have a "they moved my cheese" thing going about axles and roofs and wood cabinets and such.

I don't know that we have the experience base to compare QC results, it's more about design/engineering. Here's what has changed, at a very high level:

1) No more custom builds. At one time they would engage with you and alter base engineering. Examples would be floor plan changes like tilt-outs and such, or the custom bumper engineering to make them weight bearing for a rear hitch/platform/cargo carrier.

2) TPO (whatever that is) roofing instead of the aluminum sheets. Probably a wash, but confidence is higher in the aluminum sheeting.

3) Compressed azdul composite floors. May well be an improvement as the aluminum planks *may* have allowed road spray to work up through the floor when driving in heavy rain. Or that may have been other nooks and crannies around the wheel wells. OTOH the aluminum is without question bullet proof. Wait and see. The new flooring is not frigid to the feet, and looks attractive, so probably more wife-friendly on the lot from a sales perspective, like the wood doors (below).

4) Wood cabinet doors. Most of us say "ick". Probably adds 40# to the trailer dry weight. But they're selling to those who used to not want the aluminum/azdel doors, and the aluminum framed doors had corners that were sharp as razors. So....call it a push.

5) Single axles on the 14/16 series instead of duals. Factory is convinced this is better for preventing low tongue weight, and that's probably very true for those who don't load/balance their trailers well. A properly balanced trailer tows more smoothly with 2 axles, however. So...from the perspective of the masses, probably the correct decision. I do know that dual axles was, for us, the "killer app" for our purchase and I remain very happy for it. This alone swayed us from the RPod.

6) More "options" now standard. A lot of what is standard interior/accessories used to be part of an option package - that absolutely every dealer ordered on every rig. So simpler to deal with in the distribution channel.

7) Thor being Thor, they already had agreements with Camping World for service centers, that LL was too small for. So now Camping World have access to factory support and warranty. Big Win. Mom and Pop dealers come and go. Camping World is here to stay, like the cockroach.

Not sure if it was a Thor thing, but they seem to be using gas/electric water heaters instead of just gas now. Meh. Looks like power awnings are available now, which is a great thing.

[tbrady]

Thanks again...  I think my wife is convinced at this point and I'm close.  Time to start scouring the country for one I guess!

[david]

I think that Pinstriper's analysis above is fair and the only significant item in my mind is the change to single axles on the 14s and 16s. Two more issues to consider:

A few units have had cracked frame welds. This is apparently an isolated quality issue and for all I know they had some cracked welds pre Thor. The other is that LL themselves does not "approve" weight distribution hitches out of fears that they can bend the frame if tightened down too much. Some on this board use them on 21s and even some 16s with no problem. I think they work fine if you install light duty, ie 800 lb tongue weight hitches and don't tighten them too tight. Oh and also install some bolts in the bottom of the coupler to strengthen it- also a pre Thor issue.

David

[charliem]

[quote timestamp="1480908261" author="@pinstriper" source="/post/26242/thread"]
2) TPO (whatever that is) roofing instead of the aluminum sheets. Probably a wash, but confidence is higher in the aluminum sheeting.

[/quote][font size="3"]Thermoplastic olefin (TPO), or olefinic thermoplastic elastomers refer to polymer/filler blends usually consisting of some fraction of a thermoplastic, an elastomer or rubber, and usually a filler. Thermoplastics may include polypropylene (PP), polyethylene (PE), block copolymer polypropylene (BCPP), and others.

Glad you asked?   
[/font]

[charliem]

[font size="3"]One advantage of the TPO roof is it can be wrapped over the top edges and slightly down the sides. Lance does this, and along with minimizing roof penetrations, allows them to reduce leak potential. However, they still use some wood in the floor.
[/font]

[bgewin]

[quote timestamp="1480874891" author="@tbrady" source="/post/26223/thread"]Hi All, 

My family recently sold our pop-up and have been looking at TTs in the 19-24' range that has bunks and queen size bed.  I had never even heard of Livin Lite until yesterday and a lot about them is very appealing.

I would like a blunt assessment from any of you that have a Livin lite travel trailer about quality, functionality etc.  It seems that there isn't a trailer on the market that you could consider high quality but it looks like the Livin Lite's may have a little more duration in them seeing how they are built.

Also, we live in the Seattle area and the closest dealer seems to be in OR.  As often as it seems something needs to be fixed I'm not sure if its a good idea to buy one so far from home... thoughts?

And finally, the MSRP on the one we are looking at is like 38k!! (holy cow).  Any input into what we could reasonably negotiate this down to would be much appreciated as well.

thanks a ton
tim[/quote]Tim, I bought a 21BHS new about a year ago.  I paid around $28K from Sunny Island but I had to pay to have it towed to Colorado ($1,200).  I tried to buy from a local dealer in Colorado but they could not match the price from Sunny Island so I'm assuming I got it about as low as you can get it.  I looked at other TTs and was appalled at the poor quality.  When I discovered CL I was impressed by the quality.  Keep in mind no TT is perfect and you will discover minor issues.  But that's the nature of anything hand built.  Overall it's good quality and I'm confident it will last a long time.  After I bought my 21BHS I checked out a few Airstreams just out of curiosity.  They are very cool but the fit and finish quality are no better than a CL in my opinion.  What you pay for with the AS is style and name brand.

I do feel that for the price of the CL you don't get a lot of bells and whistles.  It's pretty bare.  You don't get much insulation, solar hooks ups (on 2016 model), cabinet drawers, etc for example.

[pegwillen]

Anyone know if the 2017s will be solar ready?  I am looking hard at a 21bhs to replace my custom Taylor Coach 16', as I am now a snowbird and the TC is a bit cramped.  TC builds custom, no stock on hand, but I would be waiting about two years to get a bigger one built, although the quality and customer service is remarkable (this is my second model).  Traveling with three birds (budgie, cockatiel, and pionus who need a top bunk with a window, and I need a real bed not the bottom bunk.  If there was a dealer nearby to Tucson I would be there now!  Thanks

[charliem]

Anyone know if the 2017s will be solar ready? 

[font size="3"]Don't get too hung up on the "solar ready". It's usually just a connector and a wire. It doesn't include a controller or panel and doesn't provide for optimum placement of the controller. This is an easily added item when the rest of the solar hardware is installed and the entire installation can be tailored to your particular needs. [/font]

[djmiller]

[quote source="/post/26258/thread" author="@pegwillen" timestamp="1480966935"]Anyone know if the 2017s will be solar ready?  I am looking hard at a 21bhs to replace my custom Taylor Coach 16', as I am now a snowbird and the TC is a bit cramped.  TC builds custom, no stock on hand, but I would be waiting about two years to get a bigger one built, although the quality and customer service is remarkable (this is my second model).  Traveling with three birds (budgie, cockatiel, and pionus who need a top bunk with a window, and I need a real bed not the bottom bunk.  If there was a dealer nearby to Tucson I would be there now!  Thanks
[/quote]All units are pre-wired with the Zamp Solar connector.  That consists of a connector where you would connect to your solar system.  It is connected through and in-line fuse to your battery.
Zamp is a popular RV portable solar system brand and happens to be the same one used on Zamp products but other than that any solar system could utilize this plug.

[david]

I was curious about the Zamp solar plug and googled it. Zamp makes a single wall mounted plug and a three plug unit that can mount on the roof. I suspect that Mr. Miller is talking about the single plug. I found one on Amazon for $8.49 here- https://www.amazon.com/Zamp-Solar-RVROOFSIDE-Sidewall-Port/dp/B00T36YVI4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480969221&sr=8-1&keywords=Zamp+Solar+Sidewall%2FRoof+Solar+Port

That plug as far as I know, is not proprietary to Zamp. I have them on a Battery Tender and you can buy them on Amazon for $5.25 for a pair- https://www.amazon.com/CES-Gauge-Quick-Disconnect-Harness/dp/B0057ZQJ12/ref=sr_1_50?ie=UTF8&qid=1480970118&sr=8-50&keywords=dc+connector

I was happy to find the Zamp wall plug. I may install one on my trailer battery box, so I can easily plug in my Battery Tender without removing the top. That would also be an easy way to connect a remote mounted solar panel.

David

[djmiller]

Your right David.... Zamp supplies the stickers for advertising I expect.  Yes just the single 2 pole plug.

[easwen]

Picture of the roof of my 2016 16 BHB.  This is what the factory install of the roof looks like.

Need I say more about the quality?

[easwen]

[buffresmgnt]

David, DJ -

Be very careful on the Zamp solar ports if you are using anything other than a Zamp solar panel system.  If you are using any other brand of solar panel than Zamp, the positive / negative wires will need to be reversed, i.e. The black negative wire will need to be connected to the positive pole of the battery and the red "hot" wire will need to be connected to the negative terminal on the battery, or you will need to purchase a connector that reverses polarity in the cabling.
That is the main reason that the Zamp sticker is applied to the trailer or battery box - if you try to hook up any other brand of solar system to the port you will smoke the plug and maybe damage the controller.

Check out the youtube video by RVFourSeasons.com on "What you need to know about Zamp solar plugs"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1V3OM-Z6Z8&sns=em

Steve