Let there be power!

[fasteddieb]

Most of you know we made a nice little platform for our 21BHS down by our creek and frog pond - you know, the one that got washed out and made larger recently. Next thing we're budgeting for is to have it paved.

In any case, we had power down there supplied by three 50' extension cords from our hot tub. That sufficed for everything but the air conditioning - we were warned that voltage drop over that length and running from a 15A outlet could harm the air conditioner compressor.

Anyway, a few weeks ago we needed some driveway/slab repair anyway, and had about 220' of conduit laid down from the house to the platform. Friday I got some help and we bought 240' of 3 conductor plus ground 2ga aluminum wire and pulled it through the conduit. Ran it from an existing breakout box at the house already serving an irrigation pump and our hot tub. 

In any case, this is what we cobbled together from a trip to Home Depot:



In any case, we now have room for another trailer if anyone needs to overnight in our area - just give us a head's up if you're on the way.

[mitch]

Very Nice!, I'll be right down as soon as the weather gets cold up here.

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Looks really nice, Eddie. Your #2 wire should drop about 3.6 volts (2x240 ft) at 30A. Twice for 60A, but how often will that ever happen? Looks like a winner. Now all you need is a dump station (the creek?   ), a burger stand, and a spotlighted wind sock. Camp on!
[/font]

[leslie]

Before Eddie and Karen get the dump station, they need to get water to their site. What comes after that? They could be on their way to a small campground!

[fasteddieb]

[quote source="/post/14481/thread" timestamp="1440364988" author="@leslie"]Before Eddie and Karen get the dump station, they need to get water to their site.[/quote]Ummm...

Look to the right in the first photo!

That was already there - at one point that area was going to be a third garden.

[leslie]

Ah, you are right! I will call soon to make my reservation!

[fasteddieb]

On another forum I was discussing another sub-panel that a handyman had wired wrong.

In that conversation the point was made that the only place ground and neutral should be bonded is at the main panel - all sub-panels should keep them separate. It was admitted that historically not everyone has done it that way, but that modern codes require it.

This was "before" with all the neutrals and grounds sharing the same buss:




It was also pointed out that sub-panels that are remote from the main structure need their own 8' ground rod. That's my next project.

[tinkeringtechie]

I was reading your post and kept saying "grounding rod" to myself until I saw your last line. Having the neutral bonded to ground at your subpanel wouldn't bother me if there was a separate grounding rod right next to the panel. The intention is that all ground wires are connected as closely as possible to the actual ground. Having them bonded at the subpanel without a grounding rod makes your ground distance the same as the neutral distance, so it's possible that with a short it could reach dangerous voltage (even energizing grounded enclosures). Grounding it right at the panel makes it much safer. I'm no electrician though, so I'm just basing it off of intuition rather than electrical code.

[fasteddieb]

This was the explanation I got on a pilot's forum:

"Neutral and ground are bonded at the main load center and ONLY at the main load center, and no where else. (with a tie to the earth ground somewhere near at that point.)

Neutral is the current carrying wire. Ground is the safety wire and should NOT carry current. With any wire, if you run current across it, there will be a voltage difference between the ends of the wire. So, under load, the neutral wire will see a "lift" in the voltage (it will be slightly above "zero volts").

On most devices, the chassis is connected to the ground pin. If you've connected ground anywhere downstream of the main load center, the ground wire will see the same "lift" that is on the neutral wire, and that results in an energized equipment chassis. Enough volts on the chassis and you'll get zapped."

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Eddie,

Your info from the pilots is all correct. I'm glad you are correcting the situation.
[/font]

[fasteddieb]

Next post will be an interesting exploit for the tinkerers out there.

But for now...

I have gotten into the habit of checking outlets at campsites for proper output - 120v between ground and hot, between ground and neutral and 0v between ground and neutral.

Last week at Big Ridge campground, north of Knoxville, the outlet was properly wired, but my free Harbor Freight voltmeter showed 131.x volts. I figured it was probably OK and plugged in and everything worked without issue.

Question: How much voltage is too much?

[fasteddieb]

What began the other online discussion was a breaker panel in my garage, where I wanted to add another 20A breaker to feed a GFCI outlet on a pedestal about 40' from the house.

Probably just for the resident "tinkerers":


The gist of it...

Initial post:

I had my garage built about 7 years ago by a contractor/handyman/good ol' boy, who also wired it.

In any case, all the outlets and lights and garage door openers have worked fine.

But recently I wanted to add a breaker for an outdoor outlet and I'm a bit stumped.

This is how the panel is wired:


[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm1.staticflickr.com/580/20927727540_d622741b96_c.jpg"]

Looks like he brought just one hot (black wire), one neutral (white wire) and a ground from our main panel via the upper left side punchout. Wired the hot to the 50A breaker screw at A. This is powering Bus D through the breaker. So the two 20A breakers work to supply everything via Bus D.

But the empty slots powered by Bus B provide nothing, having been hooked up to the neutral via terminal A.

Looks like he did it this way to provide a master breaker/cutoff.

Seems like the neutral should have gone to F for the neutrals and grounds, the hot to B and jumped to E (barely visible on the right) where a second hot wire would normally go. That would provide current to both busses, D & C. But with no master breaker.

Any thoughts? Is what's shown in the photo a common way to wire a breaker panel or just jury-rigged and wrong?

Thanks. I understand a bit about electricity and wiring but have not done very much with home wiring before.


In any case, the discussion pointed out that the large white neutral wire was dead-ending at the upper buss. That meant that the only "return" for the panel was what looks like an unshielded 10GA ground wire!

Anyway I relocated the neutral to where it belonged, added a ground buss and jumped the two main buss lugs together. Now both busses are now back-fed through the right side of the 50A dual breaker, which I could and probably should replace with a single pole 50:


[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5775/21062760769_135f8a6b79_c.jpg"]

Someone else mentioned if the installer could be such a doofus on the breaker panel wiring, to go ahead and check the outlets for proper wiring. Good suggestion, since 10 out of 10 outlets in the garage were wired thusly:


[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://farm1.staticflickr.com/754/20522143524_12e9bab5b0_z.jpg"]

Yep - backasswards! But at least he was consistent! Fixed 8 out of 10 so far.

Anyway, certainly avoiding "idle hands"!

[charliem]

[font size="3"]Eddie,

Your "buddy" who wired your garage is a prime candidate for the Darwin award. Just don't be near him when it occurs.Wow!

The nominal single phase voltage is 120V. With a +10% tolerance that yields 132V. I'd consider that a high limit. My SurgeGuard shuts down at 132. Check your HF meter if possible. I'm always skeptical of such until verified. I don't recall ever seeing 131V.
[/font]

[fasteddieb]

Just checked my trailer -

HF digital 125v
Radio Shack digital 122.3v

So it may read a little high.