Disappointed

[pinstriper]

[quote source="/post/17673/thread" author="@david" timestamp="1452552703"]Christanm, with all due respect you aren't cutting it. Statements like the single axle being "upgraded" to 4,400 lbs. on the 16TBS from twin 3,500 lb axles are not helpful. You are fast losing credibility.

David

[font size="3"]I defense of Christian I believe she meant the single 4400# axle was better than a single 3500# axle would have been, not that the single 4400 was better than dual 3500s.

That said I agree we may be beating a dead horse. LL Thor will do whatever they think best for their profit line regardless of what present owners say.
[/font][/quote]I'm with Charlie. I think Christian is doing a good service, and we don't need to beat her up personally when we need to throw a rock thru LL's window. Yay Christian !!

I'm a net promoter for LL, as I think most of us are. What is frustrating is to see them change all the things that make us so enthusiastic in our promotion of the product.

I personally get many people commenting on our trailer whenever we camp. Hell, I had some crazy lady follow me for like 7 miles from the highway until she caught up with us in a parking lot, just to look at our trailer. One of the things I always point out is how it is about the only trailer in this size with 2 axles. It boggles the mind as to who thought this was something that needed to be changed. Boggles, I tells ya. Boggles.

[farmboy]

When I read Christian's comments about the change from the dual to a single axle , she was addressing Charlie's legitimate concern that LL had simply removed one axle and left a single 3500# one.  She passed on what the LL engineers told her.  I think it is optimistic to expect upper management to directly address the concerns of some current owners regarding changes that LL is making.  However, when potential purchasers such as scbillandjane point out the apparent need for a ladder to enter the single axel units, one has to question what the engineers who determined that a single, larger axle was an improvement were thinking when they left a single step on the units.  It has been asked here and in other forums:  do the designers and engineers actually use the RV's that they build?   Christian is doing what she said she would do; following  up on concerns from individual owners directly with them,  and passing  on the input from  forum members to her superiors.     Thanks, Christian. 

[solds88]

[font size="3" face="comic sans ms"]Christian, good job, you go girl !![/font]

[admin]

While I share everyone's disappointment at LL's changes, I think that we are close to being seen as whiners by the factory. But I also think that an LL executive should chime in and clearly state what their approach to LL models is- wood or no wood, aluminum interior, one or two axles on the 16TBS, insulated 4 season truck campers, no customization, etc. The list of disappointing changes goes on and on.

Christanm, with all due respect you aren't cutting it. Statements like the single axle being "upgraded" to 4,400 lbs. on the 16TBS from twin 3,500 lb axles are not helpful. You are fast losing credibility.

Unless LL wants to ignore these complaints, Christianm, I think it is time for someone with authority and common sense to comprehensively respond here. Otherwise this topic has become an irrelevant exercise in futility.

David

I think you have unrealistic expectations here. All in all I think we are fortunate that the factory even pays us any attention at all, let alone having a dedicated liaison to interact with. Christian has been more than willing to help where she can, go and find answers when needed, and/or get users in contact with the right people to help. No one should expect her to be an expert in areas that she would not typically work in and expecting otherwise (to use your term) is an exercise in futility.

There is plenty of leeway on this forum to express differences in opinions, ideas, frustrations, just about anything. However I will not allow it to cross into personal attacks, so everyone please keep it civil.
It is also my personal opinion that statements such as "bless your heart", "all due respect", "no offense but", etc. are not magic erasers. They dont allow people to say something rude or offensive just because they are said.

[daplumbr]

A good friend of ours called last weekend asking about our Camplite. She knew we were having some great experiences camping with it and that we really liked both it and the opportunities it opened up for us as a long-term investment in fun. She has a T@B and was inquiring on behalf of another friend of hers about getting a trailer with a bathroom (among other things). My wife extolled the many virtues of the Camplite, cautioning only to find and use a good dealer and to make sure the trailer delivered had the expected features. She also mentioned this forum, one of the valuable aspects of Camplite ownership.

Early on, we picked this forum out for the thoughtful, useful, humorous, and level-headed posts from an obviously good bunch of folks. I hope it stays that way. When LL makes a bone-headed decision (single axle 16 comes to mind), this forum should vent loud and long. So long as that that criticism is part of the larger picture by also posting the fun we are having with our campers, it likely won't cross the line into whining or worse.

I know from other forums I participate in that don't have a "Christian" that hers is an extremely valuable role both here and within the company. No communication system is even close to perfect, but having LL engage two-way with social media like this forum helps close an otherwise huge communications gap. Knowing a bit about how difficult her type of job is, kudos to her for what she has been able to do.

I say keep the sense of humor, voice the disappointments and frustrations, but also post often about the good times.

[pjcd]

I'm heading into my second camping season and my overall opinion is that I still made a good choice with my CL, There were issues with the trailer that needed attention, (quality control) and some of them were mind boggling. But, I'm still happy with my purchase. Having owned several different trailers, I still consider CL's all aluminum construction to be superior. Unless something catastrophic happens, I don't see any reason to be unhappy with their product.

[gbpack]

Even though we are only one week into our first trip in our new camper, we are loving our 21BHS. Sure, it would have been nice for them to include an inside switch for the electric side of the water heater, and it would have been nice of them to NOT wire the WH and Microwave on the same circuit breaker (each are supposed to have their own), but those are things that can be taken care of and are relatively small in the grand scheme of things. The trailer itself is solid and of good construction, quality, fit and tows like a charm. We have already received a number of compliments from various campers and people we've meet so far on the trip. After showing one of them the inside, he went as far to say that it was the nicest trailer he's ever seen! He loved the construction, layout, and all of the features that are included. As disappointing as we all might be in what the new ownership is doing to the campers (especially the single axle16 footers), they are still making some pretty good trailers.
Gregg

[pjcd]

I was looking at the 16 foot models, my wife didn't like the fact that the bathroom didn't have a sink, I rarely use the bathroom, (unless the campground bathrooms are a horror). I posted some of the issues with mine, really stuff that should never have made it out of the factory, this is my third full size trailer and it is by far the best one as far as construction is concerned. The appliances are pretty standard industry wide and I never had any issues with them in any of the trailers I owned.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]The next cost cutting deletion?

In thinking about what Thor might delete next I thought about the slide awning or slide topper as they call it. Many competitive, and even some high end, campers do not provide them and their absence might not immediately be noticed by new or prospective owners. Not the end of the world, they can be added later, but they sure are nice and handy. Keep an eye out.[/font]

[leslie]

I want to weigh in on the changes for Camplites. People talk to us all the time about what a pretty trailer we have, and how it matches our Jeep Grand Cherokee, which is our tow vehicle.

We no longer invite people inside to look at the trailer, because they will not be able to get what I have (custom Camplite 21-BHS). One lady (in a Class  A) invited herself into the trailer a few days ago to have a closer look, telling me she enjoyed camping more when she and her husband had a smaller trailer. She liked our Camplite, but I told her that LL was no longer making them like this.

We are going to the Oregon rally. The president of LL is supposed to attend, as well. The best marketing tool for LL is its current happy customers. I hope that we can have a good dialogue.

BTW, we love our Camplite, with all of the custom changes we made to it. This is perfect for us. It is not too small, and not too large - JUST RIGHT!

We are not tinkering with it. We have taken a trip every month since my husband retired in April, and now we are wandering around Central Florida until mid-March. We have things we need to do, such as put up more Command hooks, but we are having so much fun exploring and socializing with other RVers, we have not made the time!

[charliem]

......... and it would have been nice of them to NOT wire the WH and Microwave on the same circuit breaker (each are supposed to have their own).........

Gregg

[font size="3"]Something doesn't compute, Gregg. The WH element is 1440 watts and the micro is 1500 watts. If both are running at the same time that exceeds 24A and should trip a 15A breaker. Does this also mean you have an empty breaker slot?[/font]

[gbpack]

[quote source="/post/17696/thread" timestamp="1452631078" author="@gbpack"]......... and it would have been nice of them to NOT wire the WH and Microwave on the same circuit breaker (each are supposed to have their own).........

Gregg

[font size="3"]Something doesn't compute, Gregg. The WH element is 1440 watts and the micro is 1500 watts. If both are running at the same time that exceeds 24A and should trip a 15A breaker. Does this also mean you have an empty breaker slot?[/font]
[/quote]


Charlie - yes, we have been tripping the 15 amp circuit breaker that they are both wired to every time we run the microwave when the electric water heater happens to be heating. I have proven that both are wired to the same 15 amp circuit through tests that I have done while watching the Amps being pulled on the power surge monitor.  There are breakers in every slot, but I believe that we have a circuit breaker that doesn't have anything hooked up to it. Will take it into the dealer when we get back from this trip. In the meantime, we will have to avoid running the microwave when the WH is drawing power.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Ah so. That computes. That also took real creativity at the assembly station. But all will be corrected when you get home and properly install the inside switch. BTW, when I am running a 1500W ceramic heater and want to hit the micro I use the red switch to temporarily disable the WH. Try it, you'll like it         
[/font]

[pinstriper]

I have nothing to add here except to say that I don't have the 2-way WH, have only used propane to heat water. We camped 20+ times over 2 seasons and have yet to exhaust the first of 2 full cans of propane provided by the dealer at the time of purchase !!

We've used the propane furnace, I think, twice for an aggregate 30 minutes time, and I vaguely remember using it to heat a can of soup that first weekend on the stove - I suppose I should check to see if the stove still works. One of these days.

In summation, "nyah nyah nyah !!!!"

[furpod]

[quote timestamp="1452653563" source="/post/17711/thread" author="@pinstriper"]I have nothing to add here except to say that I don't have the 2-way WH, have only used propane to heat water. We camped 20+ times over 2 seasons and have yet to exhaust the first of 2 full cans of propane provided by the dealer at the time of purchase !!

We've used the propane furnace, I think, twice for an aggregate 30 minutes time, and I vaguely remember using it to heat a can of soup that first weekend on the stove - I suppose I should check to see if the stove still works. One of these days.

In summation, "nyah nyah nyah !!!!"
[/quote]Interesting.. the specs since I have been looking at them have always shown a 2-way WH, at least I think they did. Was yours special ordered?