Removing and Rewiring Breakaway Battery

[daplumbr]

[quote source="/post/20631/thread" timestamp="1460944134" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/20628/thread" timestamp="1460942576" author="@sandroad"][span][a title="@sandroad" href="/user/281"][span]Merlin[/span][/a][/span] said:[font size="3"]
[/font]In the photo, do you know which junction box terminal the other black wire out of the breakaway switch is attached to? The battery + wire is one of the wires from the switch and as you describe is now (post mod) attached to the red wires in the junction box. Since this mod didn't work for me, I'm trying to figure out where the other black wire out of the breakaway switch goes. It should go to the blue brake wires in the box, but there are only 2 wires attached to that terminal in the junction box, brake controller in/out. [/quote][font size="3"]Not sure where the other wire from the break away switch is or goes. It should eventually tie to the brake magnet lead, which if I remember, was blue. I'm thinking there is another junction somewhere since there are four separate brake wires, one from each wheel, underneath. They must tie together somewhere and result in one wire going to the junction box. Tonight my guess is the four wheel wires come together with the remaining switch wire and become one of the blue wires in the junction box. [/font][font size="3"]If I remember tomorrow I'll see if I can locate the other switch wire. [/font][font size="3"]The black wire tied to the second leftmost terminal (with the red lead also) should exit the box on the right and go back tho the break away switch. There should only be one wire left in the old BB box, the negative wire, and that can be discarded. [/font]
[/quote]So here's the story. As Charlie surmised, the other wire from the breakaway switch goes to the blue terminal in the junction box, via a splice into the blue wire that comes from the TV trailer brake controller. So, if the trailer breaks away, the breakaway switch feeds 12VDC into the blue wire to activate the trailer brakes. The reason the original modification (connecting the power wire to the breakaway switch directly to the house battery wire in the junction box) didn't work for me is because the breakaway switch on my trailer was broken and didn't make the connection. 

I even figured how it got damaged. When we left the dealer with our brand new trailer in 2014, the first bump in the road popped the trailer tongue off the hitch because the dealer technician who connected up the trailer didn't get the ball seated fully. When the tongue jack hit the pavement, the breakaway wire got caught under it and jerked the breakaway switch sideways which broke it internally. The dealer gave me a new breakaway wire, but putting that on is all they did. Bad on me that I never checked the operation of the breakaway system and didn't know the switch was broken inside until now. I'm installing a new Fastway breakaway switch today. One wire to the battery + terminal and one wire to the blue wire terminal in the junction box and I'll be good to go (or stop as the case may be). 

[bobbie56]

I got to spend some time with my 21rbs this weekend and found the most interesting thing.

First, my Breakaway battery was dead, and won't charge, this is especially upsetting as I just bought a new one and installed it fully charged a month ago. Something is not right.

I put a tester on the leads to the this battery, first in volts to see if there was any voltage (lessons learned from so many blown fuses when hooking the ohm meter up to a live circuit), much to my surprise I found 13.5 volts (the trailer was plugged in at the time). Opening the junction box I found the break away battery hooked in parallel with the house battery (??).

Now I know what happened. Since I disconnect the house battery when in storage, the phantom current (lp detector, radio, and all that other stuff) killed the battery as it was drawing from it (remember, in parallel). Since using the house battery is the desired operation, I have removed the breakaway battery, and left things as is (tested and the breaks do come on when the switch is activated).

I think that Livinlite needs to explain things in their manual better.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Yep. Welcome to the club of owners who have removed  the break away battery. Interesting that you found them wired in parallel. Most CLs come with the break away battery just sitting there and requiring separate charging every six months. Go figure.
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[cmac]

[quote source="/post/16846/thread" timestamp="1448824735" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]I just made this mod today to remove the small breakeaway battery and rewire the brake to the main battery. As supplied the breakaway system uses a small motorcycle battery that is NOT recharged by the main converter or the TV. Thus it must be checked and recharged manually to main its function. CL is the only manufacturer I know of that does this. All other trailers rely on the main trailer battery. This was originally discussed in
[/font]
[font size="3"][a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/1069/breakaway-brakes-system-require-maintenance"]http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/1069/breakaway-brakes-system-require-maintenance[/a]
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[/font][/quote]Many thanks to charliem and others on this thread.  Just made the mod today and will feel much safer for me and others behind us on our next trip.  Wonder how many Livinlite'rs are driving around with dead breakaway batteries....

[popup2012]

Can someone take a picture of  what this battery looks like?

[charliem]

[font size="3"]On the tongue the battery is housed in this enclosure:

[attachment id="1449" thumbnail="1"]

When removed the battery looks like this:

[attachment id="1450" thumbnail="1"]
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[popup2012]

Thanks, Charliem  for the pictures.  I have a 2016 TBS but do not have this battery.  I have  wires coming and going from the breakaway switch to the junction box  under the battery box.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Good. I had thought it would be just a matter of time before LL (Thor) deleted the extra battery and wired into the main battery like all other companies do. We never could get an answer on why LL used that extra bettery. You're good to go.
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[ammobob]

OK need a little help or advice. Pulled the breakaway pin out on the electric brakes this weekend (it does not have a separate battery) and when I picked up the pin in found a large rubber O ring about 6" in diameter and about an 1/8" thick. Does not look like a seal for the connection box since it's bigger than the box. Any idea what it is?

[daplumbr]

That's probably the seal for the flux capacitor. 

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/22105/thread" author="@ammobob" timestamp="1465771942"]OK need a little help or advice. Pulled the breakaway pin out on the electric brakes this weekend (it does not have a separate battery) and when I picked up the pin in found a large rubber O ring about 6" in diameter and about an 1/8" thick. Does not look like a seal for the connection box since it's bigger than the box. Any idea what it is?[/quote][font size="3"]Did you have the connection box open? I don't recall if that box had an O ring seal and I can't get to it right now. Seems like ~6' diameter (18.9" circumference) might be about right. If not, maybe it's the compact spare tire    .[/font]

[ammobob]

OK need a little help or advice. Pulled the breakaway pin out on the electric brakes this weekend (it does not have a separate battery) and when I picked up the pin in found a large rubber O ring about 6" in diameter and about an 1/8" thick. Does not look like a seal for the connection box since it's bigger than the box. Any idea what it is?

[font size="3"]Did you have the connection box open? I don't recall if that box had an O ring seal and I can't get to it right now. Seems like ~6' diameter (18.9" circumference) might be about right. If not, maybe it's the compact spare tire     .[/font]

Good point though I did check it around the box and it was a lot bigger. I did not open the box but will tonight just to check and eliminate that possibility.

[peislander]

[font size="3"]We never could get an answer on why LL used that extra battery. 
[/font]

The value of a separate breakaway battery is that it can provide you a breakaway system that works should your house battery be dead or not installed. The reality is dead batteries do happen and sorry to say but I think most trailer owners wouldn't let a dead battery stop them from towing -- even though by doing so they are disregarding safe practice if the breakaway system is wired to that dead battery.


I'm happy having the little breakaway battery, especially after replacing it with >> [a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/1166/tekonsha-breakaway-system-integrated-charger"]Tekonsha Breakaway System w/ Integrated Multi-Stage Charger[/a] <<. It works well.

[charliem]

[quote timestamp="1465829719" source="/post/22120/thread" author="@peislander"]

[font size="3"]We never could get an answer on why LL used that extra battery. 
[/font]

The value of a separate breakaway battery is that it can provide you a breakaway system that works should your house battery be dead or not installed. The reality is dead batteries do happen and sorry to say but I think most trailer owners wouldn't let a dead battery stop them from towing -- even though by doing so they are disregarding safe practice if the breakaway system is wired to that dead battery.


I'm happy having the little breakaway battery, especially after replacing it with >> [a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/1166/tekonsha-breakaway-system-integrated-charger"]Tekonsha Breakaway System w/ Integrated Multi-Stage Charger[/a] <<. It works well.[/quote][font size="3"]I agree that was probably the original design goal for trailers that didn't have a battery to start with. IIRC Scott Tuttle started with light weight utility or toy hauler trailers and expanded to the camper market. Probably just a hold over. But given the little box with the uncharged battery and the tiny warning label I ask:

[ol type="decimal"][li]How many folks will find and remember to charge the battery? Very few.
[/li][li]How long will the TV take to recharge a dead battery enough to stop the runaway TT, at least equal to the uncharged forgotten 4AH battery? Not very long[/li][li]How many dealers will mention the BB on walk through? Zero[/li][li]How often is it mentioned in the owners manual? Zero.
[/li][li]Other than sharp eyed techie readers of this forum, how many folks will add the Tek charger like you did? Zero.[/li][li]How many new members of this forum will even think of or search for your solution? Very few.[/li][/ol][p]
[/p][p]On balance I still think removing it and wiring to the house battery is the best solution, but I applaud your solution and remain ready to accept incoming.  8-)
[/p]





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[whoofit]

Wow, and all I was thinking about were two things:

The amount of time the SLA battery could hold the trailer with dual axles drawing 14A.
The ability of the larger automotive battery to source sufficient current even near 60% SOC.

My trailer came wired to the house battery. I think PEI's setup is cool though.


I hired a pro to tow one of my trailers years ago. He didn't give a dang about no stinking safety brake system. He was the cheapest guy around for a reason...