Wanting to buy a LL but not sure which one

[admin]

There are a wide range of options available. If you could give a bit more details such as a list of priorities and features you are looking for I'm sure this community will be most helpful. What type of camping do you see yourself doing the most, such as mostly camp grounds? How long are you normal trips? Do you want/need certain features?

I personally to a QuickSilver 10.0 behind a Honda Pilot 4x4 and the Pilot doesnt even break a sweat. My QS is rather basic because we dont currently need many home like features when camping. It also provides plenty of room for us considering each end is basically a queen sized bed, plus the dinette converts to sleep at least 1 more person. I dont recall off the top of my head what its advertised to sleep, but I could see it easily sleeping 4 adults and 2 kids.

Thank you,
Sean

[pinstriper]

[quote source="/post/1372/thread" timestamp="1402120008" author="Canadian lightweight camper"][div][/div]We have a Honda Pilot touring 4wd.  We are a family of 5....kids aged 3,5,8.  Would like a camp trailer but don't want a truck. Max GVWR is 6096 lbs.  Researching this it seems the livinlite 16 is an option.  Looking at this site it seems you are all really informed so perhaps you could proved some advice?[/quote][p]GVWR isn't what you're looking for. I don't think any Pilot has a tow rating over 3500#. The LL's dry weight depending on model (DB, DBS, BHB, TBS) anywhere from 2700 to 3100. That's without options. Figure 300-400# above that, DRY. Figure another 300+ once you put things like food, clothing, dishes, etc. It adds up very quickly.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Our 14 DBS specs out dry at 2650. Delivered with options (add things like the battery, microwave, tv, etc. and it came off the lot at 2980 per the sticker. With nearly empty tanks we hit the scales at 3600#.[/p][p]
[/p][p] I think you'd find you are almost at limit dry. My recommendation is, I wouldn't do it. Not on a bet. A Pilot [strike]can't[/strike] should not pull a 14 or a 16, much less a 21.[/p][p]
[/p][p]You should be able to do very well with a tent trailer like the QS 10.0, however.[/p][p]
[/p]

[charliem]

[quote source="/post/1372/thread" timestamp="1402120008" author="Canadian lightweight camper"][div][/div][div][/div][div][/div][div][/div]We have a Honda Pilot touring 4wd.  We are a family of 5....kids aged 3,5,8.  Would like a camp trailer but don't want a truck. Max GVWR is 6096 lbs.  Researching this it seems the livinlite 16 is an option.  Looking at this site it seems you are all really informed so perhaps you could proved some advice?[/quote][font face="arial" size="3"]Please take this in the spirit I intend it. Towing [/font][font face="arial" size="3"]something as heavy as a Camplite with a Pilot is not a good idea. The 4WD Pilots are rated at #4500 with only the driver and some gas on board. Any additional luggage and passengers subtract from that. The trailer weight plus ANY added options like microwave, full propane tanks(s), batteries, water, food, clothes, etc. add up quickly. A rule of thumb is to add #1000 to the dry weight of the camper and you might be close. As you see you very quickly exceed the #4500 rating. The Pilot, with its Unibody construction, does not have the frame strength, braking capacity, or drive train capability for such large loads. Add any altitude above sea level and road grades and you're out of engine too.

My previous rig was a 2010 4WD Pilot towing a #2200 dry RPOD 172. I carefully selected the trailer to stay within the weight restrictions and I was maxed out at 9000 feet ASL (Colorado mountains). The Pilot felt OK, but it definitely knew the trailer was back there. That was with only two people on board; you're starting out with 3 extra small bodies.

As has been stated by Pinstriper you have to consider the Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) of the Pilot/Trailr combination. As I recall it's about #9500-#9900. De-rate it 2% per thousand feet elevation. IMHO towing either 21' Camplite with the Pilot is a really bad idea. The problem with towing weight ratings is you won't know you're in trouble until you're in trouble. Drive safe.
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[charliem]

[font size="3"][font face="arial"]Canadian,

Your problem is too many people and too little Honda  . You might look at the CL 14DB with the optional fold down bunk for the 8 year old and [/font][/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"]a folding standalone table[/font][/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"]. The other two kids could sleep on the fold out couch. I like it because it has a dry bath and your wife will too. If you pack light and don't get in a hurry climbing hills it might work. You could carry two bikes on the back, but I don't know what to do with 4-5 bikes. How do you carry them now with a tent?
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[fasteddieb]

I tend to be pretty conservative with published limits

I'm a pilot and flight instructor and we are taught and teach to respect limitations.

That said, there is a fellow, Andy, active on the Airstream "AirForums" site. His business is CanAm RV in London, Ontario.

His specialty seems to be adapting "marginal" tow vehicles to tow safely.

Lots of interesting reading here: [a href="http://www.canamrv.ca/hitch-hints/"]http://www.canamrv.ca/hitch-hints/[/a]

I am not in a position to judge the safety of any particular tow vehicle/trailer combo. But Andy helped me choose the right set-up for my Ford Flex/21BHS combo. The only Ford limit I think I may be exceeding is in trailer frontal area, limited to 35 sq ft by Ford, and for that reason I limit my towing speeds to 65 mph or less.

Lots of knowledgable (and opinionated) folks over on the AirForums site as well, and while Airstream-focused, they will entertain posts/questions about other trailer setups as well.

Good luck with whatever you choose. "The Most Conservative Action" is, as I started this with, to follow manufacturers guidelines and limits.

[tinkeringtechie]

Something else to consider is that most unibody vehicles do not allow use of a weight distributing hitch. Honda does not recommend using one on the Pilot. So you'll potentially have 400+ pounds sitting behind your rear axle, reducing the weight (and traction) on the front wheels and causing it to tilt backwards. It's just not a pretty picture. So if you want to stick with the pilot, I'd say go for a 13' camplite or a QS. If that won't work, then start shopping for a larger tow vehicle (6000+ lbs rated).

I've already stated it in another thread, but keeping a hefty margin away from the limits will make towing both safer and more pleasant. With 3 kids (I have two young ones myself) I'll take all the safety I can get. If you went bungee jumping would you be comfortable if the rope was only rated for exactly your weight? 

[pinstriper]

[quote source="/post/1416/thread" timestamp="1402340391" author="@tinkeringtechie"]Something else to consider is that most unibody vehicles do not allow use of a weight distributing hitch. Honda does not recommend using one on the Pilot. So you'll potentially have 400+ pounds sitting behind your rear axle, reducing the weight (and traction) on the front wheels and causing it to tilt backwards. It's just not a pretty picture. So if you want to stick with the pilot, I'd say go for a 13' camplite or a QS. If that won't work, then start shopping for a larger tow vehicle (6000+ lbs rated).

I've already stated it in another thread, but keeping a hefty margin away from the limits will make towing both safer and more pleasant. With 3 kids (I have two young ones myself) I'll take all the safety I can get. If you went bungee jumping would you be comfortable if the rope was only rated for exactly your weight?  [/quote][p]This --^[/p][p]
[/p][p]I think in the years not so far away, the small children will be bigger, heavier, have heavier toys, etc. and you'll be looking for a bigger trailer. And if it isn't trailer weight that gets you, the old GCWR will. Even if you go with a small trailer now, you'd be well advised to have the option to go larger. That means a bigger tow vehicle. 5000#, or better if you can manage it.[/p][p]
[/p][p]You can never have too much tow vehicle. You can never have too good a sewer hose.[/p][p]
[/p]

[tinkeringtechie]

[quote source="/post/1380/thread" timestamp="1402154554" author="@charliem"]The problem with towing weight ratings is you won't know you're in trouble until you're in trouble.[/quote]This very true, and unfortunately overlooked too often. Just because someone you know towed a giant trailer with a tiny car for a few years doesn't mean that it's a good idea. If just means they lucked out and probably never had to swerve, emergency stop, or drive though a gusty storm.

[djsamuel]

Also, the shorter the wheelbase, the more unstable the tow vehicle can become; when at its weight limits.