Question: Should I add weight?

[pinstriper]

Yeah, David is spot on. My first thought was with that tongue weight, what is the trailer weight coming in at and where are you with GCVW capacity. The other thought was it could just be excessive tongue weight, which could happen easier with a single axle vs. dual. These singles are going to porpoise more, making it more important to get the load balanced juuuuuust right. If you can keep the extra tongue weight from sagging the rear end and lifting the front end up (where your steering and most of your braking is), that's about what you can hope for.

[daplumbr]

flyhead - My experience with bringing home our new (single axle) 16TBS.  I have a 4Runner Trail Edition for the TV.  I also have a Weighsafe tow hitch with integrated tongue weight scale.  My measured tongue weight at pick up (with two full propane tanks and battery) was almost 500lbs.  Knowing in advance that tongue weight might be an issue for me (max on 4Runner is 500lbs), I installed a pair of Firestone Air Coils to help stiffen the rear suspension coils before picking up the trailer - cost about $300 to get installed in Phoenix.  At pick up I inflated the Air Coils to 25 psi, adjusted the ball height so the trailer was level, and away I went.  The dealer suggested an Anderson WD/sway control device which I declined.  I did not add any extra weight to the trailer.  I towed the trailer for the next 3 days 1800 miles from SIRV to Phoenix.  I went through some hellacious near-blizzard conditions in Iowa with measured sustained head and quartering cross winds 25-30 mph with gusts to 45 mph.  The trailer got pushed around a bit in the winds, but so would any vehicle.  I did not have any issue with sway, although the gas mileage took a real hit.  Without the winds - trailer towed like a dream - did not even notice it was back there.  The ride from IL to AZ went through varying terrain (flats to mountains) and varying weather conditions without any issues.  

I just completed an 800 mile round trip to Zion Natl Park with a loaded trailer (enough for 2 people for a week - not sure what the actual GW was).  My measured tongue looked to be a bit over 550lbs.  Towed through mountains with some wind - again no issues.  We have the off-road package, so not sure what, if any effect that might have on things, but since it does make the trailer sit higher it would seem the higher center of gravity might amplify any problems with sway.  The structures guys on the board can weigh in.

FWIW - in my opinion, for my TV, I think adding the Air Coils and ensuring that the tow ball was set at the right height to level the trailer were the most important factors for ensuring a smooth ride.  I have no plans to install a WD/sway control device.  Biggest surprise for me was the hit on gas mileage due to heavy winds on the trip home.  My mpg was as low as 6.7mpg at 65mph.  Recent trip to Zion averaged about 12mpg at 60 mph.  I normally get 19-20mpg at 75mph without the trailer.

Hope this helps.  Safe travels on your way back home - make sure you plan in you gas stops if you are going an extended distance.

Good info on the help the airbags provided. Those are becoming a popular TV mod. The mpg hit is not surprising. If you were trying to sustain 65mph while going into quartering/head winds of +25 mph, you were lucky to get even 6.7 mpg. That's like pulling trailer at the equivalent of 90 mph! The 12 mpg at 60 mph is normal for towing. 

[dan]

I should caveat that my reported tongue weights are approximate - the Weighsafe gauge is difficult to read sideways on your hands and knees on icy (and alternately roasting hot) Tarmac, and I have not had an opportunity to validate the readings using a certified scale, but I think they are close enough.  The reported tongue on my 16TBS as measured on the factory, or at least what the LL factory rep told me was measured, was 444 lbs with empty propane tanks and no battery, so a measured dry of 500lbs at the dealer with the propane tanks full and the battery added seems reasonable.  


Without the Air Coils, my measured rear bumper deflection was 2.25 inches ; with the coils inflated at 25 psi it was 1.25 inches.  We keep the back end of the TV mostly empty, just me and the wife and the snacks in the car, so with the Air Coils I'm not overly concerned about the 550lb tongue weight as I  don't think the TV is overloaded and the TV attitude is not compromised - would not want to go any higher, though.  When we load up we put as much of the heavy stuff over the axle and in the rear as possible - even toyed with adding water to the black tank but that hasn't been necessary yet.  


I'll post again when I get around to making my way down to the certified scales.

[pinstriper]

This is not a "get off my lawn" rant.

But I have to say I am not a fan of folks driving trailers at 65+ mph. That's plenty fast for a rig without a trailer, but when you have a trailer everything happens REAL FAST at 65. And on a downgrade, 65 can creep up to a positively unsafe 70 or more. With a trailer and 13" wheels and questionable balance points all affecting stability...all I gotta say is "oy".

I don't try to maintain 65. I try to maintain between 55 and 60, and 65 is my "red line".

I am also particularly unsympathetic to complaints about fuel economy at those speeds.

[nmken]

We have an early 2015 16TBS - 240 lb dry tongue weight/3050 base weight.  I pulled it from Indiana to New Mexico and had an accident with it.  We had the propane tanks and a 60 lb generator inside was the only weight, so massively light on the tongue.  I was pulling with a 2004 4runner - it did fine hauling at 60.  The accident happened after cresting a hill and heading down - the speed crept up to 65 and the oscillation was fast and violent - bounced the trailer off the side of a semi next to us.  We added the anderson wdh and got the tongue weight up to 450 (3900 lbs total weight) and still had oscillation issues starting around 62-63.  I do think the design of the trailer has some impact on us as did the narrow/short wheelbase of the 4runner - bad combo - but we love the trailer so swapped the 4runner for a Sequoia - happy ending.

I would definitely recommend ensuring you have adequate weight in the front - the water tank as mentioned is in front of the axle and will contribute greatly (300 lbs total if full, count on 75 lb on the hitch), the anderson wdh is a must imo for the gx460 (a souped up 4runner....).  Had I kept the 4runner I would have added rear air bags but am convinced the relative physics of the two arent a good match.  I'm sure others will disagree and blame me - so be it.  And to the previous comment - keep it below 60 - consider 63 red-line.



my original post on the topic
http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/617/don-mike-livinlite 

[flyhead]

Dear members:  Made it home today in good shape.  First time I've towed anything since owning an Apache PopUp back in the late 70's.  I did add a couple on tubes of sand in the mini isle between the twin beds in the TBS, seemed to help, thanx for the suggestions.  I want to give a shout out to my dealer, John Gerton in Mt Vernon, IN.  The Andersen hitch had a 2-5/16" ball instead of the 2" he had ordered.  He had Andersen overnite the 2" from ID to IN.  In a pouring rain he finished the install and I was on the road before 10:00 AM.  Merlin, he did have to add a couple of links to the Andersen unit as you had forwarned.

I had to push it to get home in time to watch the NCAA's.  I averaged 63 mph facing 25 mph head winds crossing the Mississippi and the Missouri rivers on I-70.  The hard part was backing up for the first time in years.

Hope it is proper etiquette to give my dealer a plug, if so, check out Gerton Auto Sales in Mt Vernon, IN