2014 21BHS - Weighty Matters!

[daplumbr]

Good lesson for me to watch the weight of what I add to the load. Maybe I don't need the ping pong table. 

[fasteddieb]

[quote timestamp="1414452836" author="@shovelhead" source="/post/4477/thread"]This has diagrams and a lot of help.
http://www.etrailer.com/faq-how-to-determine-trailer-tongue-weight.aspx
[/quote]Cool! 

I'm pretty sure I came up with my levered bathroom scale method on my own - great minds and all that!

Interesting that they show their actual tongue weight scale measuring the weight back at the tongue jack pad. I'd think that would show enough more* than the actual weight at the ball to make some small difference.

Tongue weight ideally should be the weight right at the coupler, right?


*More, right? My first instinct was less. But  closer to the pivot point (the wheels) the higher the scale would read. Right?

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Your correct, Eddie, but the difference between ball and jack loads is small. Mathematically it's D1F1=D2F2 where D1 and D2 are the distances from the two points to the center of the axles and F1, F2 are the corresponding measures forces. The error in each measurement relative to the other is the ratio of the distances. Since they are very close when measured to the axles you can sleep easy with either. Probably around 10% which is within the margin of variability from trailer loading and incline. Not to worry  8-).
[/font]

[fasteddieb]

Got it!

I'm about to go play.

Thinking about it, I will need to either do it with the hitch and trunnions (they ain't exactly light!) near the coupler, or add their weight to my results to get the TOTAL tongue weight.

Right?

[spot1]

We backed into our TT tongue weight by weighing complete rig, TV/TT on the local landfill scales and pulling forward only weighing the TT axle. Pulled off the scales, disconnected the TT and weighed only TV. Subtracted TV weight from complete rig weight to get TT weight & subtracted TT axle weight from TT weight to get tongue weight.

A bottle jack with PSI gauge can be used when pressure is measured across piston surface area.  

Here's how one guy did it & posted about it:

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=125881

 

[charliem]

[font size="3"]EDDIE,
With the trunnions disconnected from the TT you do add the hitch and trunnions to the measured TW for purposes of figuring the load on the TV, but not for figuring the percentage of TT weight on the TT tongue. The hitch and trunnions are, in effect, part of the TV and do not count as part of the TT or its TW. However, when you hook up the trunnions everything becomes fuzzy. The function of the WDH is to move part or all of the TW onto the TT axles and TV front axle. But rest easy. You may be cutting it too fine. I would weigh the stand alone trailer and measure the TW without the hitch/trunnions and use those numbers for your stability evaluation.

BILL,
Your method is correct if you measured the TT axle weight without a WDH connected. You don't say if you're using WDH. If you are, see above. And TNX for the bottle jack link. Never heard/thought of that.[/font]

[spot1]

[quote source="/post/4516/thread" timestamp="1414525069" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]BILL,
Your method is correct if you measured the TT axle weight without a WDH connected. You don't say if you're using WDH. If you are, see above. And TNX for the bottle jack link. Never heard/thought of that.[/font]
[/quote]Charlie,

Good point on the WDH

I don't use WDH with our rig.

TT 1940lbs
TT Axle 1640lbs
Tongue 300lbs

The guys in our shop used to use a bottle jack to set railroad hy-rail (Fairmont) car/pickup vehicle wheel weight on the rail with a bottle jack. If I remember correctly, it was around 450lbs per hy-rail wheel on the track.

[fasteddieb]

I may have a dilemma.

I used a landscape timber, so:



Next step may be to find a proper scale to confirm my readings. Thanks for the offer in Cumming, but I'm pretty sure I can find one closer.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Eddie,

I don't see anything wrong with you measurements, but I am surprised at the results. 720# seems very heavy unless you have a lot of stuff up forward on the trailer. How many batteries and gas bottles? Is the trailer level when you're measuring? I assume the stabilizing jacks in the picture are not in contact with the ground? Did Karen[/font] [font size="3"]stow your motorcycle up front in the trailer??  
[/font][font size="3"]
The 440# number from LL is usually without batteries and only one empty gas bottle. If the Flex tows OK with the WDH engaged I'd only be concerned with the total combined weight rating (GCWR), and the rear axle rating (GAWR). GCWR is the sum of TT and TV weights you've already measured; the actual weight on the rear axle you'll have to measure at a truck scale.
[/font]

[david]

So one way gives you 280 lbs and another gives you 720 lbs. Hmm, something isn't working here. As another poster indicated, if you have a friendly scale nearby, weigh the TV(only) with the trailer connected- roll up to the scale with the trailer wheels off of it, and then weigh the TV with it not connected and subtract to get a fairly close reading.

I would suspect that you are in the neighborhood of 500 lbs.

David

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Eddie,

Does the Flex have a Unibody or a true truck type frame? The WDH puts a lot of torque on the hitch receiver that gets transferred to the "frame". That's one of the things that limits the TW rating.
[/font]

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/4522/thread" timestamp="1414532048" author="@david"]So one way gives you 280 lbs and another gives you 720 lbs. Hmm, something isn't working here. As another poster indicated, if you have a friendly scale nearby, weigh the TV(only) with the trailer connected- roll up to the scale with the trailer wheels off of it, and then weigh the TV with it not connected and subtract to get a fairly close reading.

I would suspect that you are in the neighborhood of 500 lbs.

David[/quote][font size="3"]Good suggestion if you take the readings without the WDH engaged. I also would expect around 500#. Mine comes in at 525#.
[/font]

[fasteddieb]

Going through the stuff we carry with a line item veto:






Well, it's a start!

Now Karen has to do the same things with our housewares.

[leslie]

I grok.

[fasteddieb]

I grok.

Still agonizing over whether I can make do with less than 650 tywraps!

Our mantra is, "There's always WalMart!"