Towing a 16DBA with Half Ton

[kmaxxx]

I just recently purchased a 2013 Campsite 16DB and would like to share some experiences towing.  I have a 2013 Subaru with a V6 and a 2005 Silverado 4x4 Z71 with a 4.8l V8 and factory tow package.  I can safely say that after towing with the Chev, I would probably never attempt towing with the Subaru (even though the dry weight of the trailer is less than the towing capacity of the Subaru).  These observations are based on about 2400km (1500 miles) of towing over exposed prairie and the foothills:

- weight is not nearly as much of an issue as wind resistance.  The trailer sticks up a fair amount above my truck so it acts a decent sized sail.  I pull a 18ft Lund Tyee v6 in board/outboard which with the steel trailer weighs more than the camper (even when loaded).  The boat is noticeably easier to pull.

- wind and hills can make for interesting driving.  My truck would often have to shift down to 2nd gear (4 speed auto) to maintain a speed of 60 miles/hr.   This rarely happens with my boat.  

- did not feel substantial sway unless I was behind a semi in a head wind (wash from the semi trailer), or had stiff cross winds.  Again, no way the Subaru could handle this if my truck had challenges (at times).

I would be curious on the experiences of those with a Subaru sized vehicle and say a 13ft CampLite.  Did wind really impact on performance?  More so than expected?  I believe the 13ft models are as high as the 16ft ones, so impacts of a head on wind would be the same.  

Again, I was quite surprised by the performance of my truck with towing a trailer that weighed about half the capacity of my truck.  I would think towing any of these trailers with a weight approaching the tow vehicle capacity would be very difficult in any sort of wind.

[david]

Darryl:

I tow a 16TBS with a 2013 Nissan Pathfinder rated to tow 5,000 lbs. My loaded trailer weighs about 3,500 lbs. It tows very nicely.

Wind resistance is a huge factor that can tax a small engine. Mine is 3.5 liters and I think it is adequate for this towing service. On a level road at steady speed I get: 15 mpg at 50 mph, 13.5 at 60 mph and 12 or less at 70 mph. I wouldn't want to stress the engine by towing full time at 70. 60 mph works best for me.

I think that most midsize SUVs or small Ranger size pickups can tow the 16' LLs just fine. Above that, at the very least I would install a WDH to tow with those vehicles but I would really want a full size 1/2 ton pickup or similar full size SUV if for no other reason than to carry the tongue weight.

David

[kmaxxx]

I'm sure I could pull the my 16ft camplite with my 2013 Subaru, but I wouldn't do it.  I'm confident it would only work on flat ground with zero wind.  Again, very happy with the trailer (I LOVE the dual axles and electric brakes), but drag and wind impacts seem to contradict the benefits of light weight.  On paper, my truck is way more than adequate to pull this trailer.  Real life experience is very different.  

I'm sure a Tacoma/Colorado/Ranger sized 1/4 ton could pull a 16ft camplite, I'm not sure I would do it long distance or in a stiff prairie headwind, which is all too common where I live. 

For comparison, the 2013 Nissan with the V6 power plant produces 265hp with 240 ft/lbs torque.  The 2005 4.8l (293 cid) produces 285hp with 310 ft/lbs torque.  Gross vehicle weight is very close at 5913 and 6200 lbs respectively.  While not the same as the 6.0l found in the 2500 models, its still a decent engine.  Would have to double check my rear end, but I think they are 3.42 gears (3.73 or 4.10 would be better for towing).  That said, my truck will not perform well at all in a 20-25 mph headwind with gusts, regardless of how fast I drive (again forcing the tranny to drop to 2nd gear to keep the engine revs up).  Doable, but not ideal.  Otherwise, pulls great.  Even better with a tail wind

[david]

Hi Darryl:

In my mind there are two drive train considerations for towing (ignoring TV GVWR, wheel base, etc.) One is liters of engine size and the other is the transmission/rear end.

I tow my 16TBS at 60 mph at 2,200 rpm and get 13.5 mpg. With no trailer it runs 60 at 1,750 rpm and gets 26 mpg. The Pathfinder has a CVS transmission so the gear ratio is infinitely variable.

So the engine burns twice the fuel towing as not towing. That means roughly twice the horsepower. 60/13.5 = 4.4 gph of gas while towing. Modern gasoline engines produce about 12 hp per gph so that means the engine is producing a bit more than 50 hp or 15 hp per liter. That is ok in my mind. But to tow at 70 mph it would need to produce 20 hp per liter which I think is pushing it. Your 4.8 liter engine should be loafing at 60 mph and using only 15 hp per liter at 70.

The other issue is to never, ever tow for any distance (up a hill is ok) with the torque converter unlocked. This produces lots of heat and will destroy the torque converter. Most modern transmissions lock up in the upper two gears, but I suspect it unlocks in second gear on your Suburu. So I agree, don't tow for long with the Subaru.

David

[sam]

I purchased a used 2013 13QBB last year. My wife and I drove it from Chicago to Alaska and back this summer. A trip of just over 10,000 miles. We towed it with a 2013 Honda Pilot Touring. We packed very conservatively, checked the tong  weight, etc. In general I drive very conservatively, typical between 55 and 60. It will handle "seemingly well" at 70 "on the flats", but would probably not recover well from an emergency.

The car did well when going up hill and down. Up very steep hills the RPMs would go up and the milage indicator word drop well below 10 mpg. The opposite would happen going down hill. It is difficult to tell if there is a drop in milage at elevation because of the effort going up hill. (There is supposed to be a significant drop in towing capability per 1,000 feet - I think around 2% per 1000'. I was well under the maximum at all times.)

I do not have a WDH, as Honda recommends against them. The trailer tracked very well. In high winds on the plains the trailer would sway, but that could be controlled by slowing down. The response was immediate. On interstates with one lane in each direction and people driving 50-60 in both directions my extended rear view mirror would blow in form the force of a semi and the trailer would shudder, but only sway slightly.

This combination also had the benefit that it fits nicely into a double parking slot at the malls.

Typically I get between 22 and 27 on the interstate depending on the hills, the wind and my speed. Towing flat on the interstate with no wind is 13-13.5 mpg. The trip averaged 12 and dipped as low as 8. Most of the trip to Alaska was in the 9-11 range. There was a significant improvement on the downhill trip back.

The biggest issue with the Honda is range when towing. (It has a 21 gal tank - you do the math.) The distance between gas stations was an issue. A few times the planned stop no longer had a station. A little close twice. I am currently considering purchasing a 1/2 ton truck. While it may cost more to haul there are a few models with very big tanks. In addition, in certain situations I will be able to carry some extra gas in the bed relatively safely. The key issue for me now is the milage on the trucks if I am to increase range even with a big tank. (We are going back to Alaska.)

I hope this is helpful, any thoughts are welcome.

[djsamuel]

[quote source="/post/3956/thread" timestamp="1412090902" author="@littlerichie"]

I purchased a used 2013 13QBB last year. My wife and I drove it from Chicago to Alaska and back this summer. A trip of just over 10,000 miles. We towed it with a 2013 Honda Pilot Touring. We packed very conservatively, checked the tong weight, etc. In general I drive very conservatively, typical between 55 and 60. It will handle "seemingly well" at 70 "on the flats", but would probably not recover well from an emergency.

The car did well when going up hill and down. Up very steep hills the RPMs would go up and the milage indicator word drop well below 10 mpg. The opposite would happen going down hill. It is difficult to tell if there is a drop in milage at elevation because of the effort going up hill. (There is supposed to be a significant drop in towing capability per 1,000 feet - I think around 2% per 1000'. I was well under the maximum at all times.)

I do not have a WDH, as Honda recommends against them. The trailer tracked very well. In high winds on the plains the trailer would sway, but that could be controlled by slowing down. The response was immediate. On interstates with one lane in each direction and people driving 50-60 in both directions my extended rear view mirror would blow in form the force of a semi and the trailer would shudder, but only sway slightly.

This combination also had the benefit that it fits nicely into a double parking slot at the malls.

Typically I get between 22 and 27 on the interstate depending on the hills, the wind and my speed. Towing flat on the interstate with no wind is 13-13.5 mpg. The trip averaged 12 and dipped as low as 8. Most of the trip to Alaska was in the 9-11 range. There was a significant improvement on the downhill trip back.

The biggest issue with the Honda is range when towing. (It has a 21 gal tank - you do the math.) The distance between gas stations was an issue. A few times the planned stop no longer had a station. A little close twice. I am currently considering purchasing a 1/2 ton truck. While it may cost more to haul there are a few models with very big tanks. In addition, in certain situations I will be able to carry some extra gas in the bed relatively safely. The key issue for me now is the milage on the trucks if I am to increase range even with a big tank. (We are going back to Alaska.)

I hope this is helpful, any thoughts are welcome.

[/quote]A half ton would work great for you.  We tow a 21BHS with a Ram 1500 with the 4.7L engine.  Just finished a trip from Florida to the Grand Canyon and Moab, UT, a little over 5,000 miles.  The Ram handled the 21BHS great, including the steep grades (some as high as 10%).  With an average speed on the Interstates of 65MPH, we averaged 11MPG on fuel mileage.  The performance of a half ton with the 13QBB would be even better.

[cl21bhs]

I just purchased a 2015 Chevy Tahoe 4x4 5.3 L with max tow package to pull my 21bhs loaded weight of 4,200 lbs tongue weight 575. Wow what a difference a properly matched tow vehicle makes. The Tahoe is an unbelievable vehicle and tows like a champ. It is rated to tow 8,300 lbs, has a built in brake controller, haul mode and auto rear air leveler. We have been on two short trips about 150 miles each and have gotten about 11 mpg, no wdh and it has handled very well.

[daplumbr]

littlerichie, I'll bet my wife and I met you at the Livin Lite factory during our tour in August? You had a great Pilot-QBB combo. That Pilot is a nice vehicle and even though the tank range while towing is probably around 200 miles, surely there aren't any places with stations further than that? Let me know if that's that case, because I'd like to head to Alaska too and my TV may not have much more range than that!

[pinstriper]

Every maker will recommend against WDH with unibody construction.

You really need body-on-frame for WDH, and of course higher towing capacity. That, and drivetrain and braking need to be beefed up. Oh, and tv mass and wheelbase.

All those things that a compact SUV won't have.

[sam]

[quote source="/post/2840/thread" timestamp="1408662319" author="@whitefish"]I just recently purchased a 2013 Campsite 16DB and would like to share some experiences towing.  I have a 2013 Subaru with a V6 and a 2005 Silverado 4x4 Z71 with a 4.8l V8 and factory tow package.  I can safely say that after towing with the Chev, I would probably never attempt towing with the Subaru (even though the dry weight of the trailer is less than the towing capacity of the Subaru).  These observations are based on about 2400km (1500 miles) of towing over exposed prairie and the foothills:

- weight is not nearly as much of an issue as wind resistance.  The trailer sticks up a fair amount above my truck so it acts a decent sized sail.  I pull a 18ft Lund Tyee v6 in board/outboard which with the steel trailer weighs more than the camper (even when loaded).  The boat is noticeably easier to pull.

- wind and hills can make for interesting driving.  My truck would often have to shift down to 2nd gear (4 speed auto) to maintain a speed of 60 miles/hr.   This rarely happens with my boat.  

- did not feel substantial sway unless I was behind a semi in a head wind (wash from the semi trailer), or had stiff cross winds.  Again, no way the Subaru could handle this if my truck had challenges (at times).

I would be curious on the experiences of those with a Subaru sized vehicle and say a 13ft CampLite.  Did wind really impact on performance?  More so than expected?  I believe the 13ft models are as high as the 16ft ones, so impacts of a head on wind would be the same.  

Again, I was quite surprised by the performance of my truck with towing a trailer that weighed about half the capacity of my truck.  I would think towing any of these trailers with a weight approaching the tow vehicle capacity would be very difficult in any sort of wind.[/quote]

[sam]

I am well under my weight limit with a Honda Pilot and the weight appears to be properly distributed. I note that the stronger the wind, the slower I must go. Speed and wind seem to increase sway. I suspect that too much weight in the rear will amplify any sway.

[sam]

littlerichie, I'll bet my wife and I met you at the Livin Lite factory during our tour in August? You had a great Pilot-QBB combo. That Pilot is a nice vehicle and even though the tank range while towing is probably around 200 miles, surely there aren't any places with stations further than that? Let me know if that's that case, because I'd like to head to Alaska too and my TV may not have much more range than that!

[sam]

[quote timestamp="1412129732" author="@sandroad" source="/post/3982/thread"]littlerichie, I'll bet my wife and I met you at the Livin Lite factory during our tour in August? You had a great Pilot-QBB combo. That Pilot is a nice vehicle and even though the tank range while towing is probably around 200 miles, surely there aren't any places with stations further than that? Let me know if that's that case, because I'd like to head to Alaska too and my TV may not have much more range than that!

[/quote]

Are you the couple with the 16 ft  slide out with couch waiting for delivery??

The pilot is great. The range is shorty in much of Alaska ( where we hope to go back) Because gas stations. Are often far apart I try not to go much below 1/2 tank. We had at least two experiences where the stations had closed and the next one was close to the limit.  In another case we ditched the camper because the gas station was too far.  

[daplumbr]

Yup, that's us. If all goes well, our wait will be over tomorrow (Oct 2). !!!