Just put a down payment, still time to back out - but should I? Appreciate all advice. Are these Livinlites worth the premium price? Will be towing with a 2014 Ram 1500 Ecodiesel. Don't have an EQ hitch - what is the best choice?
Thanks,
GW Bushhog - Central FL
[font size="3"]I don't want to stop you. I want to cheer you on, welcome you to our group, and await reports of your adventures. I think you'll find the LL product well worth the cost.
You will want the WDH hitch. I'm biased toward the Equalizer. I'd suggest the full Equalizer vs the E2 for your weight, but there are others available. Read the posts here and on other forums to help you make a decision. Set it up carefully and you'll find it really makes a difference in comfort and ride. Also learn how to load and secure your toys for your safety and comfort.
Welcome to our LL forum. Good times are ahead.
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[font size="3"]It's understandable to hesitate over the price of these trailers. They ARE expensive! We would not have paid the 33K that a new one, in the model we wanted, would cost. So we're really glad we found a slightly used one.
The reviews of other brands of trailers is mostly a list of nightmares. Not so with the Camplites. What you see is what you get. I really like the simplicity .... knowing that nothing bad is happening in the walls, floor, or ceiling (rot or rust) that we can't see. You get what you pay for .... it's as simple as that.
We just spent our 9th night in ours, and I can't wait for the 10th. Everything works as it should. It could not be more comfortable and we could not be happier with our trailer. [/font]
[font size="3"]Best of luck to you![/font]
Cheaper than an Airstream.
[quote source="/post/5728/thread" timestamp="1420002272" author="@pinstriper"]Cheaper than an Airstream.[/quote]Do you know if LL quality is suppose to be comparable to an A'stream? Despite the exhorbitant cost, we've heard questionable things about A'streams...especially about what is being produced today. Heard anything?
[quote source="/post/5727/thread" timestamp="1420001874" author="@brenda"][font size="3"]It's understandable to hesitate over the price of these trailers. They ARE expensive! We would not have paid the 33K that a new one, in the model we wanted, would cost. So we're really glad we found a slightly used one.
The reviews of other brands of trailers is mostly a list of nightmares. Not so with the Camplites. What you see is what you get. I really like the simplicity .... knowing that nothing bad is happening in the walls, floor, or ceiling (rot or rust) that we can't see. You get what you pay for .... it's as simple as that.
We just spent our 9th night in ours, and I can't wait for the 10th. Everything works as it should. It could not be more comfortable and we could not be happier with our trailer. [/font]
[font size="3"]Best of luck to you![/font]
[/quote]Thank you! Glad to hear this. What did purchase?
Good choice! Prior to my 2015 Livinlite Camplite 13QBB I had a 2009 Palomino tent trailer I had bought used, what a nightmare, the roof was roting and it was full of ants a real battle to get rid of them. Not sure where they were hiding but it was scary I knew there was quite some ants in it because I was always finding some so I put a solution with sugar and borax and went to sleep in the bed next to it when I woke up there was literally few 100s walking to eat the stuff and going back to the nest (I think it was between walls or something). No problem since I have my Camplite :) I don't think ants would do a nest between aluminum walls :)
"Are these Livinlites worth the premium price?"
Well, maybe. In very round pricing numbers an Airstream is 100%, a LL is 50% and a generic travel trailer is 33%
With an Airstream you get a sculpted look, inside and out. Everything is designed to look good. Airstreams are not particularly light. Whether the current quality is up to its past standards is an open question.
A LL is designed to be simple and robust with quality materials but no frills. The interior looks a bit industrial with the aluminum angle frames around each cabinet piece. Also installation of components is more utilitarian than an Airstream.
A generic trailer can look good, but is usually tacked together with cheap materials.
So if you can live with the utilitarian/industrial look of a LL I think it is a good value. It is also one of the lightest trailers made. I couldn't have bought any other model of the same size and be happy towing with our Pathfinder.
David
[font size="3"]I think David sums it up very well - Airstream vs LL vs Generic Junk. From a practical point I'd add one thing. Everything in the LL is accessible for inspection, repair, and modification. No hidden wires/pipes and no mystery wall construction. For us DIY tinkerers it's great. And of course, knowing that the walls/ceiling/floor are not rotting away behind some fake trim is priceless. As the saying goes "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price fades away".
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[quote source="/post/5729/thread" timestamp="1420003839" author="@gwbushhog"][quote source="/post/5728/thread" timestamp="1420002272" author="@pinstriper"]Cheaper than an Airstream.[/quote]Do you know if LL quality is suppose to be comparable to an A'stream? Despite the exhorbitant cost, we've heard questionable things about A'streams...especially about what is being produced today. Heard anything?
[/quote]Airstream & LivinLite are both owned by Thor. Airstream TTs built in America still have plywood sub floors and as you probably know LL has aluminum plank flooring. The reason we purchased CampLite, our previous camper (Chalet A Frame) developed wood floor rot. We will probably purchase a larger camper at the end of 2015 and it will most likely be a CL 21BHS. Will probably keep our 2010 CL 11, too.
[quote source="/post/5737/thread" timestamp="1420039835" author="@exploringcarolina"][quote source="/post/5729/thread" timestamp="1420003839" author="@gwbushhog"]Do you know if LL quality is suppose to be comparable to an A'stream? Despite the exhorbitant cost, we've heard questionable things about A'streams...especially about what is being produced today. Heard anything?
[/quote]Airstream & LivinLite are both owned by Thor. Airstream TTs built in America still have plywood sub floors and as you probably know LL has aluminum plank flooring. The reason we purchased CampLite, our previous camper (Chalet A Frame) developed wood floor rot. We will probably purchase a larger camper at the end of 2015 and it will most likely be a CL 21BHS. Will probably keep our 2010 CL 11, too.
[/quote][p]Ha ha ! You've got Leslie beat on the His 'n Hers RV's ![/p][p]
[/p]
All of us were at that point somewhere along the line and we all jumped in. Turned out to be well worth it! Plus, with a Livin Lite, you get this great forum! I belong to other forums for various interests and this one is the best for ideas, support, and civility. I think that genuinely adds value.
[quote timestamp="1420042536" author="@pinstriper" source="/post/5739/thread"][quote source="/post/5737/thread" timestamp="1420039835" author="@exploringcarolina"]Airstream & LivinLite are both owned by Thor. Airstream TTs built in America still have plywood sub floors and as you probably know LL has aluminum plank flooring. The reason we purchased CampLite, our previous camper (Chalet A Frame) developed wood floor rot. We will probably purchase a larger camper at the end of 2015 and it will most likely be a CL 21BHS. Will probably keep our 2010 CL 11, too.
[/quote][p]Ha ha ! You've got Leslie beat on the His 'n Hers RV's ![/p][p]
[/p][/quote]Guess who gets the small CL!
[quote source="/post/5730/thread" timestamp="1420003946" author="@gwbushhog"]Thank you! Glad to hear this. What did purchase?
[/quote]We have a 21RBS. We shopped for months and saw a lot of junk. It always came down to paying for quality. One older salesman who had been in the business for many years, said to consider all that goes into an RV. You can't get quality in something like that, for 15K. Read the reviews. We were fortunate to find a used 2014 model, which saved us over 10K, although we had to drive over 3000 miles to go get it. RVtrader.com is a good source.
One of the things that sold us was the fact that the all-aluminum frame was so light. We can comfortably tow it with a mid-sized SUV. We didn't want to buy a pickup, nor did we want a Suburban. Whatever vehicle we bought to tow our trailer, would be MY vehicle to drive, and I wanted to park in our garage. After a lot of research, we settled on a Jeep Grand Cherokee, diesel, and it pulls our Camplite beautifully. Plus it's fun to drive AND fits in the garage.... the car, not the trailer. It probably would have pulled another brand of trailer alright, but we weren't sure. We have no worries with the weight or mass of the Camplite because it is well within the limits specified by Jeep.
[span style="font-size:10pt;"]Lastly, I don't think the interior is stark or utility-seeming. We covered the floor with those foam mats, which a 2015 model wouldn't need, along with a few rugs and bathmat, and I put in attractive, comfortable bedding and it's as cozy as can be. Our cabinets are finished in that faux cherry, which is the same as the 2015s, so you really don't see any aluminum. I don't like all that cutesy, cheesy trim and decor you see in a lot of RVs, anyway. [/span]
Quote from: @exploringcarolina" source="/post/5741/thread" timestamp="1420046186[quote source="/post/5739/thread" timestamp="1420042536" author="@pinstriper"][p]Ha ha ! You've got Leslie beat on the His 'n Hers RV's ![/p][p]
[/p]
Guess who gets the small CL!
[/quote]
I still want a Quicksilver popup. I would be happy if I got the smaller one. I know I would use whichever one I needed. Hubby is still looking over the list of what needs to be done to our 21-BHS. I think I am going to get the beer bottle opener added to the battery box soon!
[p]GW Bushhog,[/p][p]
[/p][p]Until now, all of my TT's have been constructed with luan paneling stapled to inferior pine wall studs, a perfect recipe for water damage. Even when the exterior chalked seams did not appear to be compromised, I have found water damage. In my opinion the premium price of the all aluminum Camp Lite is well worth it. Currently, there is not any long term resale data because the product is relatively new to the market. However, my guesstimate is that the long term resale value of these units should be well above the wooden stick built units. I've heard it said that "If you go aluminum you'll never go back" [/p]
Trailers themselves are great. Some of the components within are only as good as the manufacturer who supplies them... 26' is a lot of trailer for a 1500 Eco depending on what version of the truck you have. Despite what is advertised tongue weight will be in the 1000# plus range.
[quote source="/post/5735/thread" timestamp="1420036553" author="@david"] It is also one of the lightest trailers made. I couldn't have bought any other model of the same size and be happy towing with our Pathfinder.
David[/quote]I was in the same boat with trailer weight, using a Jeep Grand Cherokee. However, LL also combined tandum with the smaller trailer (14DBS). We were dead set on the dual axel and couldn't get it with Airstream until we increased length (and weight) quite alot.
[quote source="/post/5753/thread" timestamp="1420085607" author="@spunk4"][quote source="/post/5735/thread" timestamp="1420036553" author="@david"] It is also one of the lightest trailers made. I couldn't have bought any other model of the same size and be happy towing with our Pathfinder.
David[/quote]I was in the same boat with trailer weight, using a Jeep Grand Cherokee. However, LL also combined tandum with the smaller trailer (14DBS). We were dead set on the dual axel and couldn't get it with Airstream until we increased length (and weight) quite alot.[/quote][p]This. A trailer the length and weight of a 14DBS, with the advantage of dual axles, makes for a much more stable tow.[/p][p]
[/p]
[quote source="/post/5753/thread" timestamp="1420085607" author="@spunk4"][quote source="/post/5735/thread" timestamp="1420036553" author="@david"] It is also one of the lightest trailers made. I couldn't have bought any other model of the same size and be happy towing with our Pathfinder.
David[/quote]I was in the same boat with trailer weight, using a Jeep Grand Cherokee. However, LL also combined tandum with the smaller trailer (14DBS). We were dead set on the dual axel and couldn't get it with Airstream until we increased length (and weight) quite alot.[/quote]I wanted to get the 14DBS like you too and it was in stock at my dealer but my Ford Escape is only rated at 3500 lbs towing capacity so I went on the safe side and took the 13QBB I wish I had a better TV, but I think there is a guy on this forum that have an Ford Escape and have a 14DBS.
Quote from: @tommyc" timestamp="1420075853" source="/post/5752/threadTrailers themselves are great. Some of the components within are only as good as the manufacturer who supplies them... 26' is a lot of trailer for a 1500 Eco depending on what version of the truck you have. Despite what is advertised tongue weight will be in the 1000# plus range.
??? YIKES! It's the 'wife' here....firstly, to wish a happy, most blessed new year to each and everyone of you! Secondly, to thank you each for sharing such helpful information with us. How very helpful and encouraging you have been. (rofl)
But back to my 'YIKES!' reaction after reading tommyc's post just now. Please share any additional information in this regard that you may have. [font size="4" color="e63219"]
If our tow vehicle is not a good fit, please [font color="e63219"]help[/font] us see this...tomorrow's purchase day looms large[/font] as we ready our trade-in unit. I will point out tommyc's post to my Husband as soon as he comes back in from trying to clean up our Coleman Hybrid trade-in. My anxiety isn't helped that despite our best efforts to keep our Coleman TT washed, conditioned, and protected by an expensive cover designed for this moist climate and custom fitted for this unit, removing it today reveals mold all around, even inside the unit! Very disappointing, but does go with life in Florida[font size="2"], unfortunately.[/font]
Please stop us from this purchase, the original intent for our post! I know my Hubby has done a whole lot of research on the right WD hitch, though I'm not sure the conclusion of the matter. Tomorrow's coming at us fast!
Thank you bunches!
The 'Wife' for the 'Husband' (currently covered in bleach! x_x)
It looks like the Ram Eco has a tow rating of 9200 lbs, so with a dry weight of 5400 lbs, you'll have up to 3800 lbs of cargo weight before exceeding your tow rating...
[font size="3"]I think the best approach is to start with the towing limits stated in your owners manual. They usually address towed weight, tongue weight, and payload weight. Starting with the 5400# empty trailer weight you have to add all your "stuff" and the toys you'll be hauling. Generally people figure about 1000# of camping stuff, propane, water, batteries, supplies distributed between camper and truck bed. Add to that the weight of all passengers in addition to the driver. Then add the weight of the toy being hauled. That should give a close approximation of the towing requirement. Assume 12%-15% of that as the tongue weight and you should be able to compare these numbers to the rated capacity in your owners manual. I would expect a tongue weight in the 1000# range. Not knowing the exact truck you have and what you plan to haul I can't go much further, but my impression is you're getting very close to the limit. More help may be found at [a href="http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/towing_guide/"]http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/towing_guide/[/a] .
By all means Do NO be swayed by the dealer. He wants to do only one thing: Sell a trailer. Most don't know what they are selling. According to one a Tundra can tow the space shuttle ;). If you have doubts come home and do more research. Good luck and be safe.
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I just traded in an older pop up for a quicksilver Two days ago. The last thing the dealer said to me was to make sure you bring the 8.1 back to him if I ever wanted to sell it, even if not in trade. Also, was truly amazed as to how it towed compared to a similarly sized camper. I would not underestimate the value of having a super lite camper.
Wow...lots a things to think about, i.e., low-hanging waste pipe & water tanks, potential for exceeding towing capacity with our particular TV, salespersons' pressures to sell with little actual product knowledge, no tank monitor, condensation/moisture under mattress issues. Anything else?
Still just the 'wife' here, and at this writing, I still need to share all of your kind posts with my Hubby. But I will update all of you should any have wondered: our trade-in cleaned up quite nicely! It looks like new, and some good memories were revisited in the process. I almost (emphasis on 'almost') want to keep it. But again, just the 'wife' writing here. Sleeping experiences in this TT were horrible with the tip-outs regardless of how we tried to improve it. And it could never haul anything....nor could it ever open up to us like a toy hauler an incredible vista where if we linger, we can drink in God's incredible creation such a great expanse of ocean with all of its offerings from breezes to dolphins and manatees....dining and even sleeping next to it all. Hmmmm...just weighing it all out. 8-)
Tomorrow, Friday, is coming fast.
Thanks again for all of your input. Definitely weighing it all out.
Blessings,
The Wife
P.S. While we may not have enjoyed the 'tip-outs', our dogs sure did.
[attachment id="545" thumbnail="1"]
[quote timestamp="1420152169" author="@gwbushhog" source="/post/5773/thread"]Wow...lots a things to think about, i.e., low-hanging waste pipe & water tanks, potential for exceeding towing capacity with our particular TV, salespersons' pressures to sell with little actual product knowledge, no tank monitor, condensation/moisture under mattress issues. Anything else?[/quote]
Low hanging waste pipe might be an issue, depending on how far off road that you go. You can always add tank heaters if you are planning on winter camping. I winter camp dry - no water in the tanks, water heater or pipes.
If there is condensation under the mattress on the one you are buying, I'd be very, very cautious. That should not happen on a Camplite, VRV or Axxess.
Quote from: @gwbushhog" timestamp="1420152169" source="/post/5773/thread....nor could it ever open up to us like a toy hauler an incredible vista where if we linger, we can drink in God's incredible creation such a great expanse of ocean with all of its offerings from breezes to dolphins and manatees....dining and even sleeping next to it all.
I sometime wish I had a 7x20 VRV for that reason. Backing up to a stream or lake and lie in bed looking out the back...
As far as towing with your 1500 RAM, for me, an 8.5x26 is a
big trailer. Livinlite measures the length of the box, not the overall trailer, so you are towing something that other manufacturers would call a 30' trailer. As far as hitch weight and gross weight, you'll have to do the math and see how comfortable you are with the numbers.
I'm really conservative on towing - for me, a 7x20 would be the largest trailer that I'd really enjoy towing with a 1/2 ton pickup. I really like the 7' width because I can see around it without special mirrors, and for state parks and forests, a 20' box is much easier to stuff into a camping space than a 26'.
Lots of others tow trailers that size and bigger with half-ton trucks though......
Mike
I think the TV is probably adequate if you didn't use it to haul any toys.
[quote timestamp="1420165325" source="/post/5777/thread" author="@pinstriper"]I think the TV is probably adequate if you didn't use it to haul any toys.[/quote][font size="3"]Sort of defeats the purpose, but I agree. The 5400# plus 1000 or so would be about right for that truck I think. [/font]
[quote source="/post/5773/thread" timestamp="1420152169" author="@gwbushhog"]Wow...lots a things to think about, i.e., low-hanging waste pipe & water tanks, potential for exceeding towing capacity with our particular TV, salespersons' pressures to sell with little actual product knowledge, no tank monitor, condensation/moisture under mattress issues. Anything else?
[/quote][font size="3"]The lack of a tank monitor should be your least concern. It's easily rectified by installation of a SeeLevel monitor afterwards.
Re the condensation under the mattress: I recall some mention somewhere but I thought it was on a flip out bed where the underside is directly exposed to the outside. I could not find that post. I would not expect that on an Axxess.
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[font size="3"]Concerning your tow vehicle, I agree about not believing everything they tell you at the car dealership. Ours was pretty clueless and told us stuff that wasn't true. Not that they lied. They just didn't know.
In our case, they told us the after-market installed tow package was identical to the factory-installed. Not true, according to the manual.
Read your car manual and go with what it says. Also it's about drag, not just weight. Measure the height and width of the trailer and stay within what your manual, or the auto company's website, says.[/font]
[quote source="/post/5782/thread" timestamp="1420219560" author="@brenda"][font size="3"]Read your car manual and go with what it says. Also it's about drag, not just weight. Measure the height and width of the trailer and stay within what your manual, or the auto company's website, says.[/font][/quote][font size="3"]I would agree with your post, but I must add a point on drag. If you compute the frontal area you'll never tow anything with anything. The numbers always look grim. However, those numbers don't affect safety or towing comfort; they just affect gas mileage. Gas mileage really shouldn't be a consideration while towing. Hooking a trailer to a TV will almost always knock 50% off the gas mileage. If you read all the posts on all the forums you will see a pretty consistent 10-12 MPG when towing, regardless of the TV/TT combo, unless it's Diesel and/or 5th wheel.
[/font]
It's not a tow rating issue it's a payload issue. Look at the yellow sticker on the door jam and post up what your payload rating is. ON some of the Eco rams they are as low as 850lbs
[quote source="/post/5783/thread" timestamp="1420225403" author="@charliem"][/quote]The front measurements of our trailer are within the specifications of our Jeep GC towing capacity. We get 17-18 mpg towing, but it's a diesel.
Husband says the reason the fuel mileage goes down is the strain on the engine and drivetrain, which it may not be designed for. If you care about your warranty, it's best to follow the vehicle specifications.
(I am so over my head in this conversation.)
Quote from: @brenda" timestamp="1420230544" source="/post/5786/threadThe front measurements of our trailer are within the specifications of our Jeep GC towing capacity. We get 17-18 mpg towing, but it's a diesel.
[font size="3"]Yep, that's nice. Makes for fewer stops. Us gas guys only get the 10-12 mpg. [/font]
[quote source="/post/5787/thread" timestamp="1420230861" author="@charliem"][quote timestamp="1420230544" source="/post/5786/thread" author="@brenda"]The front measurements of our trailer are within the specifications of our Jeep GC towing capacity. We get 17-18 mpg towing, but it's a diesel. [/quote][font size="3"]Yep, that's nice. Makes for fewer stops. Us gas guys only get the 10-12 mpg. [/font]
[/quote]It is nice! And just after we bought the Jeep, the price of diesel dropped below gas in our area. When does THAT ever happen??
Well, RV friends and enthusiasts....we signed papers today! However, we did NOT take possession and won't until next week after the dealer has time to correct a somewhat lengthy 'punchlist' of items. Nothing major, just little things like blinds on one window mounted backwards so that the wand to open and draw string were uselessly pressed against the interior wall; obvious that someone was really not paying attention. Though the punchlist was long enough to keep us from taking possession of the unit today, truth is, all items were minor. Until we actually go on the road, it will be hard to tell if there are more.
We were impressed with the amount of cabinet storage, comfort of beds, sofas and chairs. We were surprised to find an actual fuel tank and fuel pump complete with nozzle! Our son liked that feature a lot. Have to say, we have mixed feelings about the gorgeous 'mirror' silver exterior. Wow! Really something......but seems like it might be hard to just 'blend in', our preferred and standard 'modus operandi'. With this coach, it will be hard not to stand out, let alone blend-in. This will take some getting use to for 'reserved' types like ourselves. 8-)
Thank you, thank you EACH and EVERYONE for all of your helpful discussions, particularly on the topic of payload and potential towing vehicle weight limitations. Our TV should work out alright, because believe it or not, we have no 'toy' to haul...just a couple of mountain bikes, dog crates, patio furniture, etc. We simply love the way the LL Axxess's back end opens us up to a whole wide world with the additional comfort of knowing that if our aging, old selves can no longer climb the steps, we can always drive our motorized wheelchairs up, up and over! LOL! :D
We will send pics of the new rig after we take possession sometime next week, Lord willing.
God bless you each.
[p]Trailmanor has an advertisement showing the results of a TT frontal area study and the affect that it has on a TV's fuel economy. I know that this report is factual because I own one of their TT's. I don't pull it anymore, I let one of my kids use it now. However, when I was pulling this rig I was getting about 16.5 on the road with a 1/2 ton pickup.[/p][p]
[/p][p]GW Bushhog,[/p][p]Just after I posted this message I noticed that you had posted, a few minutes earlier, that you had just signed your papers today. Congratulations, I think that you'll be extremely happy with your purchase. And, I suppose that you'll have to keep the interior tidy as there will probably be a line of people waiting to go through it when you're in the campground.[/p][p]
[/p][p]My bad, I forgot to include the link to the Trailmanor ad [a href="http://www.trailmanor.com/WebDocs/Camping-Towing/towtest.html"]http://www.trailmanor.com/WebDocs/Camping-Towing/towtest.html[/a] [/p]
Welcome to the LL Bunch! I am a new owner of a Camplite 21-BHS, my first-ever RV. I have asked questions of the experienced RVers here, and they have been so very helpful. As you go down the road with your new camper, I hope you will enjoy it as I do. Looking forward to your pics...
[quote source="/post/5792/thread" timestamp="1420260296" author="@gwbushhog"]Well, RV friends and enthusiasts....we signed papers today! We will send pics of the new rig after we take possession sometime next week, Lord willing.
God bless you each.
[/quote]Congrats on your Axxess purchase!!!!!!! Looking forward to seeing photos!
Congrats on the new trailer. If you get a chance please post up the payload rating on your truck. I'm curious to see real world numbers printed on the trucks sticker vs advertise specs.
Very cool on the purchase! I know just what you mean about having that big space to invent a nice camping experience. My wife and I looked at the LL toy haulers at an RV show and envied the possibilities for customization presented by the big space and large "back door". Hope to see you on the road and find out what you did with it. At the very least, post photos when you've got it ready (though I know something like that will never be "done").
[quote source="/post/5792/thread" timestamp="1420260296" author="@gwbushhog"]Well, RV friends and enthusiasts....we signed papers today!
Our TV should work out alright, because believe it or not, we have no 'toy' to haul...just a couple of mountain bikes, dog crates, patio furniture, etc. We simply love the way the LL Axxess's back end opens us up to a whole wide world with the additional comfort of knowing that if our aging, old selves can no longer climb the steps, we can always drive our motorized wheelchairs up, up and over! LOL! :D
We will send pics of the new rig after we take possession sometime next week, Lord willing.
God bless you each.
[/quote][font size="3"]You didn't tell us you weren't going to haul heavy toys. In that case I withdraw all my concerns with weight and TV capacity. You should do fine. Enjoy your new purchase and keep us informed :).[/font]
Congrats! Enjoy that new rig!!
congrats on your new purchase.....I also am using my 2014 Ram 1500 ED as my tow vehicle......I have the Axxess 24' toy hauler......there's two full size bike in it now ready to go to Sarasota....I have the Anderson WD hitch......although I have not gone on a road trip yet, I did test tow with the hitch and was very impressed on how much it made the ride smoother........have fun!!
Say it's not so! This question is posed to all 'toy hauler' owners specifically. Is the cargo door really comprised of foam board, [font color="e62e15"]WOOD[/font] covered by aluminum? Read another forum where outright rot and rusting at hinges has occurred. This would make the 'no wood, no rust or rot' claim pretty misleading, to say the least.
Please say it ain't so! ???
I have also read that the tip-out bunk also has wood in the tip-out door. LL does not manufacture these doors themselves, but sources them from another manufacturer. I thought the company said that they had tried to have as much wood eliminated as possible, but that they were unable to have doors manufactured without some wood. The entry door also contains some wood, as well.
If anyone here has different information, please post. As others here have done, I willingly paid a lot more money to have an aluminum camper.
"Jan 4, 2015 at 5:58pm exploringcarolina said:
LivinLite is a BBB member.
Check out the 9-16-2014 complaint and resolution:
[font color="#e64a19"]www.bbb.org/northernindiana/business-reviews/recreational-vehicle-manufacturers/livin-lite-recreational-vehicles-in-wakarusa-in-90057343/complaints#breakdown
[/font][font color="#110703"] "[/font]
UPDATE: We plan to go through with the purchase and take responsibility that our pre-purchase research was insufficient. We did sign to buy and will choose to let our 'yay' mean 'yay' and make good on our agreement. Too bad, however, that Livin Lite apparently chooses to mislead the public with their 'all-aluminum, no wood' claims. If the positive claims made by LL rep, the dealer and some posting on this forum are true, that is, that LL RVs are still the best thing going on in the RV world, then why not own the facts that there is wood in their products and train dealers to follow suit?
The following was posted on "Ask the Factory" yesterday, and since we started the topic thread here, we'll post it here as well for whatever help it may be to those contemplating a LL purchase. It is our experience only, and is shared as such.
"This is turning out badly. LivinLite's rep called us yesterday at dealer's request. States that yes, there is wood in the cargo door, luan - a type of plywood. Says to just watch it, keep up with the seal at the bottom. Stated he was new at LL since this summer and took responsibility saying that he must do better training of the dealer's sales force. The dealer is stating that they had no knowledge about wood in LLite's toyhaulers. While we would like to give them the benefit of the doubt, it's hard to believe they knew nothing of this. It could appear to some that both mfr./dealer 'might' be complicit in the all-aluminum 'cover-up' of wood in toyhauler line. It's very disappointing, takes the joy out of the experience. Most disappointing.
This is third day since signing paperwork paying premium (at least $10,000 over stick equivalent). Paid premium for 'peace of mind', though we haven't yet taken delivery of unit; not driven off the dealer's lot since the dealer is still working on fixing the punch list items. We're told that if we back-out on the purchase (not that we've chosen this route at this writing), the dealer (nameless at this writing) will treat the unit as pre-owned and as a trade-in. Wow, this went south fast! Have consumers any rights against misleading advertising claims? Despite dealer pivoting quickly to play 'hardball' with us, we don't want to play that game. Again, we place a premium on 'peace of mind'.
I did ask the rep at Livin Lite to eliminate this future scenario for other prospective toyhauler buyers by simple disclosure of the facts. (Why is 'truth' so difficult and elusive these days?) Then let the buyer make up their own mind. The rep stated that he would tell the 'owner' who was just up the hallway.
Any wise counsel out there?
Signed,
Disappointed in Florida :-/"
You have two issues here - the manufacturer and the dealer. I knew about the wood in the entry door and went ahead with the purchase because I feel this is the best travel trailer on the market. I will just have to accept the wood in the entry door.
The dealer is another matter. I would like to know the name of this dealer because of the way you have been treated. This is not a dealer I would want to use, not even for repairs under warranty.
Even with all this, I think you will find greater satisfaction with this toy hauler than owners of toy haulers who have gone with a different manufacturer.
[quote timestamp="1420226721" author="@tommyc" source="/post/5784/thread"]It's not a tow rating issue it's a payload issue. Look at the yellow sticker on the door jam and post up what your payload rating is. ON some of the Eco rams they are as low as 850lbs [/quote][p]This is the best post in this thread. It is all about payload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/p][p]
[/p][p]OP, look at the yellow tire and load info sticker in the door jam of your truck and see what your Payload rating is. The problem you will have is the same problem I have with my 19' VRV. They are tongue heavy. Add the tongue weight, people weight, and everything else you put on the truck and see if it exceeds the payload rating on the yellow sticker in door jam. [/p][p]
[/p][p]Also, I totally disagree about feeling better about the trailer knowing you aren't towing toys. Not putting toys in the back INCREASES tongue weight. Hauling a big toy in the back decreases tongue weight which may be important in our case only having a 1/2 ton truck.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Finally, it is true that there is wood in the VRV's. Totally false advertising as far as I am concerned. I bought mine because I didn't want rot, rust, etc. Well, mine is at the manufacturer now getting the ramp door replaced because it's bubbling through the aluminum skin on the lower part of the ramp door. Manufacturer confirmed it is corrosion caused by some sort of reaction due to dissimilar metals. I guess the aluminum and doesn't mix well with the metal hinges in the bottom of the ramp door. Also, the ramp doors let moisture in and then the wood core suffers and rots. [/p][p]
[/p][p]I really hope the OP's like the new trailer, but I believe you may wish you had a 3/4 ton truck when it's all said and done. I hope I'm wrong, and your truck does the trick.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p]
Quote from: @vrvinmo" timestamp="1420689500" source="/post/5910/thread[quote timestamp="1420226721" author="@tommyc" source="/post/5784/thread"]It's not a tow rating issue it's a payload issue. Look at the yellow sticker on the door jam and post up what your payload rating is. ON some of the Eco rams they are as low as 850lbs
[p]This is the best post in this thread. It is all about payload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/p][p]
[/p][p]OP, look at the yellow tire and load info sticker in the door jam of your truck and see what your Payload rating is. The problem you will have is the same problem I have with my 19' VRV. They are tongue heavy. Add the tongue weight, people weight, and everything else you put on the truck and see if it exceeds the payload rating on the yellow sticker in door jam. [/p][p]
[/p][p]Also, I totally disagree about feeling better about the trailer knowing you aren't towing toys. Not putting toys in the back INCREASES tongue weight. Hauling a big toy in the back decreases tongue weight which may be important in our case only having a 1/2 ton truck.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Finally, it is true that there is wood in the VRV's. Totally false advertising as far as I am concerned. I bought mine because I didn't want rot, rust, etc. Well, mine is at the manufacturer now getting the ramp door replaced because it's bubbling through the aluminum skin on the lower part of the ramp door. Manufacturer confirmed it is corrosion caused by some sort of reaction due to dissimilar metals. I guess the aluminum and doesn't mix well with the metal hinges in the bottom of the ramp door. Also, the ramp doors let moisture in and then the wood core suffers and rots. [/p][p]
[/p][p]I really hope the OP's like the new trailer, but I believe you may wish you had a 3/4 ton truck when it's all said and done. I hope I'm wrong, and your truck does the trick.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][/quote][p]Good point about the payload and tongue weight. Those are important. [/p][p]
[/p][p]However, it is NOT "all about the payload", if you mean GVWR of the TV, which is where tongue weight would factor.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Putting a toy in the back could well reduce the tongue weight and take you over the tow rating and/or the GCVWR.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Not disagreeing with you other than perhaps to say you are oversimplifying.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Like you, I also would personally have opted for the 3/4 truck with such a long trailer, and being so close to the limits. [/p][p]
[/p]
It really is all about the payload. You will be over payload capacity on almost every off the lot vehicle long before hitting tow capacity of it. I've played this game I've done the research and I have seen the real world numbers. I had a Tundra double cab (which I loved) before I bought my 2500hd (which I hate) but I would never choose to tow my 24' VRV with the tundra. My trailer is 5200lbs bone dry with nothing in it no batteries, no propane tanks, and nothing in holding tanks on the way home from picking it up. Tongue weight was right about 750lbs now add 2 batteries and a full propane tank we'll call it 850lbs. Add a w/d hitch which is a MUST on these when using a half ton and your at 950lbs. My tundra had a payload rating of 1280lbs which I'm confident is higher than the ops tow vehicle.
Here's how I decide on a new truck
Payload-1280
Minus
Tongue-950
Me-190
Wife-110
Son-65
=35lbs overweight before putting a single item in the trailer or truck.
tundra had the power to pull everything (I'm about 9500lbs loaded) but legally it was overweight and that's what mattered to me. God forbid you were in an accident insurance can deny the claim and potential liabilities are unthinkable.
[quote source="/post/5912/thread" timestamp="1420698546" author="@pinstriper"][quote source="/post/5910/thread" timestamp="1420689500" author="@vrvinmo"][p]This is the best post in this thread. It is all about payload!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [/p][p]
[/p][p]OP, look at the yellow tire and load info sticker in the door jam of your truck and see what your Payload rating is. The problem you will have is the same problem I have with my 19' VRV. They are tongue heavy. Add the tongue weight, people weight, and everything else you put on the truck and see if it exceeds the payload rating on the yellow sticker in door jam. [/p][p]
[/p][p]Also, I totally disagree about feeling better about the trailer knowing you aren't towing toys. Not putting toys in the back INCREASES tongue weight. Hauling a big toy in the back decreases tongue weight which may be important in our case only having a 1/2 ton truck.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Finally, it is true that there is wood in the VRV's. Totally false advertising as far as I am concerned. I bought mine because I didn't want rot, rust, etc. Well, mine is at the manufacturer now getting the ramp door replaced because it's bubbling through the aluminum skin on the lower part of the ramp door. Manufacturer confirmed it is corrosion caused by some sort of reaction due to dissimilar metals. I guess the aluminum and doesn't mix well with the metal hinges in the bottom of the ramp door. Also, the ramp doors let moisture in and then the wood core suffers and rots. [/p][p]
[/p][p]I really hope the OP's like the new trailer, but I believe you may wish you had a 3/4 ton truck when it's all said and done. I hope I'm wrong, and your truck does the trick.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][/quote][p]Good point about the payload and tongue weight. Those are important. [/p][p]
[/p][p]However, it is NOT "all about the payload", if you mean GVWR of the TV, which is where tongue weight would factor.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Putting a toy in the back could well reduce the tongue weight and take you over the tow rating and/or the GCVWR.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Not disagreeing with you other than perhaps to say you are oversimplifying.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Like you, I also would personally have opted for the 3/4 truck with such a long trailer, and being so close to the limits.
My Husband says the door jam sticker (which is white in this case) references GVWR for the truck alone (6950#), then there is front and rear axle rating (3700#) each, but no payload rating. We are getting ready now to go for inspection and if all goes to plan, will take delivery of the 'Ax', seeing that the dealer has taken the hard-ball stance they've chosen to employ, thereby assuming no responsibility for theirs and Livin Lite's misleading claims of 'no wood' in Livin Lite products.
Dumb question here....what does 'OP' stand for?
(Thank you ALL for your counsel and comments. It is appreciated more than you know....the 'wife')
[/p][p]
[/p][/quote]
Op= original poster
Look on the door itself sometimes it gets stuck on there. GVWR is a good start payload= GVWR - actual truck weight. At this point I'm sure you are buying so hit a truck scale on the way home. Weigh the total package then unhook and reweigh just the truck. Probably cost $12 but is money well spent to know your baseline numbers.
I know of 4 scales within 30 minutes of me that are free, run by the state for ag trucks. When they are closed, they leave the scale on. ymmv
Seems like TTs used to include actual, as delivered vehicle weight on the trailer's sticker. No more. I suspect that the same thing happened with trucks. You have to add all of the factory options yourself to the manufacturer's dry curb weight to get actual weight as a place to start. Then add dealer add ons like batteries and propane tanks, water, waste and gear. Easier just to weigh it.
David
Bit of thread drift here, but I'll join the fun. Payload is clearly a critical safety issue, no doubt. But my simple mind thinks that tongue weight is one of the easiest things to change by just rebalancing the load in the trailer. I do it every single time I use my utility trailer. Since it is adjustable (admittedly with limits), payload becomes less of a limiting factor. Then TV towing capacity and total weight going down the road start to be important. From experience, if you get very much above or below 10-12% of the trailer weight on the tongue, it can be a problem. Rebalancing the load to achieve that will help keep the trailer contribution to payload down in the TV. In the end, knowing all the relevant numbers for your rig is important to safe towing and that means it's about more than just one factor.
[quote source="/post/5913/thread" timestamp="1420727482" author="@tommyc"]It really is all about the payload. You will be over payload capacity on almost every off the lot vehicle long before hitting tow capacity of it. I've played this game I've done the research and I have seen the real world numbers. I had a Tundra double cab (which I loved) before I bought my 2500hd (which I hate) but I would never choose to tow my 24' VRV with the tundra. My trailer is 5200lbs bone dry with nothing in it no batteries, no propane tanks, and nothing in holding tanks on the way home from picking it up. Tongue weight was right about 750lbs now add 2 batteries and a full propane tank we'll call it 850lbs. Add a w/d hitch which is a MUST on these when using a half ton and your at 950lbs. My tundra had a payload rating of 1280lbs which I'm confident is higher than the ops tow vehicle.
Here's how I decide on a new truck
Payload-1280
Minus
Tongue-950
Me-190
Wife-110
Son-65
=35lbs overweight before putting a single item in the trailer or truck.
tundra had the power to pull everything (I'm about 9500lbs loaded) but legally it was overweight and that's what mattered to me. God forbid you were in an accident insurance can deny the claim and potential liabilities are unthinkable.
[/quote][p]Again, you truly get it. OP, listen to this poster!!!! [/p][p]
[/p][p]I realize it's over simplifying to say "it's all about the TW." But, in this case, it really is. The OP's truck, like mine, can probably easily tow close to 10,000#'s. They will run out of payload LONG before they run out of towing capacity. My F150 has a payload of 1200# Toy hauler's have massive TW, and don't listen to the dealer or manufacturer about how much. My dealer said my TW was 630#. WRONG!!! I weighed it at closer to 850#. So, my payload of 1200# - TW of 850# means I can put 350 #'s on my truck. Keep in mind my VRV is only a 6x19 model weighing 3300# by itself. Can my truck tow it. Heck yes, I can hit 80 mph uphill if I want easy. I just can't take anyone with me camping because I'll be over payload. :(
[/p]
Here is the sticker that will be on the door or jam of the drivers side on all late model vehicles. This will tell you the payload for your specific vehicle. In my case 1199#.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8654/16208518786_5ff6059b40_b.jpg)
(https://flic.kr/p/qGhTWs)IMG_1881 (https://flic.kr/p/qGhTWs) by oneboltzfan (https://www.flickr.com/people/62925555@N07/), on Flickr
Hello all LL owner/enthusiasts! A sincere word of thanks is in order to each for your thoughtful responses as we contemplated the many factors leading up to final decision on an Axxess TH purchase. As to the 'door jam sticker', our Ram's sticker turned out to be next to the door jam, on the underside of the cab body. We sure went round and round crunching numbers as to payload, towing weights, GVWR, etc., etc., and have concluded that in the final analysis, 'absolutes' are elusive since we all concede that manufacturers' data cannot be absolutely trusted, that is, we must adjust 'up or down' to ensure that we're 'absolutely' within safe limits in every way. (Also elusive is the absolute weight of the women in this family...lol! :-X)
In the end, one thing is absolutely certain, we must be absolutely certain to load the TH, any unit for that matter, in such ways that deference is always given to TV's payload limitations...though not the payload alone!? O_o Absolutely!
Thank you each again....
[quote source="/post/5952/thread" timestamp="1421096728" author="@gwbushhog"]Hello all LL owner/enthusiasts! A sincere word of thanks is in order to each for your thoughtful responses as we contemplated the many factors leading up to final decision on an Axxess TH purchase. As to the 'door jam sticker', our Ram's sticker turned out to be next to the door jam, on the underside of the cab body. We sure went round and round crunching numbers as to payload, towing weights, GVWR, etc., etc., and have concluded that in the final analysis, 'absolutes' are elusive since we all concede that manufacturers' data cannot be absolutely trusted, that is, we must adjust 'up or down' to ensure that we're 'absolutely' within safe limits in every way. (Also elusive is the absolute weight of the women in this family...lol! :-X)
In the end, one thing is absolutely certain, we must be absolutely certain to load the TH, any unit for that matter, in such ways that deference is always given to TV's payload limitations...though not the payload alone!? O_o Absolutely!
Thank you each again....
[/quote]So what is your payload rating and did you buy the Access?
[quote timestamp="1421199996" author="@vrvinmo" source="/post/5987/thread"][quote source="/post/5952/thread" timestamp="1421096728" author="@gwbushhog"]Hello all LL owner/enthusiasts! A sincere word of thanks is in order to each for your thoughtful responses as we contemplated the many factors leading up to final decision on an Axxess TH purchase. As to the 'door jam sticker', our Ram's sticker turned out to be next to the door jam, on the underside of the cab body. We sure went round and round crunching numbers as to payload, towing weights, GVWR, etc., etc., and have concluded that in the final analysis, 'absolutes' are elusive since we all concede that manufacturers' data cannot be absolutely trusted, that is, we must adjust 'up or down' to ensure that we're 'absolutely' within safe limits in every way. (Also elusive is the absolute weight of the women in this family...lol! :-X)
In the end, one thing is absolutely certain, we must be absolutely certain to load the TH, any unit for that matter, in such ways that deference is always given to TV's payload limitations...though not the payload alone!? O_o Absolutely!
Thank you each again....
[/quote]So what is your payload rating and did you buy the Access?
VRVINMO,
So glad you Axx'd. The 'wife' here, and in response to your inquiry, once the sticker was located, I understand the Ram ED to have a payload of 1175#.
As to the Axxess, we'll believe it when the 'fat lady sings'! We've yet to take delivery, awaiting complete refrigerator replacement. You can bet we'll sing out when it happens.
By the way, is your VRV the gorgeous blue one, 2013 model? What a stunning color, really. After 1-2 years of ownership, what is your overall opinion of all things LL and RVing?
Again, thank you for Axx'ing and helping us out with sticker pic and information. Appreciate all of you!
[/quote]
[quote source="/post/6004/thread" timestamp="1421259468" author="@gwbushhog"][quote source="/post/5987/thread" timestamp="1421199996" author="@vrvinmo"]So what is your payload rating and did you buy the Access?
VRVINMO,
So glad you Axx'd. The 'wife' here, and in response to your inquiry, once the sticker was located, I understand the Ram ED to have a payload of 1175#.
As to the Axxess, we'll believe it when the 'fat lady sings'! We've yet to take delivery, awaiting complete refrigerator replacement. You can bet we'll sing out when it happens.
By the way, is your VRV the gorgeous blue one, 2013 model? What a stunning color, really. After 1-2 years of ownership, what is your overall opinion of all things LL and RVing?
Again, thank you for Axx'ing and helping us out with sticker pic and information. Appreciate all of you!
[/quote][/quote]Thanks for your reply. So, you are going to experience exactly what I experience regarding payload. My F150 is only rated at 1199#. That is the weak link to the 1/2 ton trucks. I love my VRV, and yes, it is the light Pepsico Blue. I can't comment on LL as my VRV was built by ATC, The Aluminum Trailer Company. ATC is AWESOME! Any problems I had they quickly stepped up and paid my local RV dealer to fix. When my ramp door started bubbling, ATC offered to drive over 6 hours to pick up my VRV to fix it for free. My only complaint is I wish I had the 8' wide instead of 6' wide. That's why I am so interested in seeing if you can tow yours with the Ram similar to my F150. I hope you can, but have doubts. Anyway, I wish you the best.
Quote from: @brenda" source="/post/5743/thread" timestamp="1420051163[quote source="/post/5730/thread" timestamp="1420003946" author="@gwbushhog"]Thank you! Glad to hear this. What did purchase?
We have a 21RBS. We shopped for months and saw a lot of junk. It always came down to paying for quality. One older salesman who had been in the business for many years, said to consider all that goes into an RV. You can't get quality in something like that, for 15K. Read the reviews. We were fortunate to find a used 2014 model, which saved us over 10K, although we had to drive over 3000 miles to go get it. RVtrader.com is a good source.
One of the things that sold us was the fact that the all-aluminum frame was so light. We can comfortably tow it with a mid-sized SUV. We didn't want to buy a pickup, nor did we want a Suburban. Whatever vehicle we bought to tow our trailer, would be MY vehicle to drive, and I wanted to park in our garage. After a lot of research, we settled on a Jeep Grand Cherokee, diesel, and it pulls our Camplite beautifully. Plus it's fun to drive AND fits in the garage.... the car, not the trailer. It probably would have pulled another brand of trailer alright, but we weren't sure. We have no worries with the weight or mass of the Camplite because it is well within the limits specified by Jeep.
[span style="font-size:10pt;"]Lastly, I don't think the interior is stark or utility-seeming. We covered the floor with those foam mats, which a 2015 model wouldn't need, along with a few rugs and bathmat, and I put in attractive, comfortable bedding and it's as cozy as can be. Our cabinets are finished in that faux cherry, which is the same as the 2015s, so you really don't see any aluminum. I don't like all that cutesy, cheesy trim and decor you see in a lot of RVs, anyway. [/span]
[/quote]
Hey Brenda, couldn't agree more on your comments, the wife and I came to the same conclusions after years of research. In fact we were discussing bedding last night and how that would soften things up a lot, could you please verify if the mattress on the 21RBS runs standard Queen Size? We pick up our 21RBS on the 30th and would be nice to know. Thanks!
The 21BHS mattress is standard queen size, and I assume the 21RBS is the same.
[quote source="/post/6102/thread" timestamp="1421783432" author="@surfsup"] please verify if the mattress on the 21RBS runs standard Queen Size? We pick up our 21RBS on the 30th and would be nice to know. Thanks![/quote]The 21RBS bed is standard full queen 60"x80". Around the end of 2013 they upgraded to a 6"-8" mattress. It actually works for me.
Thanks for the replies... We liked the new mattress and felt that it was true to size, but it's nice to know we can just use our sheets from home when we hit the road :)
UPDATE for all who haven't asked: We are still waiting to take full delivery of our 'Axx'. The dealer finally received the replacement refrigerator and changed it out promptly. But since there was a wait involved for this fix, we had time to visit the Tampa RV show. While there at Livin Lite's booth, we saw a new toy hauler, an Axxess, but with a different trim level...more wood. It was dubbed across its exterior walls - 'IGNITE'! (Get it? More wood.... 'ignite'???) Oh, come on, that there is funny...seems LL might have a sense of humor! But I digress. This toy hauler's cargo door had been converted to a patio deck which greatly expanded the unit's overall living space, not only opening up additional square footage, but also an abundance of natural light, blue skies and fresh air. Uhhhhhhhhh....now that's why we paid the big bucks, don't you know!
Shortly thereafter while still at the show, we had the pleasure of bumping into LL's Pres., Scott Tuttle, while we munched on an overpriced sausage dog, fries and iced tea. He was very warm and a courteous young man, though our mouths were full, and did consent to a 'selfie' with us. We told him it might end up posted on this forum where Livin Lite's 'aluminatti' (aka, fan club) frequented. He sent his warm regards to you each and it brought a big smile to his face to know you are there. As to posting our selfie with Mr. Tuttle, we're not sure if we should, with privacy protection concerns, etc., knowing how things on the world wide web can come back to 'bite'. Besides, I don't want to risk having Pinstriper calculate this passenger's BMI for possible TV payload overload and fiery death crash potentialities. ;)
As to the cargo door/patio conversion on the 'Ignite', Mr. Tuttle told us it was simple and our dealer could retro-fit it easily. The dealer is working on it right now admitting this is new to them. So, on a different 'Subject' thread we started, "'Say it ain't so...wood in the cargo door?" (or something like this), you may recall our upset in discovering wood in Livin Lite's toy hauler cargo doors feeling that we were misled by LLite's 'no wood' claims. This discovery almost stopped our purchase, but since that time, we've decided to make 'lemonade out of lemons'. Instead of viewing our unit as a 'lemon' because of perceived 'false advertising', we've opted to retro-fit the cargo door so that we can sip ice-cold lemonade while lounging on the 'wood deck', that is, whenever we finally take delivery of the 'Axx'! Come join us if you can...lemonade and/or root-beer floats for all LL friends. 'Til then, God bless you each, stay warm, encouraged and looking up!
P.S. Almost forgot, we're also installing an electric jack.
So, I'm curious - did Mr. T have a response to your "No wood" consternation ?
[quote source="/post/6248/thread" author="@pinstriper" timestamp="1422409667"]So, I'm curious - did Mr. T have a response to your "No wood" consternation ?[/quote]No...but then again, we didn't ask Mr. T. We were sippin' lemonade by this point (metaphorically speaking) and already had the answer from the factory (Dan S.), as well as from the LL rep on the ground at the show who reiterated what Dan had stated: LL doesn't make the cargo doors; they utilize the best door on the market (Challenger) and it it does contain a thin sheet of water/rot resistant luan. "Just watch it", we're told, and "seal it" annually. In other words, care for the cargo door in like-kind way that we care for the whole unit.
There was an inferred sense of regret conveyed by the LL rep at the show that any wood was now being used as seen in the cabinetry in units on display. Consumers are voicing their wants and LL is listening. However LL decides to continue marketing themselves will be interesting to watch; more important is that we are watching. Most importantly is that when failure of any kind occurs within their scope of responsibility, Livin Lite back up their product's warranty promptly.
Love that lemonade and looking forward to using our 'wood deck' soon! 8-)