GVW / VIN Sticker

[lanell]

 ok I give , I think I have looked every where....cant find anything but the tire pressure sticker . Where the heck are they hiding the weight sticker and vin number ....thanks in advance !

[charliem]

[font size="3"]The VIN is on the date of manufacture sticker or close to it, usually next to the tire pressure sticker. The tire pressure sticker will tell you the GVWR and the tires required to achieve it. You will not find an as built weight sticker. Most RV builders include the actual weight of the particular unit as it left the factory on a yellow sticker, but not LL. Maybe they don't have a scale  .
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[billmoore]

[quote source="/post/8554/thread" author="@charliem" timestamp="1427498272"][font size="3"]The VIN is on the date of manufacture sticker or close to it, usually next to the tire pressure sticker. The tire pressure sticker will tell you the GVWR and the tires required to achieve it. You will not find an as built weight sticker. Most RV builders include the actual weight of the particular unit as it left the factory on a yellow sticker, but not LL. Maybe they don't have a scale  .
[/font][/quote]You can calculate the as built weight by subtracting the maximum cargo weight shown on the tire and loading sticker from the GVWR (at least this was the case on mine). I don't remember the exact numbers, but my as built cargo capacity is several hundred pounds less than what is in the specs for the model, presumably the weight of the options...

[lanell]

 Thanks , will check those closer when it gets light .

[charliem]

[quote timestamp="1427517413" author="@billmoore" source="/post/8569/thread"]You can calculate the as built weight by subtracting the maximum cargo weight shown on the tire and loading sticker from the GVWR (at least this was the case on mine). I don't remember the exact numbers, but my as built cargo capacity is several hundred pounds less than what is in the specs for the model, presumably the weight of the options...
[/quote][font size="3"]This may yield an approximation, but the tire pressure tag with its max cargo weight looks like a generic pre-printed label. As such it may reflect an as designed number rather than as built. No indication what options are included or not. Not the same as a true scale value as it rolls out the door.
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[whoofit]

If you do weigh it you may find, like I did, that the Certificate of Origin lists the exact weight of the trailer. This flies in the face of some popular belief but it is my experience on the CL we own. The CofO on ours was exact after weighing the trailer on a Cat scale minus the propane in the tank and the battery which is as it should be. And this trailer is considered loaded with todays XL options too.

[billmoore]

[quote source="/post/8574/thread" timestamp="1427545048" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]This may yield an approximation, but the tire pressure tag with its max cargo weight looks like a generic pre-printed label. As such it may reflect an as designed number rather than as built. No indication what options are included or not. Not the same as a true scale value as it rolls out the door.
[/font][/quote]I'm pretty sure it is a NHTSA requirement that the numbers on that sticker be accurate. Couldn't find any links in a quick search to prove it, but these two seem to indicate it:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/TireSafety/TireSafety.html
http://www.titantrailer.com/media/web_brochures/Tire_Safety_Information.pdf

I know that on passenger vehicles it is required, and I'm pretty sure on trailers it is required as well. Walk around a Ford dealership and look at the stickers on the insider driver door frame on the F150s. They look like pre-printed generic labels, but no two are the same - every one has a different number for maximum cargo weight.

[billmoore]

One other thing to keep in mind though - the weights on the stickers are as it left the factory, not as it left the dealership. The battery and propane tanks are added at the dealership...

[billmoore]

I just checked the numbers on my sticker, and I have a cargo capacity of 3220 lbs, but the factory spec for my model is 3600 lbs. This means with the options, my as-built weight is 380 lbs more than the specification dry weight of 3400 lbs, so 3780 lbs.

[lanell]

[p][span]    [/span]We have a 16DB with the off road package , the tire sticker is I believe the wrong one for this trailer as it lists 13" wheel and tire sizes when we have 14" wheels and tires . The tire sticker says: max cargo is 3250 lbs. , vin sticker says gvwr (6000 LB). Again both list 13" tire /wheel size incorrectly ? The tires on this trailer say : BF Goodrich Baja Champion LT 195/75R14/99/96R   M+S Load Range D.  Guess I should pull it to work and weigh it next street over on the rock quarry scales  [/p][p]
[/p][p][span]    [/span]On a side note , I just have checked the wheel nut torque on the trailer , we drove less than 95 miles home from the dealer without stopping to check torque .If you have not yet checked them please do. We had several that took a full turn to tighten and almost all were loose a bit. The new torque wrench was money well spent.
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[whoofit]

Looks to me like you have a misprint on your sticker. That being 13" instead of 14". Otherwise the info seems to jive with my non-offroad packaged 16DB. Mine says max cargo with 13" tires is 2300. So 2700+2300=5000lb GVWR. I guess it's better than the other way around for you.

I can't imagine fitting 2300lbs of cargo in there. Maybe we'll do a travelling fish tank in there one day?

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/8584/thread" timestamp="1427566033" author="@billmoore"]I just checked the numbers on my sticker, and I have a cargo capacity of 3220 lbs, but the factory spec for my model is 3600 lbs. This means with the options, my as-built weight is 380 lbs more than the specification dry weight of 3400 lbs, so 3780 lbs.[/quote][font size="3"]Your approach is good, but I'd be leery of the data you're using. The tire pressure label is a pre-printed and is applied to all trailers of a given group (16BD, 16 TBS, 21RBS, etc.). It has no unit specific information. As such it shows the tire type and pressure used in the design to meet the GVWR spec and some estimate of allowable cargo to stay within the rated GVWR. My 21RBS has the off road option (also see Len's post above) with completely different tires than called out on the label. Actually the four supplied Goodrich LT 195/75R14 tires are themselves only rated to carry 6840# even though the two axles total 7000#. GVWR is a function of axle, tire, and trailer design. The tire label merely states that if you use certain tires at a certain inflation the GVWR would be 7000#. The cargo rating is really only a snapshot somewhere in the design phase.

The white label is closer to truth. It appears to be printed for a specific unit with the date of manufacture and the VIN #. It also restates the GVWR,  GAWR, and specified tires, but no as built weight or cargo limits. This would have been the place to put the as built weight, but LL did not. Most other trailer manufacturers add a yellow label with as built/as shipped weight. But, as you correctly point out,  an as built or as shipped weight does not include any dealer installed equipment such as battery (ies), propane tank (s), propane, power tongue jacks, water in the WH, and sometimes the AC.

Don't try to correlate the labels with the LL catalog values. LL is constantly upgrading/changing their products and the catalog is almost never up to date. Ex. My 21RBS is advertised as GVWR=5000#, but the label and axles are 7000#. Len's 16DB is advertised as GVWR=5000#, but his label is 6000#. The catalog is the last to change.

All of the above said, the only important weights are GVWR, "as towed" weight, and tongue weight. The dry weight is interesting, but not really pertinent. The "as towed" weight must not exceed the GVWR or the TV capacity. The tongue weight should be 10% to 15% of "as towed" weight and within the applicable ratings of the TV. The "as towed" and tongue weights are best determined by direct measurement. Don't rely on guesses, estimates, or published catalog data.

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[billmoore]

[quote source="/post/8592/thread" timestamp="1427576347" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Your approach is good, but I'd be leery of the data you're using. The tire pressure label is a pre-printed and is applied to all trailers of a given group (16BD, 16 TBS, 21RBS, etc.). It has no unit specific information. As such it shows the tire type and pressure used in the design to meet the GVWR spec and some estimate of allowable cargo to stay within the rated GVWR. My 21RBS has the off road option (also see Len's post above) with completely different tires than called out on the label. Actually the four supplied Goodrich LT 195/75R14 tires are themselves only rated to carry 6840# even though the two axles total 7000#. GVWR is a function of axle, tire, and trailer design. The tire label merely states that if you use certain tires at a certain inflation the GVWR would be 7000#. The cargo rating is really only a snapshot somewhere in the design phase.

The white label is closer to truth. It appears to be printed for a specific unit with the date of manufacture and the VIN #. It also restates the GVWR,  GAWR, and specified tires, but no as built weight or cargo limits. This would have been the place to put the as built weight, but LL did not. Most other trailer manufacturers add a yellow label with as built/as shipped weight. But, as you correctly point out,  an as built or as shipped weight does not include any dealer installed equipment such as battery (ies), propane tank (s), propane, power tongue jacks, water in the WH, and sometimes the AC.

Don't try to correlate the labels with the LL catalog values. LL is constantly upgrading/changing their products and the catalog is almost never up to date. Ex. My 21RBS is advertised as GVWR=5000#, but the label and axles are 7000#. Len's 16DB is advertised as GVWR=5000#, but his label is 6000#. The catalog is the last to change.

All of the above said, the only important weights are GVWR, "as towed" weight, and tongue weight. The dry weight is interesting, but not really pertinent. The "as towed" weight must not exceed the GVWR or the TV capacity. The tongue weight should be 10% to 15% of "as towed" weight and within the applicable ratings of the TV. The "as towed" and tongue weights are best determined by direct measurement. Don't rely on guesses, estimates, or published catalog data.

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In my case, I'm not particularly worried about it given that I have at least 1000 lbs more cargo capacity than I could possibly get inside my trailer (whether the actual cargo weight is the 3220 on the sticker, the 3600 in the catalog, or whatever), even with 750 lbs of motorcycles loaded in it.  And even if I did load it all the way to GVWR, I'm still 800 lbs under my TV's tow capacity, and with a TV payload of 1700#, even 1000 lbs of tongue weight isn't a problem.

My point above was that according to the NTHSA guidelines, the numbers on the sticker "should" be more accurate than the numbers in the catalog...

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/8598/thread" timestamp="1427589542" author="@billmoore"]In my case, I'm not particularly worried about it given that I have at least 1000 lbs more cargo capacity than I could possibly get inside my trailer (whether the actual cargo weight is the 3220 on the sticker, the 3600 in the catalog, or whatever), even with 750 lbs of motorcycles loaded in it.  And even if I did load it all the way to GVWR, I'm still 800 lbs under my TV's tow capacity, and with a TV payload of 1700#, even 1000 lbs of tongue weight isn't a problem.

My point above was that according to the NTHSA guidelines, the numbers on the sticker "should" be more accurate than the numbers in the catalog...
[/quote][font size="3"]In that case you're in good shape. When I bought my CL I was surprised LL didn't have the actual weight on a yellow sticker. It would have made my calcs a bit easier. Re the NTHSA guidelines: do they apply to trailers as well as trucks/cars/etc.? And are they just guidelines? BTW I see the BC7X20 is still shown as "coming soon" on the LL web site. Are they that far behind?
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[billmoore]

[quote source="/post/8600/thread" timestamp="1427590222" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/8598/thread" timestamp="1427589542" author="@billmoore"]In my case, I'm not particularly worried about it given that I have at least 1000 lbs more cargo capacity than I could possibly get inside my trailer (whether the actual cargo weight is the 3220 on the sticker, the 3600 in the catalog, or whatever), even with 750 lbs of motorcycles loaded in it.  And even if I did load it all the way to GVWR, I'm still 800 lbs under my TV's tow capacity, and with a TV payload of 1700#, even 1000 lbs of tongue weight isn't a problem.

My point above was that according to the NTHSA guidelines, the numbers on the sticker "should" be more accurate than the numbers in the catalog...
[/quote][font size="3"]In that case you're in good shape. When I bought my CL I was surprised LL didn't have the actual weight on a yellow sticker. It would have made my calcs a bit easier. Re the NTHSA guidelines: do they apply to trailers as well as trucks/cars/etc.? And are they just guidelines? BTW I see the BC7X20 is still shown as "coming soon" on the LL web site. Are they that far behind?
[/font][/quote]Yeah, their website is pretty lame, they don't do a good job of keeping it up to date. The BC7X20 has been out for over a year, and the dealers have spec sheets on them (and some dealers have those specs on their own sites), so I don't know why the website hasn't been updated.

From the one link I posted above (which actually was to proposed changes back in 2001 that appear to have been adopted but I can't find a definitive answer to), they apply to all passenger vehicles and all trailers with a GVWR of less than 10000 lbs.