Failed Frame Welds

[david]

I looked under the front of my 16TBS yesterday and even though the welds were rather gnarly I didn't see any cracks. Mine was built in the winter of 2012/13 in the old plant under Scott Tuttle's ownership.

These welds wouldn't begin to pass inspection in the refining and petrochemical industry. One look at them by a foreman and the welder would be sent home and the weld ground out and redone.

It probably only takes an hour or so of actual welding time to weld up the frame on a LL. How many units does LL build in a day? Should only take a couple of trained aluminum welders to do it right and another guy who knows what he is looking for to inspect and sign off on them.

Frame integrity is at the heart of what LL is selling. How could they not get this right?

David

[pjcd]

I have posted a lot of quality control issues with my trailer, I was willing to over look a lot of sloppy work. This issue with the frame is just another example of poor quality control, apparently they were more interested in pumping out trailers then safety. But, then again, why should I be surprised, the RV industry in general has a low threshold for quality.

[canuck]

Hi,

Reflecting, I am very happy I did not decide to add a layer of spray foam insulation under the frame body. That would have hidden all of my weld issues and would have been downright catastrophic! I am curious if any owners have added some spray foam insulation or if the factory Lizard Skin spray option has covered things up. The spray foam insulation is becoming very popular, at least in here in Alberta.

[david]

I asked Mr. Dan Miller, an LL employee who monitors this forum to comment on the frame welds. Here is his response:

Hi David,

I follow the forum daily. But they keep me pretty busy. Yes, it would be a case by case thing if out of warranty. Thank goodness it has been very isolated however. I make sure production is made aware of any issues like these.
Tom our plant manager does a good job of following up. I am sure they are watching very closely! I am keeping track of them.

Dan

I feel better that this is a very isolated problem, but I was a little disappointed about his somewhat casual statement that "Tom our plant manager does a good job of following up." I would have thought that LL had someone dedicated to welding quality. I understand the consequences are a little different, but the power, petrochemical and refining industry has a whole different approach to weld quality. Welders are tested, x-rays are made of a percentage of welds and weld records kept. If a welder busts too many welds, he is gone.

If it is an isolated problem as he says, well I guess I can accept their approach. Like I said above, my welds are gnarly and wouldn't meet that industry's standard of quality, but they haven't cracked.

I would point out to Mr. Miller that aluminum frame welds are much more critical than steel frame welds. You need to achieve a much higher percentage of perfection in an aluminum weld than a steel one for it to be effective. I think it takes a different approach to quality to get it right.

David

[pjcd]

I  find it hard to believe this is as "isolated" as he would make it sound. I would think that there are units out there that the owners aren't even aware of a potential problem, and just as many who don't report it when found. Even with that said, is it customary to only weld one side of the support or just tack it on others?

On a side note, I've been riding aluminum bikes for twenty years, I know that for the most part these are custom builds, but the quality of the welds are night and day compared to the sloppy welds on LL trailers.

[david]

Aluminum bikes require almost perfect welds. While LL can probably get by with a weld 50% as strong as possible, an aluminum bike sees incredible stresses at the welded joints. Those welds need to be near 100%. The bike manufacturer's know this and put emphasis on doing high quality welds, otherwise their product will fall apart in the field. A weld on a bike like I saw on my LL wouldn't get out of the factory and the welder wouldn't have a job.

David

[daplumbr]

[quote source="/post/25331/thread" timestamp="1476364081" author="@david"]I looked under the front of my 16TBS yesterday and even though the welds were rather gnarly I didn't see any cracks. Mine was built in the winter of 2012/13 in the old plant under Scott Tuttle's ownership.

These welds wouldn't begin to pass inspection in the refining and petrochemical industry. One look at them by a foreman and the welder would be sent home and the weld ground out and redone.

It probably only takes an hour or so of actual welding time to weld up the frame on a LL. How many units does LL build in a day? Should only take a couple of trained aluminum welders to do it right and another guy who knows what he is looking for to inspect and sign off on them.

Frame integrity is at the heart of what LL is selling. How could they not get this right?

David[/quote]I checked our 16TBS too (September, 2014 build) and found them like those on David's. Sloppy and partial with lots of burning and tacks, except for the highly visible welds on the top of the tongue and top of the rear bumper, which appear perfect. No obvious cracks, however. It's something I'll look at more carefully at with a mag glass and bright light before our trip east next summer. 

[pjcd]

This is just the slide side of the trailer, I didn't get all the welds, but you can get the idea.

[pjcd]

and some more,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[gnies]

I don't know much about weld but mine look in no way bad like that!

[david]

Some of mine do look like those. No tack welds and no cracks, at least in the front where I looked.

David

[leslie]

Yep, they don't look pretty.

[canuck]

Pjcd,

Unfortunate that we are in the same situation but at least now you can get the welds and non-welds repaired.

David has posted some good information regarding LL's awareness of the condition as well.

Good luck!

[pjcd]

[quote timestamp="1475280775" source="/post/25051/thread" author="@sandroad"]...My wife said the frame weld failure needs to be reported to the National Highway Traffic Safety Admininstration through www.safercar.gov. If widespread, LL may have to conduct a recall. 

I agree..anyone with structural weld issues should report the issue to NHTSA at safercar.gov. I haven't tried it myself, but it looks like you can put in a VIN to test to make sure it's recognized.

Graham[/quote]If anyone is interested in the number to lodge a compliant to NHTSA, 1-888-327-4236

[silverfox]

Hi Folks, I have a 2016 13QBB. (March 2015 Build). I just checked all/most of the welds today and found no cracks, they all look pretty solid and neat thankfully. Trailer has about 1500 miles on it, only used this summer.