Letter from customer regarding towing

[dhrvcenter]

Hello All,


I was given permission from this customer to post this letter he sent me the other day.  He said would probably join the board. So, I'm sure he'll have some comments for us all to read.  Here's what he said:


Hi Dave:
 
Thought you might be interested in our experiences towing and camping with the LL trailer we purchased from you this spring.
 
We have towed for about 1,500 miles- 2/3 interstate and 1/3 secondary roads.  As you  know I was concerned about towing without a weight distribution hitch with sway control. I can now agree with Troy at the factory- it is not needed with our tow vehicle. Let me remind you that our TV is a 2013 Pathfinder (the new model with a crossover style body, not the body on frame previous years model). It has a 3.5 liter engine and makes 260 hp and 240 ft lbs of torque.
 
There is no sway even when passed by a big truck. The hitch weight is now about 275 lbs after adding stuff, up from 240 lbs as delivered. I am guessing our total tow weight is about 3,300 lbs. The rig gets about 13+ mpg on the interstate running in the low 60s and the same on secondary roads averaging about 45 mph.
 
So I am totally delighted about its towing performance.
 
And I am equally delighted about how it works as a camper. The twin beds with the pull out sofa was a good choice. One thing I might do differently is to do away with the storage compartment in between the beds. It sort of isolates one sleeper from the other, which is ok for a couple of guys but less ok for an old married couple like us .
 
As you recall I was a little worried about the refrigerator as I wasn't sure if it was working (in 30 degree weather) but I tried it later in warmer weather and it cooled down fine after a half day.
 
We haven't begun to tax the single battery with just overnights. We will give it a better workout when we go up to Maine for 5-6 days. But since we will be travelling every other day and that will recharge the battery fully I don't think it will ever be a problem. So no second battery planned. The LED lights definitely conserves power.
 
So that is our report.

[david]

I am the author of the letter posted by Dave above. Let me expand on it a bit.

First I made an extensive post to the weight distribution/sway/tongue weight thread, so I would like to answer those questions in that thread.

But let me talk about construction, weight and gas mileage a bit.

The LL trailer is probably THE lightest trailer for its size with its all aluminum frame, skin, interior framing and Azdel paneling. It is expensive, but it saves weight. My 16' Camplite probably weighs something close to 3,300 lbs loaded. Any steel frame trailer is going to weigh 4,000 lbs and upwards. I wouldn't tow that kind of weight with my medium SUV.

The light trailer weight and the gas mileage features that Nissan offers in the new Pathfinder result in 13.5 MPG on the interstate traveling in the low 60s. And we also get about 13.5 MPG travelling on secondary roads with stop and goes at all of the little towns. We could go faster, but the mileage drops off significantly at 70, maybe 12 MPG or less at that speed.

The Pathfinder has a modern DOC 3.5 liter V6 with a CV transmission. I was concerned about that newish transmission design but so far so good. We try to keep the back of the SUV light and put all of our gear in the trailer so as not to tax the GVWR of the TV.

Moving to the camper, the interior is kind of industrial looking. Someone likened it to an ambulance's interior and one said maybe more like a spacecraft. We like it and the look sort of grows on you. I do wish LL would come up with a good way to insulate below the floor. We installed 18" carpet squares and that will work fine for our 2 season camping.

The size is just marginal for two. We have twin beds with a sofa pullout- a D&H RV innovation. That doesn't leave much floor area, but for a couple it is ok. I could put a camp chair inside on rainy days, but so far we haven't had to do that. You can't really sit two on the narrow sofa for any length of time.

All mechanical/electrical systems have worked fine. They are all Dometic standard RV stuff. The single battery has held up well. At first I thought about doubling up the battery capacity, but now I don't think so. I am a long time boater/cruiser and these systems are similar. I have installed solar on a few of my boats, but camping trailers are different- we park them in the shade under the trees, so I don't think that is in the cards.

We live in eastern NC for half the year and in Connecticut for the summer half. We brought the camper up here in Ct where we will leave it for the winter. We like to camp in National Forest, National Park and the more rustic state parks. We just got back from an overnight at a state park in southern Vermont, Woodford State Park. The layout is as nice as any National Forest CG we have been to and the whole setup just looks like it is in tune with the environment.

Our plans this summer are another overnight or so to up to northern Vermont and a week in Maine including Acadia National Park and then maybe some fall camping back in Vermont.

Ask me any questions.

David M

[drdave]

Hi Dave,
     Thanks for posting.   Can you elaborate on your sway control setup?  Brand, how it is attached to your frame? Pics maybe?    I'm picking my 16db up tomorrow AM and am very excited, but mildly concerned about sway on the open highway.    I am towing with a Nissan Frontier pickup truck.   I don't believe I would need WD, but sway control might be nice.    I installed a prodigy P3 brake controller.    Do you use any additional mirrors on your TV?    

Thanks,
  Todd

[dhrvcenter]

There was no sway control installed on the camper.  The new technology in the SUV handled the camper without any sway or weight distribution.   Have fun with your new camper.  It is a great product.  

Take care!

[david]

As Dave notes above, we do not use a WDH or sway control while towing with our 2013 Pathfinder. It doesn't need it at all.

Sway is influenced by several factors: hitch weight (more is good), TV weight (more is good), TV wheelbase (more is good), trailer length (more is bad, trailer weight (more is bad), stiffness of the TV's suspension and active sway control built in to the TV.

Your Frontier is a little lighter than my Pathfinder I think. It's wheelbase is probably the same, and I suspect its suspension stiffness is greater. So you should be fine without any sway control.

The Pathfinder is rather wide and the LL is narrower at 7' than many trailers. So the mirrors are adequate. Your Frontier I suspect is a bit narrower, so you might look at add on mirrors.

David

[drdave]

Thanks for the posts!    We got it home just fine!    It's about a 1 1/2 hr. drive home from the dealer.   No interstate, but 2 and 4 lane secondary roads 45-55 MPH limits.   I was passed by several Tractor Trailers at different spots with no ill effect.  I don't think I will bother with sway control at least for the forseeable future.   My prodigy P3 brake controller worked great!     We spent the afternoon loading out camping gear in and making notes of what we need to get a wally world.   

I see what you mean regarding mirrors.    I picked up a mirror extender but probably will reserve installation only for longer trips as I would describe it more as beneficial than necessary.    

I purchased our camplite from BoatNRV.   I was NOT impressed with their aggressive sales personnel, but stayed firm and dealt with it because they had the best price we could find on our "new' 2013 leftover.   BUT!!!: the PDI and service folks were great! (so far!)   The tires had been "boarderline" dry-rotted discovered upon inspection so the replaced all 4 with brand new tires!   I apparently blew a fuse sometime on the past for the running lights on my frontier, but they troubleshooted that no problem and no charge.    The guy who did the PDI was a bit goofy, but down to earth and knew his stuff so we were also pleasantly suprised after dealing with their sales dept.    

We will be driveway camping this weekend and going on our first overnighter next weekend to Killens Pond SP in Delaware with the inlaws and some other extended family, so should be great time!