Single axle 16 TBS ??

[charliem]

[quote timestamp="1450970414" author="@popup2012" source="/post/17323/thread"]How has the axle change affected trailer height? The change from 13 to 15 in tires must have made it taller.[/quote]Really not an issue. Nominally the added two inches in diameter would add just one inch to the height, but that is further complicated by the individual tire tread width and tread to sidewall height (65%, 70%, 75%) ratio. Add to that trailer weight, tire inflation, and temperature effects and it still results in something pretty small.

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/17318/thread" timestamp="1450967760" author="@sandroad"]Major bummer. I'll chime in that the dual axle on our 16TBS was a major selling point and tipped the scale in our decision from a Rpod to a Camplite. I consider dual axles a major safety advantage and years of towing experience shows that dual axle trailers track better. With full tanks and a full load, the 600 lb GVWR decrease of the single axle is significant loss in safety margin. Finally, when I absolutely have to stop that much weight, I consider 4 tires much safer than 2. And really finally, trailers 16 feet and longer look fragile to me on 1 tire per side. [/quote][font size="3"]I'll second Merlin on this. Certainly the reduced safety margin and blowout issues are obvious. The braking performance is  very important, but the answer is not crystal clear to me. True there is almost 2X the rubber on the ground, but there is only half the weight per square inch. Friction force is usually directly proportional to normal force (weight), but there are other factors. I generally I feel more comfortable with more rather than less surface area in contact, especially in slick road conditions. In wet weather the extra two brakes should also reduce the possibility of total lockup due to a wet brake.[/font]

[daplumbr]

[quote source="/post/17320/thread" timestamp="1450969416" author="@dan"]I can confirm that the 16TBS is now being made single axle.  I placed an order for a 16TBS in mid October fully expecting a dual axle trailer, and then while trolling the Livin Lite Web site, came across an "updated" spec sheet for the 16TBS that showed a single 4400lb axle with electric brake.  Called the dealer, who had no idea about the change.  He called the factory, and a week later I got a call advising that the switch had been made to single axle and that the trailer could not be built with a dual axle.  After some thinking and figuring I have decided to purchase the trailer anyway, but I was pretty p.o.'d about the way it was handled.  Not sure what I would have done if the first time I found out about the axle switch was when I showed up to pick up the trailer.[/quote]
I had to calm down a bit before commenting on this post. Living Lite made major, material changes to a camper (GVWR, structure, function, and aesthetics) and apparently didn't tell a dealer and for sure didn't tell a customer pre-order. Those are all decision factors for a major purchase. The industry already has a huge trust issue. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? 

[pinstriper]

[quote timestamp="1450980835" author="@sandroad" source="/post/17329/thread"][quote timestamp="1450969416" source="/post/17320/thread" author="@dan"]I can confirm that the 16TBS is now being made single axle.  I placed an order for a 16TBS in mid October fully expecting a dual axle trailer, and then while trolling the Livin Lite Web site, came across an "updated" spec sheet for the 16TBS that showed a single 4400lb axle with electric brake.  Called the dealer, who had no idea about the change.  He called the factory, and a week later I got a call advising that the switch had been made to single axle and that the trailer could not be built with a dual axle.  After some thinking and figuring I have decided to purchase the trailer anyway, but I was pretty p.o.'d about the way it was handled.  Not sure what I would have done if the first time I found out about the axle switch was when I showed up to pick up the trailer.[/quote]I had to calm down a bit before commenting on this post. Living Lite made major, material changes to a camper (GVWR, structure, function, and aesthetics) and apparently didn't tell a dealer and for sure didn't tell a customer pre-order. Those are all decision factors for a major purchase. The industry already has a huge trust issue. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING? [/quote]Ya, pretty much all the things that made LL unique and differentiated in the market, they're undoing.

Sad. This is what it looks like when a company dies.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]When engineers and customers meet bean counters, bean counters win every time! We all saw it coming despite contrary assurances from Scott and LL.    
[/font]

[shortcircuit]

[font size="3" face="comic sans ms"]Not only do the bean counters cut quality, they also cut workforce personnel...
So sad...[/font]

[craigd]

Look at it this way our 14DBS's all aluminum with dual axles just went up in value, glad I got it when I did.

[farmboy]

I may have  mentioned this in a previous post, but the single axle development makes this dual axle 16 DBS unit, at Sunny Island RV in Rockford, Ill.  a very rare item.  Dual axle CL with the old style cabinets but with solid surface counter and stainless sink, and what appears to be a very nice faucet.    Best of all worlds, I think, if you want that size unit.   And no, I am not connected to Sunny Island in any way.   I did go there several summers ago, and they had a large selection of LL units available to look at.  I am curious to hear what they think about the changes that LL has implemented.

http://www.sunnyislandrv.com/rv/rockford+il/livinlite+traveltrailer/775/livin+lite+camplite+16dbs

 

[ammobob]

Nice unit but pricy. I only paid 2000 more from them for my custom 2016 21BHS. I think they know what they have in this unit with recent changes at LL.

[chuck]

I contacted my dealer on Monday, we ordered our 16 TBS back in October 2015, inquiring on delivery since they were closed over Christmas.  They asked me if I will still take delivery of the 16 TBS since Livin Lite changed from dual to single axle.

I asked why the design change and was told that the trailer is too light with a twin axle configuration to provide enough tongue weight for towing stability.  

Interesting explanation but I do not know enough to know if I am getting smoke blown at me or if this is a "true" explanation.  

I will leave it here to hear back from you who know more about this then I. 

Chuck 

[david]

[p]Well, there may be a perverse reality to this statement. My two year old 16TBS did have a light tongue weight of about 240 lbs as delivered, maybe 300 now for a 3,500+ trailer weight. But to fix this, all they have to do is move the axle mounts back a few inches.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Although that may cause the wheels to no longer center in the wheel wells which leads to body modifications which I suspect they found uneconomical.[/p][p]
[/p][p]But if they did it right in the first place...

David[/p]

[leslie]

I don't believe it. My husband says it is all too easy to get tongue weight and very difficult to lighten it up. Two 20-lb propane containers on the front, at least one, if not two, deep cycle batteries, and then all the stuff you put in the basement in the front really adds up.

[charliem]

I contacted my dealer on Monday, we ordered our 16 TBS back in October 2015, inquiring on delivery since they were closed over Christmas.  They asked me if I will still take delivery of the 16 TBS since Livin Lite changed from dual to single axle.

I asked why the design change and was told that the trailer is too light with a twin axle configuration to provide enough tongue weight for towing stability.  

Interesting explanation but I do not know enough to know if I am getting smoke blown at me or if this is a "true" explanation.  

I will leave it here to hear back from you who know more about this then I. 

Chuck 

[font size="3"]First thing I'd ask is what axle does it have and require verification. If LL really did go to the 4400# axle it's marginal. If they stayed with the 3500# axle it's grossly underrated. Without real knowledge I'm guessing the empty weight with the single axle might be around 2900#. When you add AC, fresh and waste water including the 6 gal WH, propane and bottles, two batteries, and "stuff" you're getting close. David and Leslie are right in that you can always add tongue weight. That second axle was so comforting. [/font]

[christianm]

[quote source="/post/17562/thread" timestamp="1452193187" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/17556/thread" timestamp="1452185719" author="@chuck"]I contacted my dealer on Monday, we ordered our 16 TBS back in October 2015, inquiring on delivery since they were closed over Christmas.  They asked me if I will still take delivery of the 16 TBS since Livin Lite changed from dual to single axle.

I asked why the design change and was told that the trailer is too light with a twin axle configuration to provide enough tongue weight for towing stability.  

Interesting explanation but I do not know enough to know if I am getting smoke blown at me or if this is a "true" explanation.  

I will leave it here to hear back from you who know more about this then I. 

Chuck [/quote][font size="3"]First thing I'd ask is what axle does it have and require verification. If LL really did go to the 4400# axle it's marginal. If they stayed with the 3500# axle it's grossly underrated. Without real knowledge I'm guessing the empty weight with the single axle might be around 2900#. When you add AC, fresh and waste water including the 6 gal WH, propane and bottles, two batteries, and "stuff" you're getting close. David and Leslie are right in that you can always add tongue weight. That second axle was so comforting.
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[/quote]

Just checked with our guys on the factory end.... Livin Lite went with the 4400# axle (an upgrade from the 3500#). Can't really offer too much more commentary on the "why", but hope having the official answer is helpful :-)

[pinstriper]

[quote source="/post/17580/thread" timestamp="1452268882" author="@christianm"][quote source="/post/17562/thread" timestamp="1452193187" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]First thing I'd ask is what axle does it have and require verification. If LL really did go to the 4400# axle it's marginal. If they stayed with the 3500# axle it's grossly underrated. Without real knowledge I'm guessing the empty weight with the single axle might be around 2900#. When you add AC, fresh and waste water including the 6 gal WH, propane and bottles, two batteries, and "stuff" you're getting close. David and Leslie are right in that you can always add tongue weight. That second axle was so comforting.
[/font]
[/quote]Just checked with our guys on the factory end.... Livin Lite went with the 4400# axle (an upgrade from the 3500#). Can't really offer too much more commentary on the "why", but hope having the official answer is helpful :-)
[/quote]Christian, going from a pair of 35's to a single 44 is not an upgrade.