Removing and Rewiring Breakaway Battery

[charliem]

[font size="3"]I just made this mod today to remove the small breakeaway battery and rewire the brake to the main battery. As supplied the breakaway system uses a small motorcycle battery that is NOT recharged by the main converter or the TV. Thus it must be checked and recharged manually to main its function. CL is the only manufacturer I know of that does this. All other trailers rely on the main trailer battery. This was originally discussed in
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[font size="3"][a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/1069/breakaway-brakes-system-require-maintenance"]http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/1069/breakaway-brakes-system-require-maintenance[/a]

To recap [/font][font size="3"]my previous post, there is a very simple way of implementing this mod. All the wires required are in the small rectangular junction box next to the breakaway battery.

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The black wire from the breakaway switch to the positive of the breakaway battery (BB) runs through this box and exits on the top left. It then goes directly to the BB positive. The second terminal from the left, with the heavy red wire on the bottom, is the house battery positive. That red wire goes directly to the positive of the house battery. So just disconnect the BB positive, pull a little slack into the junction box, cut and install a crimp lug, and connect to the second leftmost terminal. Remove BB and place on your desk as paperweight. Now your breakaway system will always be ready and you save 3-1/2 pounds of tongue weight  

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[pinstriper]

I would really like Christian to follow up on this. My dealer swore the breakaway battery was recharged. I'm not sure I believe them - it would be perfectly sensible for them to expect that this is so, and just say it, without actually knowing.

It seems to me you could wire it in parallel with the main battery, and it would recharge, and also add just a tiny bit of extra capacity. But the whole point of this battery is to be available even if the main is fully discharged - nothing should draw off this battery.

There's gotta be a conceptually simple way to accomplish this to be wired correctly. Maybe doing this to our rigs could be a fun activity at the PWN rally ?

Personally, I haven't checked it because:

1) It is mounted below the tongue frame which is...
2) Pretty far for an old fat man to bend down, and...
3) That would mean getting on my back and shimmying on the blacktop so I could get to it, which - old, fat, lazy ....
4) Is only made worse by the fact that they zip-tied the compartment shut, so I'd need to turn the garage upside down looking for a wire cutters and...
5) Also find a new, never-before-zipped zip-tie to secure the battery cover again after checking, recharging, looking at it while scratching my head.

Meh, I'm just gonna assume its fine and also that I'll never actually get disconnected in transit.

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/16863/thread" timestamp="1448847951" author="@pinstriper"]I would really like Christian to follow up on this. My dealer swore the breakaway battery was recharged. I'm not sure I believe them - it would be perfectly sensible for them to expect that this is so, and just say it, without actually knowing.

It seems to me you could wire it in parallel with the main battery, and it would recharge, and also add just a tiny bit of extra capacity. But the whole point of this battery is to be available even if the main is fully discharged - nothing should draw off this battery.

There's gotta be a conceptually simple way to accomplish this to be wired correctly. Maybe doing this to our rigs could be a fun activity at the PWN rally ?

Personally, I haven't checked it because:

1) It is mounted below the tongue frame which is...
2) Pretty far for an old fat man to bend down, and...
3) That would mean getting on my back and shimmying on the blacktop so I could get to it, which - old, fat, lazy ....
4) Is only made worse by the fact that they zip-tied the compartment shut, so I'd need to turn the garage upside down looking for a wire cutters and...
5) Also find a new, never-before-zipped zip-tie to secure the battery cover again after checking, recharging, looking at it while scratching my head.

Meh, I'm just gonna assume its fine and also that I'll never actually get disconnected in transit.
[/quote][font size="3"]Your dealer is wrong as usual. The breakaway battery (BB) is not charged on Camplites. It requires an external charger and there is even a label stating the battery must be checked before each trip.  To facilitate this they sealed the battery box with a zip tie. Go figure. I replaced the zip tie with a small carabiner before I made this mod.

There are ways to charge the BB, but they are complex and expensive. It's fairly easy to have a relay sense shore power and then connect the BB and the trailer battery in parallel. That would charge the BB from the on board converter when plugged in and disconnect when not plugged in. Fine where shore power is available.

Charging the BB from the TT is more complicated and charging from the TV has its own set of problems. It's difficult to charge one 12V battery from another 12V battery. Tekonsha makes a DC to DC charger for this purpose, but it costs $26+ and would require mounting. This would work if plugin shore power was unavailable for long periods of time.

All in all the benefit of the separate BB seems limited for the added trouble and risk of not having the breakaway safety function when you need it.  

In the pre ChristianM era a I asked LL for their reasoning on this configuration, but never got an answer. It would be interesting to hear from them and/or find out from recent buyers if LL is still supplying the separate BB.

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[david]

I totally agree with Charlie's comments. The only possible use for a separate battery, totally isolated from the trailer's main battery is if you become disconnected while towing and the main battery is flat. In my case that isn't going to happen and in the great, great majority of users it isn't going to happen either. In addition the odds of my little BB going flat are much greater than the main battery because it is out of sight out of mind.

Do what Charlie did. Wire the breakaway switch to the main battery like almost everyone else does and get rid of the BB.

David

[kycamper]

Isn't there a ground wire from the BB that has to be connected somewhere?? I want to get rid of the BB on my trailer, also. Doesn't make any sense. I had extended the wires to be outside the box, so that I could attach a battery tender to them easily, but I had also asked D&H about it and they encouraged me to eliminate the extra battery. Thanks.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]There is a ground wire on the BB, but it won't be used after you do the mod. The mod connects the brakeaway circuit to the positive of the main battery. The main battery is already grounded to the frame and so are the brake magnets. After I performed the simple mod I verified brake operation by pulling the disconnect cable switch. I measured about 14 Amps coming from the main battery with shore power disconnected.
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[kycamper]

Too easy. Thanks!!

[daplumbr]

Great mod. In addition to not having to check and worry about the breakaway battery, the main battery can supply enough amps to work the brakes; something I've wondered if the tiny little battery installed by LL can do. As added "insult to injury", the sticker on my breakaway system reads that a minimum of a 12V 12AH battery must be used. LL (or the dealer) installed a 12V 5AH battery. This mod will be done on my Camplite before it gets towed again. 

Note to Pinstriper.....if you've not checked your breakaway battery, it is dead. Mine was after only 5 months, starting from a full charge. They self-discharge. 

[david]

They do seem to self discharge quickly, but the AGM batteries used in BBs should not. Our trailer was made in January, purchased in March, and by July the BB was dead. AGMs are only supposed to discharge a few percent each month. Go figure.

David

[charliem]

[font size="3"]A use for the unused brake battery box: A wireless remote reading thermometer.  Place the sensor for your outside wireless thermometer in it and close with a twist of wire. Out of the sun and out of the rain. No need to pack it before leaving; no leaving it behind at the campsite. 


Now. What to do with the 4AH battery? 



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[spot1]

The dealer got rid of my 4AH battery & installed a deep cell marine battery for the main CampLite battery, powers emergency trailer brake application, too.

Use my CampLite main battery to power my trolling motor on a small fishing boat, too. For those that have the original 4AH battery, it could power a trolling motor if adequate, or it can be used as a core trade-in battery for a adequate battery.

Another thought, my last motorcycle project came without battery, a 4AH battery could be used on your next motorcycle project, or traded in on an adequate battery. Lawnmower projects count, too.

Thinking out loud, again!!!!!!!!!!    

[mitch]

I thinking I could use it to create a trap that will deter (read that as, really really deter in a most permanent kind of way) the chipmunks that seem to enjoy hiding from dog by jumping on top of the axle thereby causing my dog to go ballistic.

[daplumbr]

Can't help with the chipmunk trap, but I did just complete the breakaway battery re-wire. I'll use the battery box for my wireless remote temperature sensor. 

For the wiring, Charlie's description and procedure are accurate. I was confused at first by the fact LL (or the dealer; I'm not sure who installs the breakaway system) had hooked up the battery backward. Once I figured that out, following Charlie's notes worked great. 

[daplumbr]

[quote timestamp="1448824735" source="/post/16846/thread" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]I just made this mod today to remove the small breakeaway battery and rewire the brake to the main battery. As supplied the breakaway system uses a small motorcycle battery that is NOT recharged by the main converter or the TV. Thus it must be checked and recharged manually to main its function. CL is the only manufacturer I know of that does this. All other trailers rely on the main trailer battery. This was originally discussed in
[/font]
[font size="3"][a href="http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/1069/breakaway-brakes-system-require-maintenance"]http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/1069/breakaway-brakes-system-require-maintenance[/a]

To recap [/font][font size="3"]my previous post, there is a very simple way of implementing this mod. All the wires required are in the small rectangular junction box next to the breakaway battery.

[/font]
[font size="3"][/font][font size="3"]

The black wire from the breakaway switch to the positive of the breakaway battery (BB) runs through this box and exits on the top left. It then goes directly to the BB positive. The second terminal from the left, with the heavy red wire on the bottom, is the house battery positive. That red wire goes directly to the positive of the house battery. So just disconnect the BB positive, pull a little slack into the junction box, cut and install a crimp lug, and connect to the second leftmost terminal. Remove BB and place on your desk as paperweight. Now your breakaway system will always be ready and you save 3-1/2 pounds of tongue weight    

[/font][/quote]In the photo, do you know which junction box terminal the other black wire out of the breakaway switch is attached to? The battery + wire is one of the wires from the switch and as you describe is now (post mod) attached to the red wires in the junction box. Since this mod didn't work for me, I'm trying to figure out where the other black wire out of the breakaway switch goes. It should go to the blue brake wires in the box, but there are only 2 wires attached to that terminal in the junction box, brake controller in/out. 

[charliem]

[quote timestamp="1460942576" author="@sandroad" source="/post/20628/thread"][span][a href="/user/281" title="@sandroad"][span]Merlin[/span][/a][/span] said:[font size="3"]
[/font]In the photo, do you know which junction box terminal the other black wire out of the breakaway switch is attached to? The battery + wire is one of the wires from the switch and as you describe is now (post mod) attached to the red wires in the junction box. Since this mod didn't work for me, I'm trying to figure out where the other black wire out of the breakaway switch goes. It should go to the blue brake wires in the box, but there are only 2 wires attached to that terminal in the junction box, brake controller in/out. [/quote][font size="3"]Not sure where the other wire from the break away switch is or goes. It should eventually tie to the brake magnet lead, which if I remember, was blue. I'm thinking there is another junction somewhere since there are four separate brake wires, one from each wheel, underneath. They must tie together somewhere and result in one wire going to the junction box. Tonight my guess is the four wheel wires come together with the remaining switch wire and become one of the blue wires in the junction box. [/font][font size="3"]If I remember tomorrow I'll see if I can locate the other switch wire. [/font][font size="3"]The black wire tied to the second leftmost terminal (with the red lead also) should exit the box on the right and go back tho the break away switch. There should only be one wire left in the old BB box, the negative wire, and that can be discarded. [/font]