Gas Vs Diesel - any mileage info anyone can share?

[whoofit]

[quote source="/post/9078/thread" author="@tlbones" timestamp="1428632169"][quote timestamp="1428580372" author="@whoofit" source="/post/9037/thread"]I have nothing to offer from first hand experience, like you asked for, except to say be aware of availability issues with diesel. It is more difficult to find at all hours and in every locale.


[/quote]I live in southeast PA.   I don't have any numbers or anything, but I've noticed a definite trend in the past year or so of more and more gas stations adding 1 or 2 diesel pumps.   The main chain I see doing this is Wawa who must have an initiative to do this because they have systematically added diesel to every station I pass in my daily travels.    [/quote][p]Diesel is readily available around here. You need to drive by several gas stations and some miles to get it but it's around if you already know where to get it. It would be more viable if every station had diesel. I would consider it more heavily if that were the case. Who knows where it could be had in an area unknown.[/p][p]
[/p][p]As an aside, we used to be able to run down the station and purchase K1 at the pump. They made that illegal for who knows why?
[/p]

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote timestamp="1428663987" author="@whoofit" source="/post/9097/thread"]

The emission control systems on gas engines are complex too, but manufacturers perfected (so to speak) those and it's hard to argue against the significantly cleaner air we all breathe because of the Clean Air Act. I'm really impressed with progress on clean diesel and remain optimistic that manufacturers will (eventually) get that right too. In the meantime, I for one am very happy to live in a country with a Clean Air Act. 

[p]I am too. Impressed both with how diesel emissions have improved and by how much cleaner the air is in general. I don't agree with [strong]all[/strong] of the Clean Air Act, and [strong]all[/strong] of what is leveraged in the name of it, but in general it is a good thing for sure.[/p][p]
[/p][p]My only wish is that the manufacturers would somehow be more responsible for perfecting these methods by design versus using the masses as Guinea Pigs. I remember the nightmare of being a mechanic in the early 80's. Plagued with problems that are largely gone today.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Living smack dab in the middle of the "tailpipe of the nation" I appreciate clean air.
[/p][/quote]I didn't mean to imply that the EPA shouldn't have added these restrictions. I cringe just as much as the next guy when someone floors it in their old diesel truck and a black cloud explodes out of the tailpipe. What I was trying to say is that they basically had to remove all of the competitive advantages of the diesel to make it clean.

[dh50]

Brenda -

Do-it-yourself filling of DEF does not void the factory warranty. Not sure about Cherokee, but the Ram User guide includes on page 152 a section regarding adding DEF. When your DEF gauge reads half-way or below, simply add a container of any commercially available DEF. I buy "Blue-DEF" from Wal-Mart in a 2- gallon container. I have 15K miles on my truck so I have added DEF twice already. Since our vehicles have an 8-gal DEF tank I say wait until the half way mark just to avoid the potential for overfilling. A full tank is supposed to last around 8K miles, and my experience tracks with that rule of thumb.

Back to the emissions control equipment topic, I agree that the EPA has gone overboard with regulations. I have worked in the power generation industry for 40 years. I have been to China, India and Mexico and have seen what no controls of any kind looks like  - not pretty or healthy. On the other hand, I have insider experience with the EPA's war on coal and what their agenda is. Bottom line, we have been placed on this earth to be good stewards of its resources, and when that responsibility is corrupted by either the greed for profits or the hunger for governing power, the results are harmful in one way or another.

[shovelhead]

Since I owned my RAM1500 (gas) before I bought the CL I of course side with gas power.  My brother who owns a standard trailer about 28' uses a RAM diesel.  He loves the diesel until he pulls in for fuel.  It definitely has the torque and beefed up brake/suspension is nice.  But with  the lighter CL I feel I just dont need it.

[david]

Certainly diesels with current emission modifications are more of a PITA and less reliable than before when there were no regulations. But I do think that the industry will improve reliability and maybe even be able to do away with external chemical injection over time.

Look at the gasoline engine. During the late 60s and early 70s cars were almost undriveable. Carburetors were leaned to the point that the car stumbled and backfired when accelerating. But the industry came up with catalytic converters and electronic fuel injection which made them fun to drive but they met increasingly stringent emissions regs.

I expect the same thing to happen with diesels. We are back in the early 70s with diesels and there is a long way to go.

They have done wonders so far for smoke and soot. Some passenger diesels don't use a particulate filter and I'll bet DEF injection will be gone before long.

David

[jeeps]

[quote source="/post/9112/thread" timestamp="1428680492" author="@gwbushhog"]Brenda -

Do-it-yourself filling of DEF does not void the factory warranty. Not sure about Cherokee, but the Ram User guide includes on page 152 a section regarding adding DEF. When your DEF gauge reads half-way or below, simply add a container of any commercially available DEF. I buy "Blue-DEF" from Wal-Mart in a 2- gallon container. I have 15K miles on my truck so I have added DEF twice already. Since our vehicles have an 8-gal DEF tank I say wait until the half way mark just to avoid the potential for overfilling. A full tank is supposed to last around 8K miles, and my experience tracks with that rule of thumb.

Back to the emissions control equipment topic, I agree that the EPA has gone overboard with regulations. I have worked in the power generation industry for 40 years. I have been to China, India and Mexico and have seen what no controls of any kind looks like  - not pretty or healthy. On the other hand, I have insider experience with the EPA's war on coal and what their agenda is. Bottom line, we have been placed on this earth to be good stewards of its resources, and when that responsibility is corrupted by either the greed for profits or the hunger for governing power, the results are harmful in one way or another.
[/quote]Yes, but we've seen posts from Jeep GC owners in other forums where they did just as you said with the DEF, and then there was some problem and they were blamed for using some inferior brand fluid and the warranty was toast, costing the owners big bucks to fix their car.  So there is some risk and we're a little nervous about it.  We had to take our Jeep in three times to the dealer because of the check engine light and DEF issues right after we bought it.  They ended up (vehicle was still less than 2 months old) having to replace the catalytic converter (on warranty) and since then, the light has stayed off.  

One little side note, my husband has made his own diesel fuel .... I forget what it's called .... bio-diesel!... out of old cooking oil and used it to fuel our 2007 Chev. Silverado pickup, that we no longer own.  It worked really well.  But can't do it anymore, thanks to the new technology.  (And here again, I am way over my head in this conversation.)

But, as I said, other than that, we love driving it.

[dh50]

Wanted to update this thread with current experience. I buy fuel in Sanford, FL, where the difference between regular gas and diesel is now 10 cents!

Our Ram Ecodiesel is approaching 20K miles. Have had several issues with CELs (check engine light) which were handled under warranty. No driveability issues, and still getting 26 mpg average with AC on. Towing our 26 ft Axxess, getting 13-14 mpg. Love my diesel!

[billmoore]

For us the extra cost of the diesel just doesn't pencil out. You pay a pretty good chunk of change more for the vehicle up front and you pay more per gallon so the payback is many years/miles out.

[ammobob]

I tend to agree with Bill. The upfront costs of a Diesel engine and extended costs of fuel just did not work out for me so I went with the RAM 1500 with 5.7 HEMI. During our recent trip to pick-up our camper we had the truck loaded and averaged 20 mpg on interstate once we were towing we averaged 9-12 depending on what leg of the 2000 mile trip we were on. The 9 was for the last 400 miles into a steady headwind.

[sandyu]

 Currently in Wyoming diesel is cheaper than gas.  

[ammobob]

It is in Nevada now too. Not the normal trend but good to see.

[craigd]

Diesel was also much cheaper in California when I was there a couple months ago, but gas was about a dollar more a gallon than Florida prices.

[swbc150]

[p]I will be making a  change (soon) in a different TV and debated the Diesel Vs the Gasser.
I'm not fortunate to get the same results as Bill with his F150 5.0L motor, this could be where I live and where I tow 95% of the time. My 5.4L did the same so I know there is nothing wrong with the 5.0L. Since I have gotten this LL I do Tow heavier loads than before and my 5.0L see's 2nd gear way more than I like.[/p][p]I on a avg I get around 10.2mpg w/my F150 when towing, speeds no more than 62mph and less depending on speed limits but all of this is climbing in elevation. I start out at 5644ft and in 3.5 hours I am at 8700ft, my F150 never see's 6th gear, very little of 5th, a little of 4th and mostly 3rd and into 2nd of the steeper long climbs. I never drop below the posted speed limits other than on the Interstates.  I get the same MPG when I tow to even higher elevations up to and over 10,000ft.

After figuring everything out for the Diesel Vs the Gasser and all of the EPA Diesel stuff, additional upfront cost, maintenance difference between the two I decided to stay with the Gasser and back into a Ford Superduty.

It really comes down to what you the owner feels best with. There are Forums as well on any vehicle out there to check and see what owners are feeling and saying about there vehicles both Diesel and Gasser's.
Depending on the load you are towing, where you tow, elevations you tow and even the cost of fuel will be part of your decision. Diesel fuel shouldn't be a issue in finding it at any gas station anymore, at least everywhere I have ever traveled to, they all carried Diesel fuel as well.[/p]

[billmoore]

The difference is the altitude. I rarely get over 4000 ft. A non-turbo gas engine loses a significant amount of power at altitude. If I spent a lot of time towing at high altitude, I would have gotten the EcoBoost engine instead of the 5.0L.

[david]

billmore: I think you are much better of with the 5.0 engine, nothing beats cubic inches for torque and long engine life. Sure normally aspirated engines lose power at higher altitudes, but just open the throttle to get it back if you have the cubic inches behind it. You are using the piston to compress the air and not a turbo when you open the throttle.

swbc150: Your towing profile is made for a diesel: extended high torque requirement. A diesel should beat a gasser in this situation with a 20& or better improvement in fuel economy. I am surprised you chose a gasser.

David