Hopeful New Owner

[pinstriper]

No, I really meant what I said. It was a sequence. Lt me be pedantic for a moment.

The less they help, the more trouble you are likely to have with your special order. The more trouble you have, the more frustrated you get with the special order. They capitalize on that trouble, plus work on your FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt) about a large purchase and in particular about not being able to see it first. A special order does take a leap of faith.

And the last thing they want is for your special order to show up, right or wrong, and have you want to back out of the deal. Now, instead of moving current inventory and reclaiming their working capital, they've added to it. They don't have any money tied up in the special order, but they still have to move the unit. Even a consignment is a drag on them cycling through their inventory.

So when you are getting frustrated they swoop in playing the hero and bring you back to what they already have on hand, make you a "special deal".

And let's face it. You can buy 2 to 2.5 conventional trailers for the cost of these. It won't last several decades, but it's a valid choice to spend $10k on a new trailer every 10 years than plunk down $25k and hope it lasts for 30. And more people can come up with 10 grand, particularly for their first RV.

But we're happy with the choice, and frequently remind ourselves that we spent a lot less than on an Airstream !

[peislander]

Pinstriper said: "The less they help, the more trouble you are likely to have with your special order"

Okay I can see your point. I think we are essentially saying similar things. I wasn't trying to imply they would help. The salesperson likely wants to discourage custom orders anyway they can. It is not in their interest to facilitate a custom order because the more they help, the more they have to to lose. They'd generally far prefer to just steer you to inventory - take it or leave it - and the same easy relationship they have with most of their customers. From their perspective, the risks in the custom order just isn't worth the time. They also must suffer frustration when the picky buyer wanting custom features isn't willing to follow through. 

[pinstriper]

Yes, we agree on the message, just not the phrasing. I was clarifying for...eh....posterity. Not because I'm...never mind.

[tag9147]

Totally agree with you on the impulse buy. It happened to us on our second purchase and we are really trying to avoid it this time around.

We are looking for something that is going to hold up to the wear and tear from the dogs. Not that they do anything on purpose they are just big and sometimes knock stuff over or jump on it. One of the main reasons we started looking at LL last year is because we knew it had to hold up over time.

We have had quite a few issues with our current one, built cheaply comes it mind was and it was far from it in the price category.

Ordering something from the factory is brand new to us. We not sure what we really need vs. something that is just nice to have.

The dealer we are working with so far seems to be pretty helpful. They actually called us back and gave us an update. There just doesn't seem to be any info on the Ignite on the LL website. There is one PDF that mentions it but you have to dig to find it. 

[david]

Well let me describe our experience with buying a LL last year through D&H RV who BTW is excellent.

I first focused on a 21RBS. It had a walk around queen bed and we could get it with a sofa rather than a dinette (did I say I hate dinettes). But the dealer didn't have one on the lot so we started specing out a factory order. Dave at LL was quite accommodating and even told us not to order the spray insulation (does anyone like this stuff?).

So we got a quote from Dave and it all looked good so we scheduled a visit- we are 200 miles away. When we got there we looked at a similar 21 but without the sofa. But Dave suggested we look at a 16TBS as we had had a lot of conversation about our TV being marginal. He had one but at that time LL only offered it with a dinette. But Dave said no problem, he could swap the sofa for a dinette from another trailer and we would have what we wanted.

We liked the 16TBS with a dealer swapped sofa (the factory is now offering them I think) so we bought it. It has worked out fine for us.

The point is that we and the dealer were going down a path of factory order, we saw another trailer that served our needs better (lighter) and the dealer worked to give us what we wanted.

Now D&H RV sells a lot of LLs. Their inventory doesn't stick around long. So as far as I could see it didn't matter to them whether it was a factory order or off of their lot. They were going to sell the one in inventory soon anyway.

So although I suspect that some dealers particularly those without much inventory who don't sell a lot of LLs may act as discussed above. If you can find exactly what you want at one of those dealers then ok, you may end up getting a bargain because they want to move it.

But the moral of this long story is try find a dealer that sells a lot of LLs. You will probably be happier.

David

[charliem]

Dave at LL was quite accommodating and even told us not to order the spray insulation (does anyone like this stuff?).

[font size="3"]TinkeringTechie and I are the only ones I know of that ordered the spray. Both are disappointed. I didn't expect significant insulation, but I was hoping for air seal. Didn't happen. Interesting that LL now recommends against it, though they still list it as optional. Now, if I had my Chevy 427 mounted between the axles it might help, but............[/font]

[whoofit]

[p]Some of the dealers I've heard described in this thread should be avoided at all costs. I will not give one nickel to those that approach me or mine in that fashion. You need to put them in their place from the get-go or run fast and far from them.

I usually start out by speaking of an imaginary dealer that tried to pull some crap Kung-Fu on us.[/p][p]
[/p][p]With regard to Camp Lite pricing I've been told by a tamed dealer that they, Livin Lite, expects the dealers to work at a slimmer margin than other brands. This stuck with me but I do not have the credentials with Livin Lite to verify this. For this reason alone the dealer sold me the last Livin Lite product they will ever sell as they will no longer carry the brand and favor Jayco now because of it.[/p]

[swbc150]

 

I came across this pricing issue with a closer Livin Lite Dealer but still 400 miles away. His prices were way higher than what I ended up paying but I had to drive 1450 miles 1-way for that way lower price.
The closer Dealer said he could order the BC I wanted, I priced it out with the dealer but his price I felt was way over inflated. I told him I could get the exact 2015 BC at a different out-of-state Dealer at a way lower price than this ordered unit, his response was " Then buy it from them " - so I did.

[tag9147]

The dealer we are working with, does sell LL just not the Toy Haulers. They had 3 CL's on the lot and a bunch of the pop ups, but neither are going to work for us.


So they already have contacts with LL and know the general product.

[whoofit]

It would be worth it to me to hire a towing company if I couldn't make the trip to the distant dealer myself. This just to be sure I got what I want from who deserved the business. Doesn't sound like these two dealers are deserve your business to begin with. Buying local isn't all it's cracked-up to be sometimes.

It's far too long between the times where I get to be the customer to be subjected to this stuff. There are no active LL dealers left in New England anymore though there are some listed on the LL site. Only one guy in NH that will order them after a hefty deposit is made on a one by one basis.

I think you will be satisfied with the LL product unseen if you can stomach the logistics in your area. We bought ours after never having laid eyes on anything LL. Only $1k to hold it for a day till we could make the 300mi journey to view it. That would have been non-refundable. The smart dealer would do the same. 50% down cash that you would lose if you backed out or something.

[dh50]

[quote source="/post/10171/thread" timestamp="1430416706" author="@tag9147"]Hi Everyone, 

My husband and I are working on possibly getting one of the shiny new Ignite Toy Haulers. We have a local dealer right around the corner from us that stocks the 5th Wheels and QuickSilvers. The plan is to order through them as the next closet dealer is more than an hour away. 

Has anyone ordered sight-unseen, especially with such a new model? We have been talking to LL directly and the wait time is around 12 weeks.

Very unsure on what options to get as some don't even come with a microwave. Hoping for the patio rails and second AC as this will be used for dogs in the toy hauler section along with factory gen-prep. For some reason hubby wants the oven combo, as if we would be cooking in it in July, but it seems to be cheaper than the convection/microwave combo.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. We are not new to campers/trailers in general we have had a another brand for some time, but have never towed. 

Thanks to the members who posted the pictures from the Tampa show of the Ignite. We had pretty much already settled on a LL and this one has stole our hearts. 

Trish[/quote]Hi, Trish.  You have good taste!  We were impressed with the 'Ignite' and did check it out pretty well when at the Tampa RV Show this past Spring '15.  We were told by on-site LL Rep that the Ignite is an Axxess with wood. (Is that a groan, I hear?) The Rep explained that folks were asking for a 'warmer' feel than aluminum provides, and so the Ignite was born.  Truth is, with very minor changes, LL did succeed in warming up the interior substantially.  But it's really just a facade that a handy DIY type could do and save big bucks.  Major interior difference between the Axxess and the Ignite are the cabinets which remain aluminum, but with wood cabinetry overlay; a DIY project if it's that important.  The floor is the same aluminum but with an area rug at the back end where the dogs would go.  The same 'wood-look' roll-out flooring that many Camplite's have standard was found in the Ignite's living/kitchen/bathroom areas.  Some on this forum have expressed that they would actually prefer the aluminum with throw rugs for ease of cleaning, especially for those who deal with dog dirt/dander.  The Ignite had very impressive, eye-catching undercounter lighting in the kitchen.  Wow, nice touch!  Upon further investigation, this upgrade amounted to maybe a $50 roll of LED lights.  Again, an easy DIY!  

The exterior seems to be where the biggest differences lie.  You mention 'shiny' which is puzzling, because while the Ignite was colorful and 'flashy', I would not consider what we saw to be 'shiny', per se.  'Shiny' or a polished mirror finish is what Axxess and Polaris toy haulers can come in (and also what we have).

Code Select Expand

http://www.livinlite.com/axxess8_5x26-overview.php[br]
We have asked and still go without an answer as to what the exterior was on this particular Ignite at the Tampa RV Show.  The side walls were one-piece like the side walls found on most RVs today....fiberglass or some such composite or laminate?  There were no 'panels', or seams, as with all LLs we've ever seen, whether camper or hauler.  Also, the Ignite's dark windows were not set 'in' like ours, but rather, set 'on' the side wall which seems to be a treatment common in newer RVs today.  The Ignite's side wall decor was white background with a lime-green, checkered-flag fade motif for motor sports enthusiasts.  Since we haul dogs/crates too, we don't have a particular affinity to the checkered-flag look that dominates the east-central Florida region.  One modification that the Ignite did have allowed the cargo door conversion to a patio deck.  You will want to make sure to have this included.  BTW, LL told us it would cost 'thousands' to retro-fit our Axx for patio deck use.  In the end, we accomplished it for under $100. 

We can't speak to an interior wall, other than we would never break up the spacious feel with a room divider.  We have seen many serious 'haulers' who have done this to keep the fumes and odors associated with 'toys' away from the living area.  That is understandable.  We enjoy the space that can be used in different ways, the least of which is getting our dogs the heck out of our way and into their crates so we can enjoy the beds or furniture without them!  Sometimes, I declare ....I'm gonna get rid of 'em!  But then....  

Would you do us a favor?  If you ever learn what the Ignite's exterior is, would you share it with us?  Don't know where you are, and while you may have to drive a ways, you could probably snag a '15 Axxess/Polaris/VRV for a pretty good price right now and then 'bling' it up yourself even better than the Ignite and for a whole lot less $$ and dealer/factory hassle.  Hope this helps and that you enjoy the journey to finding the best RV for you...and your hairy guys.  

[thudd3r]

also remember that after a unit sits on a lot for a little while, the dealer has to start making interest payments on it (they usually purchase under a floor plan in which the inventory is financed, very few pay wholesale to the manufacturer even if they get a wholesale price for doing so)...so they are losing money.  even though they make a profit on ordering the custom unit for you, they can avoid lost money in interest payments and make a profit if they can sell you something off the lot, so it is win/win for them

this is one reason the start offering such good deals when they have had a unit on the lot for a year.

[pinstriper]

[quote timestamp="1430883221" source="/post/10401/thread" author="@thudd3r"]also remember that after a unit sits on a lot for a little while, the dealer has to start making interest payments on it (they usually purchase under a floor plan in which the inventory is financed, very few pay wholesale to the manufacturer even if they get a wholesale price for doing so)...so they are losing money.  even though they make a profit on ordering the custom unit for you, they can avoid lost money in interest payments and make a profit if they can sell you something off the lot, so it is win/win for them

this is one reason the start offering such good deals when they have had a unit on the lot for a year.[/quote][p]Borrowed money always has a cost, even on the first day. That cost might be the lost opportunity of what else you could have done with it.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Also, some localities have an "inventory tax" where the business pays based on the value of their inventory at the end of a month/quarter/year. So anything that puts more inventory on their lot for more days would be costing them real dollars.[/p][p]
[/p]

[tag9147]

Thanks so much for the nice post GW. We have had a really busy week and dealer hasn't gotten back to us but no time to push for any updates either. Will be in a holding pattern until next week. The thought about getting a LL off a lot has crossed our minds just not sure yet.  

We are stuck using a dealer because we have to do a trade in.

We are located outside of Buffalo, New York for those who are wondering.

[tag9147]

Sorry forgot to add, used the term shiny just to relate to brand new out of the factory type of term.


Not that the unit was actually shiny.