Stop Me! I'm about to buy a 2015 Axxess 8526FB

[leslie]

I have also read that the tip-out bunk also has wood in the tip-out door. LL does not manufacture these doors themselves, but sources them from another manufacturer. I thought the company said that they had tried to have as much wood eliminated as possible, but that they were unable to have doors manufactured without some wood. The entry door also contains some wood, as well.

If anyone here has different information, please post. As others here have done, I willingly paid a lot more money to have an aluminum camper.

[dh50]

"Jan 4, 2015 at 5:58pm exploringcarolina said:

LivinLite is a BBB member.



Check out the 9-16-2014 complaint and resolution:



[font color="#e64a19"]www.bbb.org/northernindiana/business-reviews/recreational-vehicle-manufacturers/livin-lite-recreational-vehicles-in-wakarusa-in-90057343/complaints#breakdown
[/font][font color="#110703"] "[/font]


UPDATE:  We plan to go through with the purchase and take responsibility that our pre-purchase research was insufficient.  We did sign to buy and will choose to let our 'yay' mean 'yay' and make good on our agreement.  Too bad, however, that Livin Lite apparently chooses to mislead the public with their 'all-aluminum, no wood' claims. If the positive claims made by LL rep, the dealer and some posting on this forum are true, that is, that LL RVs are still the best thing going on in the RV world, then why not own the facts that there is wood in their products and train dealers to follow suit?  

The following was posted on "Ask the Factory" yesterday, and since we started the topic thread here, we'll post it here as well for whatever help it may be to those contemplating a LL purchase.  It is our experience only, and is shared as such.  

"This is turning out badly.  LivinLite's rep called us yesterday at dealer's request.  States that yes, there is wood in the cargo door, luan - a type of plywood.  Says to just watch it, keep up with the seal at the bottom.  Stated he was new at LL since this summer and took responsibility saying that he must do better training of the dealer's sales force.  The dealer is stating that they had no knowledge about wood in LLite's toyhaulers.  While we would like to give them the benefit of the doubt, it's hard to believe they knew nothing of this.  It could appear to some that both mfr./dealer 'might' be complicit in the all-aluminum 'cover-up' of wood in toyhauler line.  It's very disappointing, takes the joy out of the experience.  Most disappointing.



This is third day since signing paperwork paying premium (at least $10,000 over stick equivalent).  Paid premium for 'peace of mind', though we haven't yet taken delivery of unit; not driven off the dealer's lot since the dealer is still working on fixing the punch list items.  We're told that if we back-out on the purchase (not that we've chosen this route at this writing), the dealer (nameless at this writing) will treat the unit as pre-owned and as a trade-in.  Wow, this went south fast!  Have consumers any rights against misleading advertising claims?  Despite dealer pivoting quickly to play 'hardball' with us, we don't want to play that game.  Again, we place a premium on 'peace of mind'.



I did ask the rep at Livin Lite to eliminate this future scenario for other prospective toyhauler buyers by simple disclosure of the facts.  (Why is 'truth' so difficult and elusive these days?)  Then let the buyer make up their own mind.  The rep stated that he would tell the 'owner' who was just up the hallway.



Any wise counsel out there?



Signed,

Disappointed in Florida  :-/"

[leslie]

You have two issues here - the manufacturer and the dealer. I knew about the wood in the entry door and went ahead with the purchase because I feel this is the best travel trailer on the market. I will just have to accept the wood in the entry door.

The dealer is another matter. I would like to know the name of this dealer because of the way you have been treated. This is not a dealer I would want to use, not even for repairs under warranty.

Even with all this, I think you will find greater satisfaction with this toy hauler than owners of toy haulers who have gone with a different manufacturer.

[vrvinmo]

[quote timestamp="1420226721" author="@tommyc" source="/post/5784/thread"]It's not a tow rating issue it's a payload issue. Look at the yellow sticker on the door jam and post up what your payload rating is.  ON some of the Eco rams they are as low as 850lbs [/quote][p]This is the best post in this thread. It is all about payload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  [/p][p]
[/p][p]OP, look at the yellow tire and load info sticker in the door jam of your truck and see what your Payload rating is.  The problem you will have is the same problem I have with my 19' VRV.  They are tongue heavy. Add the tongue weight, people weight, and everything else you put on the truck and see if it exceeds the payload rating on the yellow sticker in door jam.  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Also, I totally disagree about feeling better about the trailer knowing you aren't towing toys. Not putting toys in the back INCREASES tongue weight.  Hauling a big toy in the back decreases tongue weight which may be important in our case only having a 1/2 ton truck.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Finally, it is true that there is wood in the VRV's.  Totally false advertising as far as I am concerned.  I bought mine because I didn't want rot, rust, etc.  Well, mine is at the manufacturer now getting the ramp door replaced because it's bubbling through the aluminum skin on the lower part of the ramp door. Manufacturer confirmed it is corrosion caused by some sort of reaction due to dissimilar metals.  I guess the aluminum and doesn't mix well with the metal hinges in the bottom of the ramp door. Also, the ramp doors let moisture in and then the wood core suffers and rots. [/p][p]
[/p][p]I really hope  the OP's like the new trailer, but I believe you may wish you had a 3/4 ton truck when it's all said and done. I hope I'm wrong, and your truck does the trick.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p]

[pinstriper]

[quote timestamp="1420226721" author="@tommyc" source="/post/5784/thread"]It's not a tow rating issue it's a payload issue. Look at the yellow sticker on the door jam and post up what your payload rating is.  ON some of the Eco rams they are as low as 850lbs

[p]This is the best post in this thread. It is all about payload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  [/p][p]
[/p][p]OP, look at the yellow tire and load info sticker in the door jam of your truck and see what your Payload rating is.  The problem you will have is the same problem I have with my 19' VRV.  They are tongue heavy. Add the tongue weight, people weight, and everything else you put on the truck and see if it exceeds the payload rating on the yellow sticker in door jam.  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Also, I totally disagree about feeling better about the trailer knowing you aren't towing toys. Not putting toys in the back INCREASES tongue weight.  Hauling a big toy in the back decreases tongue weight which may be important in our case only having a 1/2 ton truck.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Finally, it is true that there is wood in the VRV's.  Totally false advertising as far as I am concerned.  I bought mine because I didn't want rot, rust, etc.  Well, mine is at the manufacturer now getting the ramp door replaced because it's bubbling through the aluminum skin on the lower part of the ramp door. Manufacturer confirmed it is corrosion caused by some sort of reaction due to dissimilar metals.  I guess the aluminum and doesn't mix well with the metal hinges in the bottom of the ramp door. Also, the ramp doors let moisture in and then the wood core suffers and rots. [/p][p]
[/p][p]I really hope  the OP's like the new trailer, but I believe you may wish you had a 3/4 ton truck when it's all said and done. I hope I'm wrong, and your truck does the trick.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][/quote][p]Good point about the payload and tongue weight. Those are important. [/p][p]
[/p][p]However, it is NOT "all about the payload", if you mean GVWR of the TV, which is where tongue weight would factor.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Putting a toy in the back could well reduce the tongue weight and take you over the tow rating and/or the GCVWR.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Not disagreeing with you other than perhaps to say you are oversimplifying.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Like you, I also would personally have opted for the 3/4 truck with such a long trailer, and being so close to the limits. [/p][p]
[/p]

[tommyc]

It really is all about the payload. You will be over payload capacity on almost every off the lot vehicle long before hitting tow capacity of it. I've played this game I've done the research and I have seen the real world numbers. I had a Tundra double cab (which I loved) before I bought my 2500hd (which I hate) but I would never choose to tow my 24' VRV with the tundra. My trailer is 5200lbs bone dry with nothing in it no batteries, no propane tanks, and nothing in holding tanks on the way home from picking it up. Tongue weight was right about 750lbs now add 2 batteries and a full propane tank we'll call it 850lbs. Add a w/d hitch which is a MUST on these when using a half ton and your at 950lbs. My tundra had a payload rating of 1280lbs which I'm confident is higher than the ops tow vehicle.

Here's how I decide on a new truck
Payload-1280

Minus

Tongue-950
Me-190
Wife-110
Son-65
=35lbs overweight before putting a single item in the trailer or truck.

tundra had the power to pull everything (I'm about 9500lbs loaded) but legally it was overweight and that's what mattered to me. God forbid you were in an accident insurance can deny the claim and potential liabilities are unthinkable.

[dh50]

[quote source="/post/5912/thread" timestamp="1420698546" author="@pinstriper"][quote source="/post/5910/thread" timestamp="1420689500" author="@vrvinmo"][p]This is the best post in this thread. It is all about payload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  [/p][p]
[/p][p]OP, look at the yellow tire and load info sticker in the door jam of your truck and see what your Payload rating is.  The problem you will have is the same problem I have with my 19' VRV.  They are tongue heavy. Add the tongue weight, people weight, and everything else you put on the truck and see if it exceeds the payload rating on the yellow sticker in door jam.  [/p][p]
[/p][p]Also, I totally disagree about feeling better about the trailer knowing you aren't towing toys. Not putting toys in the back INCREASES tongue weight.  Hauling a big toy in the back decreases tongue weight which may be important in our case only having a 1/2 ton truck.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Finally, it is true that there is wood in the VRV's.  Totally false advertising as far as I am concerned.  I bought mine because I didn't want rot, rust, etc.  Well, mine is at the manufacturer now getting the ramp door replaced because it's bubbling through the aluminum skin on the lower part of the ramp door. Manufacturer confirmed it is corrosion caused by some sort of reaction due to dissimilar metals.  I guess the aluminum and doesn't mix well with the metal hinges in the bottom of the ramp door. Also, the ramp doors let moisture in and then the wood core suffers and rots. [/p][p]
[/p][p]I really hope  the OP's like the new trailer, but I believe you may wish you had a 3/4 ton truck when it's all said and done. I hope I'm wrong, and your truck does the trick.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][/quote][p]Good point about the payload and tongue weight. Those are important. [/p][p]
[/p][p]However, it is NOT "all about the payload", if you mean GVWR of the TV, which is where tongue weight would factor.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Putting a toy in the back could well reduce the tongue weight and take you over the tow rating and/or the GCVWR.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Not disagreeing with you other than perhaps to say you are oversimplifying.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Like you, I also would personally have opted for the 3/4 truck with such a long trailer, and being so close to the limits.


My Husband says the door jam sticker (which is white in this case) references GVWR for the truck alone (6950#), then there is front and rear axle rating (3700#) each, but no payload rating.  We are getting ready now to go for inspection and if all goes to plan, will take delivery of the 'Ax', seeing that the dealer has taken the hard-ball stance they've chosen to employ, thereby assuming no responsibility for theirs and Livin Lite's misleading claims of 'no wood' in Livin Lite products.  

Dumb question here....what does 'OP' stand for?  

(Thank you ALL for your counsel and comments.  It is appreciated more than you know....the 'wife')

 [/p][p]
[/p][/quote]

[tommyc]

Op= original poster

Look on the door itself sometimes it gets stuck on there. GVWR is a good start payload= GVWR - actual truck weight. At this point I'm sure you are buying so hit a truck scale on the way home. Weigh the total package then unhook and reweigh just the truck. Probably cost $12 but is money well spent to know your baseline numbers.

[pinstriper]

I know of 4 scales within 30 minutes of me that are free, run by the state for ag trucks. When they are closed, they leave the scale on. ymmv

[david]

Seems like TTs used to include actual, as delivered vehicle weight on the trailer's sticker. No more. I suspect that the same thing happened with trucks. You have to add all of the factory options yourself to the manufacturer's dry curb weight to get actual weight as a place to start. Then add dealer add ons like batteries and propane tanks, water, waste and gear. Easier just to weigh it.

David

[daplumbr]

Bit of thread drift here, but I'll join the fun. Payload is clearly a critical safety issue, no doubt. But my simple mind thinks that tongue weight is one of the easiest things to change by just rebalancing the load in the trailer. I do it every single time I use my utility trailer. Since it is adjustable (admittedly with limits), payload becomes less of a limiting factor. Then TV towing capacity and total weight going down the road start to be important. From experience, if you get very much above or below 10-12% of the trailer weight on the tongue, it can be a problem. Rebalancing the load to achieve that will help keep the trailer contribution to payload down in the TV. In the end, knowing all the relevant numbers for your rig is important to safe towing and that means it's about more than just one factor. 

[vrvinmo]

[quote source="/post/5913/thread" timestamp="1420727482" author="@tommyc"]It really is all about the payload. You will be over payload capacity on almost every off the lot vehicle long before hitting tow capacity of it. I've played this game I've done the research and I have seen the real world numbers. I had a Tundra double cab (which I loved) before I bought my 2500hd (which I hate) but I would never choose to tow my 24' VRV with the tundra. My trailer is 5200lbs bone dry with nothing in it no batteries, no propane tanks, and nothing in holding tanks on the way home from picking it up. Tongue weight was right about 750lbs now add 2 batteries and a full propane tank we'll call it 850lbs. Add a w/d hitch which is a MUST on these when using a half ton and your at 950lbs. My tundra had a payload rating of 1280lbs which I'm confident is higher than the ops tow vehicle.

Here's how I decide on a new truck
Payload-1280

Minus

Tongue-950
Me-190
Wife-110
Son-65
=35lbs overweight before putting a single item in the trailer or truck.

tundra had the power to pull everything (I'm about 9500lbs loaded) but legally it was overweight and that's what mattered to me. God forbid you were in an accident insurance can deny the claim and potential liabilities are unthinkable.
[/quote][p]Again, you truly get it.  OP, listen to this poster!!!!  [/p][p]
[/p][p]I realize it's over simplifying to say "it's all about the TW."  But, in this case, it really is.  The OP's truck, like mine, can probably easily tow close to 10,000#'s. They will run out of payload LONG before they run out of towing capacity.  My F150 has a payload of 1200# Toy hauler's have massive TW, and don't listen to the dealer or manufacturer about how much.  My dealer said my TW was 630#.  WRONG!!! I weighed it at closer to 850#.  So, my payload of 1200# - TW of  850# means I can put 350 #'s on my truck.  Keep in mind my VRV is only a 6x19 model weighing 3300# by itself.  Can my truck tow it. Heck yes, I can hit 80 mph uphill if I want easy. I just can't take anyone with me camping because I'll be over payload.
[/p]

[vrvinmo]

Here is the sticker that will be on the door or jam of the drivers side on all late model vehicles.  This will tell you the payload for your specific vehicle. In my case 1199#.




IMG_1881 by oneboltzfan, on Flickr

[dh50]

Hello all LL owner/enthusiasts!  A sincere word of thanks is in order to each for your thoughtful responses as we contemplated the many factors leading up to final decision on an Axxess TH purchase.  As to the 'door jam sticker', our Ram's sticker turned out to be next to the door jam, on the underside of the cab body.  We sure went round and round crunching numbers as to payload, towing weights, GVWR, etc., etc., and have concluded that in the final analysis, 'absolutes' are elusive since we all concede that manufacturers' data cannot be absolutely trusted, that is, we must adjust 'up or down' to ensure that we're 'absolutely' within safe limits in every way.  (Also elusive is the absolute weight of the women in this family...lol!  )

In the end, one thing is absolutely certain, we must be absolutely certain to load the TH, any unit for that matter, in such ways that deference is always given to TV's payload limitations...though not the payload alone!?  O_o  Absolutely! 

Thank you each again....

[vrvinmo]

[quote source="/post/5952/thread" timestamp="1421096728" author="@gwbushhog"]Hello all LL owner/enthusiasts!  A sincere word of thanks is in order to each for your thoughtful responses as we contemplated the many factors leading up to final decision on an Axxess TH purchase.  As to the 'door jam sticker', our Ram's sticker turned out to be next to the door jam, on the underside of the cab body.  We sure went round and round crunching numbers as to payload, towing weights, GVWR, etc., etc., and have concluded that in the final analysis, 'absolutes' are elusive since we all concede that manufacturers' data cannot be absolutely trusted, that is, we must adjust 'up or down' to ensure that we're 'absolutely' within safe limits in every way.  (Also elusive is the absolute weight of the women in this family...lol!  )

In the end, one thing is absolutely certain, we must be absolutely certain to load the TH, any unit for that matter, in such ways that deference is always given to TV's payload limitations...though not the payload alone!?  O_o  Absolutely! 

Thank you each again....


[/quote]So what is your payload rating and did you buy the Access?