In my case, the Prodigy P3 with the standard electric brakes on the CL 21-BHS.
When I drove away from the dealer, the technician told me that he had set it up for a light trailer, and he mentioned something about 4.5. I'm thinking, OKAY... What do I know? I asked about "training" the brake controller? Taking it out to an empty road, going 25-30 mph, and checking for brake lockup. He said no - just drive and adjust it up or down, depending upon if I feel the trailer pushing my Jeep, or if I feel the trailer is stopping the Jeep.
I actually pushed the down button twice while I was driving, and I felt pretty comfortable with the braking. Since then, a couple of men have backed up the Jeep with me in it, to help me figure out what I should be doing. They were very helpful with backing up, but they decided the brake controller was not helping, and they pushed buttons repeatedly. And frantically. Now I am not happy with the braking. BTW, I read the owner's manual. I would have gotten just as much out of it if I had read the French version.
Here is what is going on now. I have played with the up and down buttons. Keeping in mind LL's owner's manual advice about needing more room to come to a stop, I start slowing and braking well before I approach a red light with a car stopped there. I am stopping sooner than I intend, like 2 car lengths away from the car, and it feels like the trailer is stopping the Jeep. Then I ease up on the brake to close the gap, and the rig goes bump - bump -bump with the feeling that the trailer is pushing the Jeep. I would prefer to make a smooth stop.
I admit I get nervous when approaching a red light with a stopped car. When there is no car there, I don't think so much, slow down and brake according to the way the rig feels. Then I can come to a smooth stop where I intend to stop.
Advice?
I've got my P3 set at 4.5 for my 16 TBS and for the most part and very happy with it. I do notice that if I brake harder than usual that the trailer appears to 'push' a little as I let the brake off. Since most of the time it works fine I havent messed with it any more. I'd be interested to hear if you figure out how to get rid of that little push
The adjustment is important to get right to be able to safely stop in an emergency, not just regular stops. You need to have the trailer braking enough to help stop fast while not jackknifing but not so much the brakes lock up because you don't want it skidding uncontrolled behind you. If you don't understand the P3 manual, is there someplace you can take to get it adjusted properly. I disagree with those who told you to just drive and set it because it can be hard to tell if the wheels are locking up. That bumping you feel may be that?
Anyway, the instructions have you:
1. First set the brake type, electric in your case.
2. Then set the power to the trailer using the Power button. That's done without using the TV brakes, just the manual lever on the P3 and driving slowly in a big empty parking lot. It takes 2 people, one to drive and one to watch the trailer wheels for lockup.
3. After the Power is set correctly, you set the boost using the Boost button for your trailer/TV combo.
4. Then, finally road test it. Adjust the boost only if necessary (and it probably won't be).
There are other display settings, but the steps above are the main things. It took me a total of an hour, including the trip to the parking lot, but the P3 now works just right and the trailer behaves great while stopping.
Quote from: @sandroad" source="/post/5095/thread" timestamp="1416014529The adjustment is important to get right to be able to safely stop in an emergency, not just regular stops. You need to have the trailer braking enough to help stop fast while not jackknifing but not so much the brakes lock up because you don't want it skidding uncontrolled behind you. If you don't understand the P3 manual, is there someplace you can take to get it adjusted properly. I disagree with those who told you to just drive and set it because it can be hard to tell if the wheels are locking up. That bumping you feel may be that?
Anyway, the instructions have you:
1. First set the brake type, electric in your case.
2. Then set the power to the trailer using the Power button. That's done without using the TV brakes, just the manual lever on the P3 and driving slowly in a big empty parking lot. It takes 2 people, one to drive and one to watch the trailer wheels for lockup.
3. After the Power is set correctly, you set the boost using the Boost button for your trailer/TV combo.
4. Then, finally road test it. Adjust the boost only if necessary (and it probably won't be).
There are other display settings, but the steps above are the main things. It took me a total of an hour, including the trip to the parking lot, but the P3 now works just right and the trailer behaves great while stopping.
Merlin, you gave me some info the owner's manual lacked. You said to set the power button using the manual control only. I didn't do it that way. The problem with the people who write owner's manuals is that they know what they are dealing with, and don't take into account people who are clueless.
When there is a break in the weather, I will follow your instructions. Until then, I am keeping busy trying to stay warm while walking my dogs, who are not enjoying this weather either.
My local trailer guy said he used a Tekonsha Voyager, which I think is their most basic model, and said it would be find for our usage and it seems to be.
No digital display, just two knobs and a slider and some indicator lights.
Seems to work, though I think mine needs some fine tuning - the trailer feels like its neither pushing nor pulling, but the slider barely applies the trailer brakes. Will probably play with it before our next long trip.
[font size="3"]From the FWIW Dept:
I started with Prodigy Voyager, also at the recommendation of my dealer. The same dealer, BTW, that installed the E2 WDH brackets upside down and loose. The Voyager was a real PITA, always needing a tweak and never really working. My wife finally convinced me to upgrade to the P3. What a night and day difference. Easy to install, self leveling, easy to set up, and a constant display of what's going on. Don't leave home without it ;).
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Use a Tekonsha PowerTrac costing $43.
As per E-Trailer site: "Powertrac applies your trailer's brakes when the brake pedal in your tow vehicle is engaged. The trailer brakes will be activated with an intensity set by you. This output (amount of braking power) is adjustable to suit your preference, as well as road conditions, type of trailer and load. You can also apply the brakes manually with the integrated override".
I put the vehicle in drive on level ground and lightly press the brake pedal until TV brake light/trailer brake controller led lights are activated. Then adjust the trailer brake application force.
Used E-trailer's plug & play harness that plugs directly into the PowerTrac harness & existing Nissan harness on the steering column. Also installed Nissan's plug & play 7 pin plug & harness and OEM hitch. I like these new vehicles with plug & play harnesses. Current Frontys come with automatic tranny coolers.
http://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Controller/Tekonsha/39523.html
I have used simple on/off brake controllers like the Powertrac mentioned above as well as the proportional P3 controller. The P3 is much superior.
It uses a solid state accelerometer to detect the initial deceleration of the rig when you first step on the brakes. It then applies current to the trailer's brake magnets in proportion to the deceleration that it senses. The maximum current is adjustable.
It gives a unique feeling. You can feel it engage the trailer's brake a fraction of a second after you step on the brakes and more as you step harder on the brake. If it is set up right it is quite smooth. I set it at about 75% of locking up the trailer brakes on hard pavement. With the TV capable of 100% of lock up and the trailer at 75%, given the relative weights of the two in my case, I can stop at about 90% in a panic stop.
The on/off type only has one current setting- too much for light braking like slowing down at a stop light but not enough for an all out emergency stop. I set the trailer to about 50% so the maximum panic stop is about 80%.
Go with the Prodigy P3.
David
When I move up to a larger TT probably will go with a P3. Current TT ready to camp weight @ 1950lbs.
[quote timestamp="1416414129" author="@david" source="/post/5187/thread"]I have used simple on/off brake controllers like the Powertrac mentioned above as well as the proportional P3 controller. The P3 is much superior.
It uses a solid state accelerometer to detect the initial deceleration of the rig when you first step on the brakes. It then applies current to the trailer's brake magnets in proportion to the deceleration that it senses. The maximum current is adjustable.
It gives a unique feeling. You can feel it engage the trailer's brake a fraction of a second after you step on the brakes and more as you step harder on the brake. If it is set up right it is quite smooth. I set it at about 75% of locking up the trailer brakes on hard pavement. With the TV capable of 100% of lock up and the trailer at 75%, given the relative weights of the two in my case, I can stop at about 90% in a panic stop.
The on/off type only has one current setting- too much for light braking like slowing down at a stop light but not enough for an all out emergency stop. I set the trailer to about 50% so the maximum panic stop is about 80%.
Go with the Prodigy P3.
David[/quote][font size="3"]X2. Absolutely concur. And with the P3 display you can see all of this happening. Go safe, not cheap.
[/font]
Thanks! You guys talked me into it!
Will buy a P3!
http://www.etrailer.com/Brake-Controller/Tekonsha/90195.html
Quote from: @charliem" source="/post/5180/thread" timestamp="1416409313[font size="3"]From the FWIW Dept:
I started with Prodigy Voyager, also at the recommendation of my dealer. The same dealer, BTW, that installed the E2 WDH brackets upside down and loose. The Voyager was a real PITA, always needing a tweak and never really working. My wife finally convinced me to upgrade to the P3. What a night and day difference. Easy to install, self leveling, easy to set up, and a constant display of what's going on. Don't leave home without it ;).
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Moral of this story: Always listen to your wife!
[quote source="/post/5177/thread" timestamp="1416402817" author="@fasteddieb"]My local trailer guy said he used a Kenosha Voyager, which I think is their most basic model, and said it would be find for our usage and it seems to be.
No digital display, just two knobs and a slider and some indicator lights.
Seems to work, though I think mine needs some fine tuning - the trailer feels like its neither pushing nor pulling, but the slider barely applies the trailer brakes. Will probably play with it before our next long trip.[/quote]Sorry fasteddie - It's Tekonsha - as in Tekonsha, Michigan not Kenosha......
But, your trailer guy is right. Nothing wrong with the Voyager. In our past life, we were a Tekonsha brake control wholesale distributor. At that time, the Voyager was the current and best model they produced. Needless to say we had one. It saw use in several trucks over the years and many miles of towing without a problem.
We let it go with a truck because the one we traded for had a factory control. Traded that truck for our present Tacoma, and of course needed a brake control. Choose the Tekonsha Primus IQ model. The operation is similar to the Voyager, but has a digital readout, proportional braking, and is self-leveling. If we still had a Voyager, I would use it, but since I had to buy one I choose the Primus IQ for the additional features and still simple set-up and use and less cost than the P3.
I have a Prodigy P2 and it is a really good proportional brake controller
Quote from: @timeout" timestamp="1416438765" source="/post/5197/thread[quote source="/post/5177/thread" timestamp="1416402817" author="@fasteddieb"]
Sorry fasteddie - It's Tekonsha - as in Tekonsha, Michigan not Kenosha......
I just caught that on a re-read.
Mature Onset Dyslexia![/quote]
Quote from: @sandroad" source="/post/5095/thread" timestamp="1416014529The adjustment is important to get right to be able to safely stop in an emergency, not just regular stops. You need to have the trailer braking enough to help stop fast while not jackknifing but not so much the brakes lock up because you don't want it skidding uncontrolled behind you. If you don't understand the P3 manual, is there someplace you can take to get it adjusted properly. I disagree with those who told you to just drive and set it because it can be hard to tell if the wheels are locking up. That bumping you feel may be that?
Anyway, the instructions have you:
1. First set the brake type, electric in your case.
2. Then set the power to the trailer using the Power button. That's done without using the TV brakes, just the manual lever on the P3 and driving slowly in a big empty parking lot. It takes 2 people, one to drive and one to watch the trailer wheels for lockup.
3. After the Power is set correctly, you set the boost using the Boost button for your trailer/TV combo.
4. Then, finally road test it. Adjust the boost only if necessary (and it probably won't be).
There are other display settings, but the steps above are the main things. It took me a total of an hour, including the trip to the parking lot, but the P3 now works just right and the trailer behaves great while stopping.
Merlin, you helped me SOOOO much! Thank you, thank you, thank you! Kiss, kiss, kiss. (Don't tell my husband!)
You provided me with instructions that were not in the owner's manual. The brake controller is working just the way I want it to. Braking is smooth as silk. I have it set at 4.7, Boost on 1.
Towing my Camplite is so much nicer now. I might even get to where I glance at the passing scenery every now and then, instead of completely focusing on the traffic and road in front, and who might be preparing to pass me from the rear.
I also have to thank charliem for helping me decide to get the P3 and the Equalizer WDH with anti-sway. The trailer was rock-solid for my first long-distance tow. No sway, smooth braking... Towing is no longer a white-knuckle experience.
Quote from: @nmken" source="/post/5094/thread" timestamp="1416012775I've got my P3 set at 4.5 for my 16 TBS and for the most part and very happy with it. I do notice that if I brake harder than usual that the trailer appears to 'push' a little as I let the brake off. Since most of the time it works fine I havent messed with it any more. I'd be interested to hear if you figure out how to get rid of that little push
Nmken, the problem I had with my brake controller was caused by several people changing the setting while they were backing up my trailer using my Jeep. I followed merlin's advice on the setup. I discovered that it was set at 10.4, which is way too much. Now I have it set at 4.7, which is perfect. No more push or bump-bump-bump when I brake.
[quote source="/post/5599/thread" timestamp="1419001283" author="@leslie"]
I also have to thank charliem for helping me decide to get the P3 and the Equalizer WDH with anti-sway. The trailer was rock-solid for my first long-distance tow. No sway, smooth braking... Towing is no longer a white-knuckle experience.[/quote][font size="3"]Leslie,
Now that you have the P3 and WDH set up keep an eye on the coupler for bending [a href="http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/606/bent-coupler-on-21rbs?page=3&scrollTo=5446"]http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/606/bent-coupler-on-21rbs?page=3&scrollTo=5446[/a]. You may have one more mod in your future.
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Quote from: @charliem" source="/post/5608/thread" timestamp="1419008988[quote source="/post/5599/thread" timestamp="1419001283" author="@leslie"]I also have to thank charliem for helping me decide to get the P3 and the Equalizer WDH with anti-sway. The trailer was rock-solid for my first long-distance tow. No sway, smooth braking... Towing is no longer a white-knuckle experience.
[font size="3"]Leslie,
Now that you have the P3 and WDH set up keep an eye on the coupler for bending [a href="http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/606/bent-coupler-on-21rbs?page=3&scrollTo=5446"]http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/606/bent-coupler-on-21rbs?page=3&scrollTo=5446[/a]. You may have one more mod in your future.
[/font][/quote]
I am taking a look at that coupler every time I hitch and unhitch. No problem so far.
Glad I could help. That P3 stuff was fresh in my mind because I had recently adjusted mine. I've removed it from my TV for the winter so I'll probably have to reset it this spring. I'll also be installing the Andersen WDH I bought to reduce sway and bounce.
I set up an appointment to have a brake controller installed on my 2009 Silverado next week. The guy told me they would install the Prodigy P2 controller. After reading here about controllers, I'm thinking of calling to have him switch to the P3? What is the difference in the 2 controllers?
[font size="3"]The operational difference is in the display and ease of operation. The digital display on the P3 shows more of what's going on. I suspect it's easier to set up, but I don't have any first hand experience with the P2. The cost difference is $10-$20 on Amazon depending on which listing and the phase of the moon over the warehouse. You will need the same vehicle specific adapter cable with either. For me, given the insignificant cost difference, the choice was obvious. Mine works perfectly and I always know exactly what it's doing.
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[quote source="/post/10387/thread" timestamp="1430858644" author="@cadman70454"]I set up an appointment to have a brake controller installed on my 2009 Silverado next week. The guy told me they would install the Prodigy P2 controller. After reading here about controllers, I'm thinking of calling to have him switch to the P3? What is the difference in the 2 controllers?[/quote]Apparently lots of people ask about the difference so etrailer.com has a FAQ about that very question: [a href="https://www.etrailer.com/question-13246.html"]https://www.etrailer.com/question-13246.html[/a]
I have P3 and like it. I haven't used others so I can't really compare. The P3 works. I do wish the installer (Speedy Glass) would have tucked it a little further under the dash. My shins often clip it (ouch!) getting in and out of the Jeep.
[font size="3"]PEIslander,
Good find on the link. Not much info there, but seems to lean towards the P3. Probably either would be satisfactory, but for the small price delta, why not go P3? There are some dimensional differences that might be critical in tight installations. Like you, I like my P3 but have no hands on with the P2. I did have a Tekonsha Voyager on my dealer's recommendation and it was terrible.
[/font]
I have a P2 and it works fine. The display basically shows connected, not connected and amount of power going to the trailer brakes when the brake pedal is pushed. The only time I ever look it is when I'm starting a trip to make sure it's connected and when I do adjust the power. It would be hazardous to pay any attention to it while driving other then to quickly check for voltage number while braking and that only if you thought something was wrong. In my mind this is one of those cases where a display is relatively unimportant. That being said, if the P3 has a performance advantage by all means spend the extra few dollars.
[font size="3"]After exploring more on the Etrailer site I deduce the P2 error and status messages are presented as codes. I had this with the Voyager and you had to get the book out to decode the codes. This is because they try to display codes with the limited seven segment numeric display. The P3 displays in English. So the performance is probably similar, but the P3 will be easier to understand. Of course you will learn the most common presentations on the P2 with time, but my memory is already full of other stuff and getting older. The functional price you pay with the P3 is menu hierarchy, but I can get used to that. For the few extra bucks I vote for easier display. Your choice.
[/font]
I have the [a href="http://www.amazon.com/Tekonsha-90250-Prodigy-Electronic-Control/dp/B001P0ZA86"]Tekonsha Prodigy RF[/a] wireless brake controller. I've only towed with it a few times (~2500 miles total) but so far I really like it. My only previous experience with towing trailers with brakes was a boat trailer (with 7,000 lb. boat), and that had the "delayed reaction" surge brakes. In comparison, the very smooth and predictable proportional braking control has been great, and having the ability to clip the control unit wherever I want it in the cab is a nice feature.
Graham
I have the P2, it wasn't my choice my Ford dealership took care of getting it installed before the car was delivered to me, they brought it to a RV dealer to be installed but I had specifically said I wanted a proportional brake controller and not a time delay one. I really like it, it works well for me
[quote source="/post/10404/thread" timestamp="1430911233" author="@graham"]I have the [a href="http://www.amazon.com/Tekonsha-90250-Prodigy-Electronic-Control/dp/B001P0ZA86"]Tekonsha Prodigy RF[/a] wireless brake controller. I've only towed with it a few times (~2500 miles total) but so far I really like it. My only previous experience with towing trailers with brakes was a boat trailer (with 7,000 lb. boat), and that had the "delayed reaction" surge brakes. In comparison, the very smooth and predictable proportional braking control has been great, and having the ability to clip the control unit wherever I want it in the cab is a nice feature.
Graham[/quote][p]We have that as well. One thing we learned was not to put it down in the console next to a cell phone. It will lose pairing with the receiver.[/p][p]
[/p]
[quote source="/post/10413/thread" timestamp="1430919551" author="@pinstriper"][quote source="/post/10404/thread" timestamp="1430911233" author="@graham"]I have the [a href="http://www.amazon.com/Tekonsha-90250-Prodigy-Electronic-Control/dp/B001P0ZA86"]Tekonsha Prodigy RF[/a] wireless brake controller. I've only towed with it a few times (~2500 miles total) but so far I really like it. My only previous experience with towing trailers with brakes was a boat trailer (with 7,000 lb. boat), and that had the "delayed reaction" surge brakes. In comparison, the very smooth and predictable proportional braking control has been great, and having the ability to clip the control unit wherever I want it in the cab is a nice feature.
Graham[/quote][p]We have that as well. One thing we learned was not to put it down in the console next to a cell phone. It will lose pairing with the receiver.[/p][p]
[/p][/quote]
That's interesting and good to know! It probably also explains a brief "NC" blip I saw on my last trip...after 2,000 miles with zero issues, I was pulling up to my house when I saw "NC" for a few seconds. At that point I thought maybe I was just seeing things, but in hindsight I am pretty sure that I moved my cell phone to the console with the controller as I was preparing to get out of the truck.
I will have Camper World install the P3 just for the wordy display rather than the codes.
Thanks everyone.
I've used many brands over the years I have towed.
2 of the units were the P2 and the P3, both were excellent products.
Now my Present Ford F150 has the built in TBC.
[quote source="/post/10418/thread" timestamp="1430929184" author="@swbc150"]I've used many brands over the years I have towed.
2 of the units were the P2 and the P3, both were excellent products.
Now my Present Ford F150 has the built in TBC.
[/quote][font size="3"]I looked at the F150 and someday might yet have one, but for now I have the P3. For my curiosity would you compare the P3 to the built in Ford controller? Display, controls, modes, capabilities, ease of use, effectiveness?
[/font]
I too have a factory installed TBC. I have never owned a P2 or P3, so I can't offer a comparison between models. However, I love where the factory unit is located, it's in plain view high up on the dash. The E slider has a large paddle and is very easy to access, no more fishing around or being tempted to look down to locate it.
AFAIK there are two types of proportional inertial controllers: the older type uses a pendulum with a light sensor that reads how much the pendulum has swung forward due to braking deceleration. These require manual adjustment for leveling.
The other type uses solid state accelerometers (like the ones in your tablet that read shaking) that are mounted in two or more axis which allow automatic leveling.
Tekonsha has three models of the latter type: Primus IQ, P2 and P3. I actually like the compact size of the IQ and can live with its limited display capability. I realize that it only is self leveling to 70 degrees. Does this mean that it simply has fewer accelerometers and the P2 and P3 have more that make it 360 deg self leveling. Or are there other functional differences.
David
[quote source="/post/10421/thread" timestamp="1430932076" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/10418/thread" timestamp="1430929184" author="@swbc150"]I've used many brands over the years I have towed.
2 of the units were the P2 and the P3, both were excellent products.
Now my Present Ford F150 has the built in TBC.
[/quote][font size="3"]I looked at the F150 and someday might yet have one, but for now I have the P3. For my curiosity would you compare the P3 to the built in Ford controller? Display, controls, modes, capabilities, ease of use, effectiveness?
[/font][/quote][p]I prefer the Factory installed TBC as it does work smoother.[/p][p]Adjustment is easy as the gauge for the gain +/- is located in the center of the instrument cluster (the TBC adjuster for the F150 is right above your right knee on the dash panel), this gauge also warns of any issue with the plug-in for the trailer (if the Plug comes disconnected while towing, the Tow Gauge will alert you). Once everything is hook up and checks out "ok" then you can change the monitor screen in the instrument cluster. Whenever you restart the TV the Tow Gauge in the instrument cluster is "on", then you press the "ok" button if it all checks out. You can check the tow Gauge at any time when towing.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I have noticed the gain +/- amount I use is easier to adjust as the Factory TBC really does interact with proportional output based on the TV brake pressure.[/p][p]
[/p][p]
[/p][p]With the "Factory Trailer Sway Control" and the "Tow/Haul Transmission Mode", "Factory installed TBC", the Factory set-ups will spoil you.[/p]