Boondocking power options

[fasteddieb]

Karen and I have never in two years camped more than one night without access to power.

We are planning a trip to Lakeland for the Sun 'n' Fun event, and going from there to a winery for a night also with no power available.

We are still on our original 12v battery, which may be showing its age.

A few questions:

1) If we were buying a replacement battery as a preventive measure, would it make sense to just buy the new one, charge it up and carry it in the trailer so as to swap it out if and when the original battery runs out of juice?
If so, what's a decent replacement battery that might be had at Walmart, Advanced, O'Reilly's or somewhere similar?

2) How long does it typically take for a TV to fully charge a depleted battery? Does it ever make sense to just start the TV and let it charge for a while? Would a couple hours from Lakeland to the east coast do it?

3) Just got a Harbor Freight mailer. They're offering a "45 Watt Solar Panel 10 Piece Kit", marked down to about $140:

[a href="http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-10-pc-kit-68751.html"]http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-10-pc-kit-68751.html[/a]


[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_24009.jpg"]

Any thoughts on this? It includes the disclaimer: "Requires 12 volt storage battery and 300 watt power inverter (sold separately)." What's up with that? There is a manual online I may download and check out.

4) As a final option, we have a Honda 2kw generator we could carry as a last resort. Not crazy about carrying a fueled generator in the trailer, though.

Just looking to start a discussion on the best way to go.

Thanks in advance! Hope this prompts a discussion that might be informative to others as well.

[david]

This has been discussed in other threads, but let me summarize what I know or think I know:

1. Normal boondocking requires about 15 amp hours of power each day, unless you use the fridge on 12V (use propane) or run the propane furnace. Maybe 30 amp hours if you run a fan all night.

2. A typical battery installed by your dealer is a Group 27 and has a capacity of 70 amp hours.

3. You don't want to discharge your battery more than 50% for best life, so the battery above has a real world capacity of 35 amp hours. That is enough for 2 days of normal use.

4. The TV connector charges at about 10-15 amps while driving, less while idling. You can increase this by directly connecting your TV's battery to the trailer with jumper cables and let the engine idle. Maybe 30 amps. Charlie has measured it and I am sure that he will chime in.

5. If you hook up your Honda to the shore power connection it will charge at about 40 amps (I think that is the rating of the converter on most LLs) and drop to 25, 15, and 10 amps as the battery charges. It will probably take an hour and a half or so to bring a Group 27 battery up from 50% to 90%. It will take much longer to get to 100% so you really want to stop at 90%.

6. If you have sun (and where we have camped, we never do) solar panels are a good solution. Here are several stand alone panels for a bit over $100 for 100 watts and a solar panel kit for $191: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_6?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=100+watt+solar+panel&sprefix=100+wa%2Caps%2C301. If you want to just set it up and forget about it, get a kit or a panel and controller. If you monitor it you can just hook the panel directly to the battery and disconnect when full.

7. A 100 watt solar panel will provide enough power to charge 25 amp hours on a sunny day. So one 100 watt panel will keep you going nearly forever with a cloudy day every third day.

8. The inverter mentioned in the ad is if you want to convert 12V DC to 120V AC. Most of us don't need AC.

9. The cheapest solution of all to your DC needs is to replace your single battery with a pair of 6V golf cart batteries wired in series. That will give you 220 amp hours of rated capacity or 110 real amp hours, enough to keep you going for a full week without moving.

10. If you buy golf cart batteries, you know it is a true deep cycle battery that will last through hundreds, maybe a thousand charge/discharge cycles. With any other type of battery it is iffy and they may not last. Two indicators (but not definitive) of a deep cycle battery: an amp hour rating stamped on the side and fllling caps. AGMs don't have filling caps and are inherently deep cycle (as well as suitable for starting) but cost three times as much, but they are entirely suitable for RV use.

I prefer 6V golf cart batteries, not the least of which is they work well. Another is that you can check their charge with a simple hydrometer. You do have to check and add water a couple of times each year.

You can use one or more of the foregoing to cover your power needs- nothing for a day or two, recharge with the TV if you are moving, use the Honda when all else fails, etc.

David

[daplumbr]

The above is nice summary. For some additional specific brands for both charging systems and batteries, here are things I like. 

This outfit has both portable and fixed mount systems for boats and RVs. They tend to the expensive side, but I can vouch for the company and the equipment. 

http://www.solar-electric.com/solar-panels-mounts-kits-accessories/prsy/rvandsmbasoc.html

I like and use Duracell AGM marine batteries. They make a variety of sizes, including those common in RVs as well as golf cart size. I have 2 group size 31 in my camper and 4 group size 31 at my cabin and have plenty of power both places. I get them at Sams Club for excellent prices. 

http://www.samsclub.com/sams/topic/duracell-agm-batteries?rtype=item&rid=prod3590232&action=item_overlap&iid=prod3590232&xid=topic_pdp

[mitch]

What David said.  Also, in my opinion the 45 watt setup you looked at isn't enough watts to be really provide the power you need in the time you have.  It will provide power, just not enough.

[charliem]

Eddie,

Now is your chance to buy two golf cart batts. Follow David's advice. For a chemical guy, he's pretty good. Merlin likes the AGMs, but they're $$$.

My only nit with David is I've never seen a dealer put in a Gp27. Most use Gp24s, but probably dealer dependent.

[pinstriper]

The above makes my head hurt, though I am sure at least one of them knows what he's talking about.

My recommendation: skip the winery. Get yourself a bottle of Crown Royal Black. More fun in a bottle of hooch than a 6er of wine, and you can stay at a campsite with power, water, and sewer (that's called a Trifecta, by the way). If you also score cable TV, it's The Grand Slam.

Winery events full of snobs, anyway. Like a dog show.

[swbc150]

[p]I have a 150Watt Portable Solar Foldup Panel Kit (2-Panels), came with everything I need to recharge my RV Battery.
I haven't used it yet but hope to in mid-April as I will be dry camping. I paid $550 for the Entire Kit w/shipping, their Portable kit has changed a bit, now it is a 100Watt kit.[/p][p]Mine did include a 800W inverter.[/p][p]http://bhasolar.com/?page_id=96

I have a 4600Watt Solar System on my Home and being so pleased with it and knowing the benefits with Solar I went ahead and got this 150 watt RV kit.[/p]

[montedtrotter1]

Good Luck on your decision Fast Eddie! One more thing to think about:

 Using two golf cart batteries may increase your tongue weight somewhat, I know we have had this conversation in the past. I  have the two golf cart batteries, two propane tanks, power jack, and metal tray for the cargo area (slide out) and my tongue weight is right at 700 lbs. I think you mentioned yours was near 700 lbs. one time in the past.

What I am doing now is loading more stuff in the back of the trailer (even clothes when driving) to keep the weight down. I only keep lite weight stuff in the pass through and put heavy electrical cords, hoses in the storage compartment in the slide out in the middle of the trailer.

Again good luck!

[daplumbr]

[quote source="/post/20067/thread" timestamp="1459410951" author="@swbc150"][p]I have a 150Watt Portable Solar Foldup Panel Kit (2-Panels), came with everything I need to recharge my RV Battery.
I haven't used it yet but hope to in mid-April as I will be dry camping. I paid $550 for the Entire Kit w/shipping, their Portable kit has changed a bit, now it is a 100Watt kit.[/p][p]Mine did include a 800W inverter.[/p][p]http://bhasolar.com/?page_id=96

I have a 4600Watt Solar System on my Home and being so pleased with it and knowing the benefits with Solar I went ahead and got this 150 watt RV kit.[/p][/quote]Thanks for including the link. Looks like another high quality portable solution.


As an aside, is the 4.6KW system on your home on the grid or off the grid? 

[fasteddieb]

Thanks to all  the considered replies - I'm going to bookmark this thread.

As far as the 2x6v batteries, Monte is right about the weight issue. My Ford Flex calls for 450 lb max tongue weight. Though LivinLite advertised 440 lb tongue weight for the 21BHS, my real world, lightly loaded number was 625 lbs.

Though I've had the receiver reinforced and have towed successfully for  about 9,000 miles, I'm hesitant to add any weight at all to the tongue. It looks to me at first glance that the second 6v battery could add about 60 lbs.

Just curious - has anyone gone to the trouble to move their battery(s) aft to mitigate the hit to the tongue weight?

Anyway, I think we're going to address this in stages to budget out the expense.

For right now, I'd like to replace the existing battery. It's at least a couple years old, and has been fully depleted on a handful of occasions. So, I'm open to specific recommendations on brands and models to replace it. I'm willing to spend extra for AGM, and might even consider lithium iron if not nosebleedingly expensive.

And then, in the near future, look into solar. I'd like to hear about swbc's experience with his system - $500 is doable for us.

Thanks all, and I hope others are benefitting from this as well.

[david]

You can relocate your batteries to the aft bumper. You will need to build a mounting for the battery box, maybe out of aluminum angle, bent and bolted or pop riveted at the corners and then bolted to the bumper. You will need to run a heavy cable- 10 gauge minimum from the converter back to the batteries. The batteries will be charged from the converter or the TV which feeds to the converter.

Notice that I said batterIES. If you do it, then do it for a pair of GC batteries. You will probably take at least 100 lbs off of the tongue weight with 70 lbs removed from the tongue and 150 lbs added to the bumper.

You can buy a $500 package, but please consider the $191 one that I referenced above. Same thing but no inverter (converts battery power to household 120V AC).

David

[fasteddieb]

You can relocate your batteries to the aft bumper. You will need to build a mounting for the battery box, maybe out of aluminum angle, bent and bolted or pop riveted at the corners and then bolted to the bumper. You will need to run a heavy cable- 10 gauge minimum from the converter back to the batteries. The batteries will be charged from the converter or the TV which feeds to the converter.

Notice that I said batterIES. If you do it, then do it for a pair of GC batteries. You will probably take at least 100 lbs off of the tongue weight with 70 lbs removed from the tongue and 150 lbs added to the bumper.

You can buy a $500 package, but please consider the $191 one that I referenced above. Same thing but no inverter (converts battery power to household 120V AC).

David

Thanks.

Is it a given the rear bumper can hold that 150 lbs? I've seen concerns about even bicycles being placed back there. 

Am I correct the converter is under the fridge somewhere? If so the cable run should be no more than the long run to the front-mounted battery.

I will take a look at the solar unit you recommended - I think I missed it the first time around. I agree the inverter is superfluous, plus I already have a small one if 110v is ever essential. And now that I think of it, the Flex has 110v outlet in the back seat as well.

edited to add: your link goes to a lot of different search results. Are you talking about http://www.amazon.com/WindyNation-Complete-Off-Grid-Controller-Connectors/dp/B00JML23X0/ref=sr_1_2?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1459445071&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=100+watt+solar+panel&psc=1

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Interesting idea, batteries on the rear. The factory bumper should be fine. The batteries, though heavier, will not impose the torque load that cantilevered bicycles do. You'll have to make the rack and really tie them down because they'll get more whiplash back there than on the tongue. David's correct on wire size though I'd go with #8 or even #6 copper. Easily obtained at home improvement stores. Geometry being what it is you gain almost a pound for every pound you take off the tongue and you gain another 1/2 pound for every pound you hang on the bumper. Put 2 golfers on the back, wire it with heavy wire, and you're ready to go off the grid. Add solar someday and we won't hear from you for months.  8-)   

Camp on!
[/font]

[swbc150]

fasteddieb,
that looks like a decent kit for the money.

I Dry Camp 99% of the time, the only time I use shore power is during my Snowbirding in Arizona.

I didn't have to order my BHA Solar kit with the inverter, I did so just to be prepared. I went with the BHA kit because I already knew of the Solar benefits and being able to understand what I was reading in their spec sheet compared to other portable solar kits on the market, which did cost less.
This is a Portable Kit meaning I can place my Solar Panels on the ground so they stay in the Sunlight, while my Bearcat can stay in the shade.

Merlin,
My 4.6KW system ( 2 1/2 yrs old) is presently tied to the Grid, so at night I pull power off of the grid but against my Net Power Companies Meter. To be off of the Grid would of added way more expense to the setup as for the needed batteries.

My electric Bill is $0 for the last 2 1/2 yrs and with 3,211 kWh of cumulative energy credits built up on the Power Company Net Meter, I don't see that changing other than adding more energy credits.

[david]

fasteddieb:

Yes, that is the one. On the same page are some stand alone 100 watt solar panels for a bit over $100 that you could just hook to your batteries. You would have to monitor the state of charge and disconnect them when near 100%. But the controller in the kit makes it a set and forget solution.

David