[font size="4"]How is a weld like a wife??? Just because they're ugly, doesn't mean they're no good![/font] (I made that up, ya'll! Come on, that there's funny!)
Okay, I'm 'GOING GIRLY' here, but after 'DMac's water tank strap's weld fail on his brand new LL trailer ( >:D I would be furious but would abstain from any drama....for Pstripe), I got to thinking about welds and just how well our welds are welded...(whut?) I've picked my Better Half's brain and did get an interesting mini-overview on the topic. I now plan to crawl under the trailer and check out the welds, you know...look for 'boogers', as 'Mike' calls them. I won't pick my boogers like some of you guys do (you know who you are), but will take pics of any that I find. In the end, I hope to find that LL has done a good job, or avert any problem in the making. Will apprise of findings.
BTW, sure do appreciate you sharing any points of interest on this 'GO GIRLY' topic. Afterall, you guys possess a weld of information....snot kidding!
LOL!
I'm not a welder - but I used to hang out with them in an earlier career (as a CNC & machine shop instructor). What I remember from the lunch room discussions was 'poor penetration', where the weld is sitting on top of the base metal instead of penetrating into the metal. The student welders were required to section their test welds, x-ray them, check for cracks or inclusions using ultrasound, etc.
Others on the board likely know more.
On my Camplite, I have centerline cracks in a couple of welds that I'll have to have fixed.
--Mike
[font size="3"]I, also, do not claim to be a welder. My last hands on with an ARC rig was a high school shop class, too many years ago to count. But, think about it. The ideal weld comes from the commingling of three molten pools of metal: surface one, surface two, and any added metal from rod or wire. All three pools should mix at the junction point, forming a solid section of new metal. The term "penetration" relates to the depth of melting of each surface being joined. If there is little or no melting (penetration) of one surface the material just pops off and the weld fails. This also explains why you can't weld metals of greatly differing melting points such as steel and aluminum. One metal will burn up before the second one melts. Welding is both a science and an art. That's why critical applications like ship, bridge, and pipeline welders are continually recertified and welds are inspected by X-rays, ultrasonics, dye penetrant, magnetic particle, and eddy current testing. There's a lot more to welding than a hot flame or arc.
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The biggest issue with welds on aluminum is that it is so different from welding steel. The concept is the same, but thats about it. I feel confident in my skills while welding steel but, even if I had the special equipment, I wouldn't touch aluminum. Heck, I brought my trailer into a professional shop and I still feel like it's noticeable that their "aluminum guy" was still new to it.
Building off what @charliem said, I think the hardest part about aluminum is getting the right penetration. Because the heat dissipates so quickly, and the melting properties are so different from other metals, its hard to get everything to mingle into a nice weld puddle.
[quote timestamp="1428586857" author="@admin" source="/post/9039/thread"]The biggest issue with welds on aluminum is that it is so different from welding steel. The concept is the same, but thats about it. I feel confident in my skills while welding steel but, even if I had the special equipment, I wouldn't touch aluminum.
[font color="e8331f"][font size="3"]Yep. Then you'd have to get that TIG, MIG, MAG or some other G gear and go back to school :'(
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Heck, I brought my trailer into a professional shop and I still feel like it's noticeable that their "aluminum guy" was still new to it.
[font size="3" color="e8331f"]That's a bit disconcerting!![/font]
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@Charliem, the concern for me is that the welds look ugly and I'm guessing the wire feed was turned up b/c there is a decent about of build up on top. I also cant tell if there is a heat affect area like with steel (but I haven't looked all that close).
I do know I've added a rack to the back and stood on it with no noticeable movement to the bumper. Thats with a decent amount of weight somewhere between 1-2' away from it. So I guess it will do for now :)
[font size="3"]Sean,
I'd say you're OK. Just check the welds periodically and press on. But that's one think that impresses me about LL. To my untrained eye the factory welds look beautiful.
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It's good to see someone besides me and Sean have avatars that are faithful to reality.
[quote source="/post/9080/thread" timestamp="1428633543" author="@pinstriper"]It's good to see someone besides me and Sean have avatars that are faithful to reality.[/quote]
...and some simply determine to have fun, through reality's never-ending assault on one's faithfulness.
No matter, my LL friend, since you acknowledge your avatar's likeness is founded in reality, I want to say ....you are very handsome. Seriously.
P.S. Thanks for the laugh too! This girl needed it! (It is a silly avatar, but with purpose. P-))
"How is a weld like a wife? (the good, bad and the ugly.)"
Man, where is Ron White when you need him!
I just got done cutting through 10 welds on my 16DB today. They weren't pretty but I can tell you they were definitely stuck well.
Quote from: @whoofit" timestamp="1428720791" source="/post/9149/threadI just got done cutting through 10 welds on my 16DB today. They weren't pretty but I can tell you they were definitely stuck well.
[font size="3"]Whoofit,
I was regarded with considerable skepticism when I described some of my early mods. Cutting into a perfectly good $30K trailer, etc. But cutting through 10 welds? Are you a professional weld inspector masquerading as a weekend camper, or are we in for a massive [strike]mod[/strike] rebuild of a 16DB? Please explain. I can't stand it :-S
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[quote source="/post/9149/thread" author="@whoofit" timestamp="1428720791"]I just got done cutting through 10 welds on my 16DB today. They weren't pretty but I can tell you they were definitely stuck well. [/quote]You'll probably need some extra sway control now, just sayin.
"How is a weld like a wife?"
You have to make sure that the metal is at the right temperature before applying the rod.
My avatar was realistic 40 years ago. The colors have dimmed a bit.
[quote source="/post/9157/thread" timestamp="1428758789" author="@cadman70454"]"How is a weld like a wife?"
You have to make sure that the metal is at the right temperature before applying the rod.
[/quote]Though the flame be hot, and the rod sure, failure awaits him whose metal goes unknown.
"failure awaits him whose metal goes unknown."
You are right about that. I had a metallurgy lab class that taught us how to identify metals and alloys at the metal crystal level with a microscope. Fortunately the stuff we fabricate from comes with a bar code, heat number, etc.
I've worked in metal fabrication shops since 1983 but unfortunately I'm not an expert in welding. Only applying welding symbols to my fabrication drawings. However, I agree with those who say that aluminum is more difficult than steel to weld. A good weld should be stronger than the base metal. In other words, the surrounding material should fail before the weld fails, if that is the design intent.
[quote source="/post/9152/thread" timestamp="1428750699" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/9149/thread" timestamp="1428720791" author="@whoofit"]I just got done cutting through 10 welds on my 16DB today. They weren't pretty but I can tell you they were definitely stuck well. [/quote][font size="3"]Whoofit,
I was regarded with considerable skepticism when I described some of my early mods. Cutting into a perfectly good $30K trailer, etc. But cutting through 10 welds? Are you a professional weld inspector masquerading as a weekend camper, or are we in for a massive [strike]mod[/strike] rebuild of a 16DB? Please explain. I can't stand it :-S
[/font][/quote][p]HA![/p][p]
[/p][p]No, Charlie I modified my sofa into dinette booth seats and modified the sofa pedestal into the booth for dinette seating. Couldn't take that jack knife sofa any longer. Coming out great!
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[quote source="/post/9153/thread" timestamp="1428752496" author="@mitch"][quote source="/post/9149/thread" timestamp="1428720791" author="@whoofit"]I just got done cutting through 10 welds on my 16DB today. They weren't pretty but I can tell you they were definitely stuck well. [/quote]You'll probably need some extra sway control now, just sayin.[/quote][p]LOL![/p][p]
[/p][p]Welp they told me my tongue weighed too much so I cut it off.
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How much grief did you go thru to remove the jack-knife sofa?
Quote from: @shovelhead" timestamp="1428851092" source="/post/9217/threadHow much grief did you go thru to remove the jack-knife sofa?
None, it pops right out. Four screws and done. It's satisfy chopping it up into little pieces though. Good for the soul. I don't hate much in this world but that sofa is one of those things.
Well, just did the deed. No sofa. Now I'm on a quest for a reclining loveseat.
[quote source="/post/9226/thread" author="@shovelhead" timestamp="1428873680"]Well, just did the deed. No sofa. Now I'm on a quest for a reclining loveseat.[/quote][p]I was surprised at how light it was.[/p][p]
[/p][p]The welds on the sofa were really well done. The strapping material as the springs?....lol[/p][p]
[/p][p]My knee popped one on night four. Wondered what it was until I disassembled.[/p][p]
[/p][p]You all can feel confident in the sofa welds.... :P
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[font size="4"]Update on welds: the good, bad and ugly (Part 1)[/font]
[attachment id="740" thumbnail="1"] [font size="4"] Good weld (automatic machine weld) found on underside of 36 gal. fuel station.[/font] [attachment id="742" thumbnail="1"]
[font size="4"]Update on welds: the good, bad and ugly (Part 2 due to 'Add Attachment' limitation)[/font]
[attachment id="743" thumbnail="1"] [font size="3"]An ugly, but good weld for an ugly, but important purpose. (Yes, I was in the 'belly of the beast'! GO GIRLY!) [/font] [attachment id="744" thumbnail="1"]
[font size="3"]Update on welds: the good, bad and ugly (Part 3 due to 'Add Attachment' limitation)
[attachment id="750" thumbnail="1"] Our hairy weiner...good? BAAAAD! [attachment id="751" thumbnail="1"]She may be ugly, but she's a keeper!
[attachment id="752" thumbnail="1"] The wussy? Well, not real ugly,not real bad. Thanks for wasting time, but letting us share from the weld-wide-web. [span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][/font]
[font size="4"]Update on welds: the good, bad and ugly (FINAL post.....FINALLY!)
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In summary, on our 2015 Livin Lite 8526 Axxess Toyhauler, we found the welds on the unit to be generally acceptable. Some are of poor appearance (ugly), however there are none that would merit a demand to the factory for repair (bad). For a commercial RV manufacturer, we continue to be pleased with the overall quality of Livin Lite workmanship.
[font size="4"] :)Update on welds: the good, bad and ugly (FINAL post.....FINALLY!)
[/font]
In summary, on our 2015 Livin Lite 8526 Axxess Toyhauler, we found the welds on the unit to be generally acceptable. Some are of poor appearance (ugly), however there are none that would merit a demand to the factory for repair (bad). For a commercial RV manufacturer, we continue to be pleased with the overall quality of Livin Lite workmanship.