4th of July...what's the big deal?

[dh50]

[quote source="/post/12740/thread" timestamp="1435471566" author="@kath"][quote source="/post/12734/thread" timestamp="1435438721" author="@brenda"][font size="3"]I am deeply saddened about the direction our beloved country is going and disagree with the recent rulings of the Supreme Court.
[/font][/quote]@brenda, I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. Do you believe that my family should not have the same protections under the law that your family enjoys?

[/quote]"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men (women) are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..."  The Declaration of Independence, paragraph 2a.

Human dignity cannot be given by a 'supreme court' comprised of mere men, but only by a Supreme God in whose image we are all made and by whom we are all deeply loved.  

Truth marches on...and we join with others this 4th of July who will pause to remember the cost of freedom paid for by the blood of others.  Freedom has never been free.  Celebrate and give thanks to God Almighty while we are yet free!


 HAPPY 239th BIRTHDAY, USA!  May God's grace continue to shine on thee! 

[jeeps]

[font size="3"]I think it's pretty great that, in spite of our different opinions, we can come together over our mutual love for camping.  

And I've been eating hotdogs already(!) 'CAUSE I found some at the store that only have 45 calories each and work in my diet ...... Oops, off topic again.        [/font]

[whoofit]

[font size="3"]I think it's pretty great that, in spite of our different opinions, we can come together over our mutual love for camping.  

And I've been eating hotdogs already(!) 'CAUSE I found some at the store that only have 45 calories each and work in my diet ...... Oops, off topic again.        [/font]

Would they be found at ALDI perhaps? My wife typically buys those there...those are what I refer to as hotdogs. The deadly ones I refer to as HOTDOGS!!.... (rofl)

[whoofit]

 Here's what Ole George had to say about things like the hot button topic on this thread.

"We have abundant reason to rejoice that in this Land the light of truth and reason has triumphed over the power of bigotry and superstition... In this enlightened Age and in this Land of equal liberty it is our boast, that a man's religious tenets will not forfeit the protection of the Laws, nor deprive him of the right of attaining and holding the highest Offices that are known in the United States." ~Founding Father George Washington, to the New Church in Baltimore. January 27, 1793

And from what I understand you do NOT want to frick with Ole George... 8-)

[jeeps]

[quote timestamp="1435510646" source="/post/12750/thread" author="@whoofit"][quote source="/post/12748/thread" timestamp="1435509835" author="@brenda"][font size="3"]I think it's pretty great that, in spite of our different opinions, we can come together over our mutual love for camping.  

And I've been eating hotdogs already(!) 'CAUSE I found some at the store that only have 45 calories each and work in my diet ...... Oops, off topic again.        [/font][/quote]Would they be found at ALDI perhaps? My wife typically buys those there...those are what I refer to as hotdogs. The deadly ones I refer to as HOTDOGS!!.... (rofl)
[/quote]Not familiar with ALDI.  I found them at my local grocery store (Fred Meyers).  The REAL deadly ones are at Costco.  Oh man, smothered in sauerkraut, relish, mustard .....

[whoofit]

[p]Yup, so I figured why leave anyone out here?

About a decade ago I realized something. With most supreme court rulings being a near 50/50 split I feel it amounts to this pretty much. I am a registered Independent and vote my conscience.
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[jeeps]

[quote source="/post/12754/thread" timestamp="1435512920" author="@whoofit"][p]Yup, so I figured why leave anyone out here?

About a decade ago I realized something. With most supreme court rulings being a near 50/50 split I feel it amounts to this pretty much. I am a registered Independent and vote my conscience.
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[whoofit]

[quote timestamp="1435516102" source="/post/12755/thread" author="@brenda"]

[quote timestamp="1435512920" author="@whoofit" source="/post/12754/thread"][/quote][font size="3"]
Oh, and I guess that makes me not "stuck in the middle with you".   [/font][/quote]You got that right! I am the one that's stuck here... 8-)

[kath]

Hi Kath,  I wish to respectfully answer your question about your family having the same protections under the law, as others.  

I would have preferred those protections be achieved legally through a civil union, including the same tax benefits, inheritance, hospital visiting privileges, etc.  I don't wish to deny anyone of their constitutional rights or protections.  And I understand the desire to spend your life with the one you love.  Anyone with a heart sympathizes with that.  

But at the same time, I feel very strongly that societies must be set up to give the highest possible protections for the most innocent and voiceless .... children.  Children need both their father and their mother, and neither should ever be considered optional or replaceable.  I believe God/nature intended it this way, otherwise conception would have been designed differently.  I fear that the legalization of gay marriage will lead to more gay parenting where, without exception, the children must sacrifice one parent, in exchange for another.  Children should never be expected to pay such a price to suit the needs of an adult.  I feel the same about divorce.  It should be avoided if at all possible.

Please let me stress .... I am not saying that LGBTs are any less loving and devoted to their children.  I believe they can be just as wonderful parents as anyone.  But no one, regardless of whom, can completely replace a child's own biological parents.  Human beings have an innate attachment to their biological roots.  Some may bury it deeply in their soul, but it's there nonetheless and is one of the things that separates us from other life forms.  Please also let me stress that I whole-heartedly endorse adoption.  In situations where both parents cannot marry and raise their child together, then adoption into a stable, married two-parent home with a mom and a dad, is a blessing from heaven.  But never should a child's birth be planned, before conception, to include adoption.  That would be putting the desires of the adult ahead of the needs of the child.  I also feel that any home with a loving parent is better than no home, for those children who have little to no chance of adoption.

I do not understand how our society values the presence and input of both sexes in places like employment, government, juries, and even in the Supreme Court itself.  This acknowledges readily, that there are indeed differences between men and women, otherwise it wouldn't matter if there was a balance of both in any situation.  Yet, the presence and input of both sexes in raising a child has been deemed unimportant.  This is why the Supreme Court ruling saddens me.  I raised three sons and a daughter and know I could not have filled the inevitable void, had they not had their dad too.  There were countless times they needed just me, and countless times they needed only him.  And without question, they needed both their parents together.  They still do.

Finally, as I said in my post, respect and civility are so very important.  I can love someone and do all I can to support their family, while disagreeing with their choices or lifestyle.  I do not mean to offend or hurt, just to speak the truth as I see it.  The needs of children must come first.     Our opinions differ, but hopefully, again as I said, if we ever meet, we can still be friends.  

Brenda,

Since you put your oiginal posting here, where it is available for all to see,as I did with my question to you, I feel it is only fair that your reply be posted publicly as well.  It is all too convenient to make sweeping statments in public and soften them in private. I have had a stomach full of this in my life.

Your answer tells me that, with all respect, you do not believe that my family is equal to yours. You wish us to have legal protections, but only if we call it something less than what you have. In actuality, we are all "civilly united."  Perhaps all marriage licenses should be called that, and those who wish to have a religious designation can seek that somewhere else.

The trouble with making general statements about what you believe, without meaning to offend or hurt, is that you are actually talking about REAL PEOPLE LIKE ME. I am not a concept, or a political ideology. I do not live a "lifestyle" anymore than you live a "lifestyle". This is my actual life, Brenda. And everytime you say, however "respectfully" that my family is not as good as yours because we don't have a father in the house and that "gay parenting", whatever that is, will never be as good as the parenting in your house, you hurt me. And you hurt my child.

Where your "belief" does not hold water is about the children. I would like to know where the straight mothers and fathers were when my son was lying in an orphanage unwanted by all the mother and father units out there?  Oh, but wait!  You allow that "any home is better than no home."  So, I guess we're better than dirt, at least.

What I am trying to tell you is that we are not talking about having different "opinions" here. This is my life you are talking about. This is our son's life you are talking about. So, please, do not pretend we are merely having a difference of opinion.

Friends are people who are equals. How could I possibly feel welcome around your campfire knowing that you feel our family is second rate?  What would  we tell our son after we roasted marshmallows over your campfire?  

You are, as a free citizen of this country, of course entitled to any thought you would like to have in your head. But the minute you put these things out there for other people to see or hear, it hurts me. And it hurts our son. Just know that.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Admin notified.
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[admin]

I've been trying to catch up on this thread from a camp sight just outside of Easton PA so I'm a bit slow on this. Everyone has a right to their opinions and I appreciate a lively debate as much as the next person. However this is getting well outside the scope for this board and section. A key descriptor of this section was as a judgement free zone I don't see that core value being upheld here. Keep in mind there is a fine line between a heated debate and personal attacks.

I am locking this thread at this time.