Help! First time TT buyer, considering Camplite 21BHS

[tbrady]

Hi All, 

My family recently sold our pop-up and have been looking at TTs in the 19-24' range that has bunks and queen size bed.  I had never even heard of Livin Lite until yesterday and a lot about them is very appealing.

I would like a blunt assessment from any of you that have a Livin lite travel trailer about quality, functionality etc.  It seems that there isn't a trailer on the market that you could consider high quality but it looks like the Livin Lite's may have a little more duration in them seeing how they are built.

Also, we live in the Seattle area and the closest dealer seems to be in OR.  As often as it seems something needs to be fixed I'm not sure if its a good idea to buy one so far from home... thoughts?

And finally, the MSRP on the one we are looking at is like 38k!! (holy cow).  Any input into what we could reasonably negotiate this down to would be much appreciated as well.

thanks a ton
tim

[fasteddieb]

Welcome!

If you do a search, you should be able to find my purchase/delivery experience with my 2014 21BHS. We were first time travel trailer owners as well.

It was built in 2013, but to give you an idea was about $10k cheaper than the price you quoted. This from Sunny Island RV in Indiana. I'll see if I can find that link and add it.

Found it:  [a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/83/21bhs"]http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/83/21bhs

A[/a]lso found the ad that led us to Sunny Island:


[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2924/14740141424_7115b3371a_z.jpg"]

That was the price we got, plus a $15 title transfer fee. The photo is not of our actual trailer, with minor differences.

[tbrady]

Thanks Eddie!  I read every post in that thread and um, the thing that bothers me the most is LL's customer service.  One thing that wasn't absolutely clear to me.  The electrical issue was ultimately the A/C not wired correctly correct?  Did LL ever end up paying for the repair?  

How have things been with the trailer since your initial growing pains?  Again, thanks for all the info!!  

[fasteddieb]

Good news: Yes, they paid for the repair.

Bad news: The problem recurred. Last time I tried to plug into a GFC outlet it tripped. Sure enough, I again have zero resistance between the neutral and ground at my 30A socket.

Right now, it's the only real issue we have with trailer. Need to get it back to Southland RV. Makes sense, since they know what the issue was last time (wiring to the A/C unit).

You might want to check with Sunny Island. If they're still a dealer and you can save that much, it might be worth a trip east to pick one up.

As an aside, we got a similar high price quote from a dealer west of Knoxville, TN. I guess they were just hoping people wouldn't comparison shop.

[tbrady]

So, have you been happy with it in general?  Would you buy it again?  Right now the other trailer on our shortlist is the Coachment Apex which seems fairly well-built, aluminum framing, azdel walls etc, and over 10k cheaper.  It would be hard to spend 30k on a trailer and it not be grade A across the board for me, then again my expectations might not be realistic!

[charliem]

[font size="3"]As a reference point we have had our 2013 Camplite 21RBS for 3 years. This is our second camper so we came at it with some experience and expectations. We've spent 249 nights in it and towed it 32K miles. We have incorporated extensive mods to make it ours and I would definitely buy it again. The only other camper I would consider is a Lance, but it is wider, heavier, and even more expensive. The design of the CL is excellent. The build quality, while not perfect, is better than most I've seen. The lack of rust, mold and rot is a major reason we bought the CL. Most of our camping is at state or national parks (electricity and water), with some boondocking and some full hookups. For the two of us, no kids and no pets, it's ideal.[/font]

[pinstriper]

[quote source="/post/26229/thread" author="@tbrady" timestamp="1480892408"]So, have you been happy with it in general?  Would you buy it again?  Right now the other trailer on our shortlist is the Coachment Apex which seems fairly well-built, aluminum framing, azdel walls etc, and over 10k cheaper.  It would be hard to spend 30k on a trailer and it not be grade A across the board for me, then again my expectations might not be realistic![/quote]Rubber roof, steel frame.

So, heavier than a true all-aluminum frame, but in a larger trailer maybe that's an ok thing - I frankly worry about the aluminum frame on trailers actually requiring WDH.

My roof is aluminum, one piece. Yeah, the current models aren't made that way anymore. Bummer.

You aren't looking in anything as small as ours, but despite what the factory says, I far prefer the dual axles on my 14DBS. 

In my size, the only comparables don't have a slideout, other than the beds are tent expansions. Pass on that.

In your size, maybe the differences aren't as stark as at my end of the product line.

I don't see any mention of what the floors are made of. I presume plywood. Dealbreaker.

[daplumbr]

If you're going from a popup to a travel trailer, don't forget about the tow vehicle needed to pull it around! The MSRP on RVs is a mythical number that varies by dealer/location/planet alignment/day of the week/etc. Look around at offering prices listed on-line to get a more realistic idea of selling price. If you decide to use the "MSRP" as a "number", it's possible to get at least 25% off as a starting point. Livin Lite has arrangements for warranty work at Camping World locations, so you don't necessarily have to go back to your selling dealer for repairs/maintenance. Lots of folks have bought long distance just to get a good dealer. I would recommend you do that too, because a good dealer will help make sure the trailer is in good shape to begin with. 

[tbrady]

re: I don't see any mention of what the floors are made of. I presume plywood. Dealbreaker.

Yes, the floors in the Apex are plywood.  Other than Livin Lite and Airstream (I assume) who else even uses aluminum for flooring?  

I guess what is bugging me the most is that I would be paying significantly more for a similar Livin Lite trailer.  I would be totally ok with it if I felt the underlying quality was worth it.  I've spent several hours on this forum today and maybe all the "issues" I've been reading about are worrying me.  I spent about an equal amount of time in the Coachmen forums and and I honestly don't get a sense that Livin Lite's are considerably better.  Sorry if that sounds offensive but I'm about to spend 30k+ and I want to feel good about it... 

Anyway, I really appreciate all the input!!


As far as tow vehicle goes we are fine, using Toyota Tundra so we can pull plenty with it.  

[pinstriper]

[quote timestamp="1480899325" author="@tbrady" source="/post/26234/thread"]
re: I don't see any mention of what the floors are made of. I presume plywood. Dealbreaker.

Yes, the floors in the Apex are plywood.  Other than Livin Lite and Airstream (I assume) who else even uses aluminum for flooring?  

I guess what is bugging me the most is that I would be paying significantly more for a similar Livin Lite trailer.  I would be totally ok with it if I felt the underlying quality was worth it.  I've spent several hours on this forum today and maybe all the "issues" I've been reading about are worrying me.  I spent about an equal amount of time in the Coachmen forums and and I honestly don't get a sense that Livin Lite's are considerably better.  Sorry if that sounds offensive but I'm about to spend 30k+ and I want to feel good about it... 

Anyway, I really appreciate all the input!!


As far as tow vehicle goes we are fine, using Toyota Tundra so we can pull plenty with it.  


[/quote]If you want to read about people with RV issues, go to RV.com and ask about anyone's experience after a leak. Pay attention to the parts about mold inside the walls/floor.

Then re-think the part where you shrug off the plywood floor because nobody else does it.

Also, I believe Airstreams are plywood underneath the aluminum skins, including the floors. You can google up some Airstream restoration projects for details.

This whole thing about CL quality is what Mark Twain was talking about when he said that a cat that jumps on a hot stove will never jump on a hot stove again; it will also never jump on a cold stove again. Point being don't overlearn the lesson. Everything you've read about are minor/easily correctable issues.

People are conditioned to quality theatre things like J.D. Powers and stuff. I call BS. The test of an automobile's quality isn't initial quality satisfaction on a new vehicle. It's about what the vehicle is like when it's 5 years old, 10 years old, 15 years old. That's where Toyota got its reputation.

Think about whether you'd buy a 10 year old travel trailer, and ask why not ? Look at the drop in value after 5 years. Hell, look at the prices of trailers on dealers' lots that are 2-3 years old and ask why they lose 75% of the original price. Answer: Because of the problems that are baked in from the start in the construction. A new trailer with a plywood floor is that albatross 5 years from now and totaled by 10.

[kycamper]

You can aways buy mine!! I'd buy it again, in a heartbeat. Wife wants a Class A.....go figure!! Look in "for sale" for info!

[charliem]

[font size="3"]The Apex floors include multiple Luan plywood layers. The problem with wood in the floors is rot from undetected leaks. ALL campers will eventually leak. Seals separate due to flexing from travel. Toilets and showers will occasionally leak. Window seals can degrade. The short term effect of these leaks can be mold; the long term effect is rot. Floor rot is usually undetected until floor replacement is necessary. Even Airstream uses plywood flooring. Check on the Airstream forums and you'll find the first thing required to restore an old AS is to remove and replace the floor. Unfortunately, due to the way campers are made, that means removing everything inside and sometimes parts of walls.

All that said, rot on exposed wood such as trim and cabinet surfacing is annoying, but not catastrophic and it is not likely to occur anyway. If you see it you can fix the leak and repair the damage before it becomes excessive. That's why I don't get so concerned with  the new wood cabinet doors. Heavy yes; rot liability no.  Most modern campers have gone to aluminum frame laminated wall construction and aluminum/ply/rubber roofs. The ply/rubber roofing is not ideal but it is repairable. The floor is a totally different situation. [/font]

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/26236/thread" author="@gleamb" timestamp="1480902216"]You can aways buy mine!! I'd buy it again, in a heartbeat. Wife wants a Class A.....go figure!! Look in "for sale" for info![/quote][font size="3"]Now here's a deal you should seriously consider if you can go a 21RBS. Pre-Thor, the bugs have been worked out and fixed, all the aluminum chips vacuumed up, a sink the size of a whirlpool installed. Check it out.[/font]

[pinstriper]

[quote timestamp="1480902663" source="/post/26238/thread" author="@charliem"][quote timestamp="1480902216" author="@gleamb" source="/post/26236/thread"]You can aways buy mine!! I'd buy it again, in a heartbeat. Wife wants a Class A.....go figure!! Look in "for sale" for info![/quote][font size="3"]Now here's a deal you should seriously consider.[/font]
[/quote]True, that. No joke.

[fasteddieb]

We considered an Airstream, and even joined Airforums. Nice people there, and we were welcomed at one of their rallies with our SOB*.

But they do have plywood floors, and the problems owners faced after sometimes only 5 years were depressing.