Thought I would start a thread on fuel mileage. I'll start with mine. 2013 f 150 with 5.0. I'm pulling a 2014 14 db. I don't have any tow mods, just a tekonsha brake controller. I'm getting 11.5 on flat land, 62 mph with a normal load of camping gear. That's with me doing the math. What's y'all's?
My 2013 Toyota Tacoma V6 4x4 pulling my 2013 13QBB get's about 13.5
My Toyota Sequoia 5.7L gets 11-13mpg pulling my 21BHS depending on the terrain.
My 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee averages 29 mpg rolling down the Interstate @ 65 mph - 24 mpg in town. Let's see what happens to the mpg after I get my Camplite 21-BHS, sometime after Sept 16.
My Avalanche averages around 18 mpg at 65 mph. I am guessing I will be around 11 with my 29 footer.
My Ram 1500 4.7L averages around 11 MPG towing my 21BHS. Not towing, I get around 20.5 MPG with about 75% highway driving.
I just got back from a long trip in Flexie, sans trailer, and got just over 23 mpg. Pretty decent considering 355 hp on tap.
With our 21BHS in tow, typically right around 12 mpg.
My 2013 Nissan Pathfinder gets 13.5 MPG pulling a 16TBS and 26 MPG on the interstate with no trailer.
From the foregoing it seems that full size pickups or SUVs get about 12 MPG pulling either the 16 or 21 and small pickups and midsize SUVs get 13.5 MPG.
MPG is related to frontal area of the TV and trailer, weight (less so) and the TV's engine displacement and finally speed. I drop from 13.5 to 12 MPG going from 60 to 70 mph.
David
[quote source="/post/3099/thread" timestamp="1409404915" author="@david"]I drop from 13.5 to 12 MPG going from 60 to 70 mph.
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Sounds like it doesn't matter what the vehicle is then. If I drove less than 60 I'd probably get 13.5mpg too. I'm usually going 65-70mph.
[font size="3"]This is consistent with findings on other forums. The primary factors in MPG are frontal area, vehicle speed, wind speed, wind direction, and terrain. The rig weight has a secondary effect if climbing hills or accelerating hard. The physics is it takes a certain amount of power to pull a [strike]parachute[/strike] trailer through air at a given speed. There is a myth, untrue, that bigger engines produce improved MPG. So your choice is get there faster or get there cheaper. :'(
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13.5 mpg while pulling camper would be awesome. I wonder if a tuner for my truck would help?
[p]2010 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 4x4 towing a 09 Jeep Quicksilver 8.0 1150 lbs. loaded up the Beeline (AZ-87) Blue Ridge Campground, 17.9 mpg.[/p]
I pull my 6x15 toyhauler with a 2007 Toyota Tundra with the 4.7 liter, although the trailer is light the high frontal area kills the mileage.
I normally get 17mpg empty, pulling the trailer drops it to around 11mpg doing 60-65.
Sometimes I pull it with my 1996 T-100 with the 3.4 liter and I get 13mpg.
We ran into some people in Colorado with a new Jeep Grand Cherokee with the new diesel, they pull a 23ft Airstream and claim to average 17-18 at highway speeds, although you could buy a lot of fuel for what those new Jeep vehicles cost.
I pull my QS 10 with a 2014 Honda Odyssey with wife and 4 kids and all gear, get 15-16 mpg driving 65-70mph.
Nissan Frontier V6 4x4 pulling a CL 16DB It sounds I'm right in the ballpark about 12-13MPG. I probably could do 1-2 MPG better, but I have aggressive larger AT tires on the pickup.
Subaru Outback 2.5i horizontally opposed flat 4 cylinder with a CVT pulling a QS10 off road. Last trip along flat highway we got 21 MPG with gear, wife, and 2 small kids. I could probably get 23-24 MPG if I kept my speed under 60mph. It's not the most powerful car, but ya gotta like that efficiency.
Just clocked the return trip from Lincoln City to Portlandia. 13.5 with the 2013 4Runner pulling a 14DBS.
We normally get 18.5 or so with normal mixed city/highway.
RAM 1500 HEMI Quad Cab 4X4 towing 21 RBS 8000+ miles. Averaged 10.62 MPG. I did have a problem in a few states by filling up with 85 Octane. The HEMI didnt like it. 9.5 MPG
Does higher octane gas help with towing mpg? Is it better for late model trucks?
2011 V6 RAV4 with QS8 - just got back from 1800 miles trip and our fuel computer showed 22.7. This was mainly flat land of Ohio and Michigan.
My Flex owner's manual recommends higher octane fuel when towing and/or with high temps.
"3.5L V6 EcoBoost engine
Your vehicle is designed to run on regular fuel with an octane rating of 87 or higher. For best overall performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel will be most noticeable in hot weather or in severe duty applications such as towing a trailer."
I think the issue is the engine will sense knocking with low octane fuel and will retard the spark automatically to avoid damage. This will limit hp, but not sure if it would have an appreciable effect on mileage.
I have yet to burn anything other than regular in the Flex - might consider it if towing at very high temps in the mountains, let's say.
[quote source="/post/3207/thread" timestamp="1409706430" author="@woody"]Does higher octane gas help with towing mpg? Is it better for late model trucks?[/quote]I used two tanks of 85 Octane in AZ, TX, and NM. I noticed my mileage dropped to below 10MPG and realized I was using lower octane. My next 3 fill ups were 91 octane just to get the HEMI perking and then back to 87 or 89. I cant say if it was a coincidence or a fact. I didnt hear any engine ping just noticed a 1+MPG drop.
Many, maybe most engines today have a knock sensor that adjusts ignition timing to prevent knock. If the engine was designed for premium fuel then the knock sensor will retard the timing to compensate. But retarded timing is less efficient and therefore it will get lower MPG. So always use the manufacturer recommended grade of gas for those engines (well, all engines).
I don't know if gas engines designed to use regular gas will do the opposite on premium, ie advance the timing and improve mileage. Even if it did, I doubt that the improved mileage would pay for the increased cost of premium.
David
[quote source="/post/3207/thread" timestamp="1409706430" author="@woody"]Does higher octane gas help with towing mpg? Is it better for late model trucks?[/quote][font size="3"]Towing an RPOD 172 (slightly smaller and 1000# lighter than a 21RBS) with a 2010 4WD Honda Pilot I was able to see a 2-3 MPG improvement with 91-93 octane gas. That's enough to pay for the premium gas. I'm unable to make a similar comparison with the Tacoma since the supercharger requires premium.
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[quote source="/post/3234/thread" timestamp="1409761262" author="@david"]I don't know if gas engines designed to use regular gas will do the opposite on premium, ie advance the timing and improve mileage. Even if it did, I doubt that the improved mileage would pay for the increased cost of premium.
[/quote]If an engine is designed to run on regular it won't benefit from premium unfortunately. There isn't any more energy in a higher octane, it just can withstand more compression. Since an engine designed for 87 can't change it's compression ratio, the power will be the same. The exception would be an engine that's designed for 91, but states that it can run on 87. In that case the power is reduced at 87 and it will function without any damage, but since it's designed for 91 that's where the rated HP will be reached.
Interesting comments..I think I'm gonna try running higher octane next trip just for grins, I don't think it will hurt anything. Thanks for info, it really does help.
Forgot to mention.. I always run a Diablo Tuner with the HEMI. It was tuned to run 91.
Was the diablo tune for performance or towing?
I can't help myself... Hum a few bars for me!
[quote source="/post/3302/thread" timestamp="1409872879" author="@woody"]Was the diablo tune for performance or towing?[/quote]Performance so it was expecting 91 octane.
My 1999 Honda Odyssey runs on unleaded, and was marketed as using unleaded, but when you read the towing section,they recommend that you use premium fuel when towing in order to realize five more horsepower. Others may want to check their manual to see if they can get a boost in a similar manner; I assume engines that can benefit from premium but can run on regular are marketed as using unleaded so as to appeal to folks who want lower fuel costs for everyday use. Not sure how much five horsepower will help, but it can't hurt. Unfortunately, that was going to be our tow vehicle, but after reading the postings on this site I realize that a 3,500 towing capability simply is not enough for what we plan on getting. Now to look for a tow vehicle.
[quote source="/post/3509/thread" timestamp="1410394380" author="@farmboy"]My 1999 Honda Odyssey runs on unleaded, and was marketed as using unleaded, but when you read the towing section,they recommend that you use premium fuel when towing in order to realize five more horsepower. Others may want to check their manual to see if they can get a boost in a similar manner; I assume engines that can benefit from premium but can run on regular are marketed as using unleaded so as to appeal to folks who want lower fuel costs for everyday use. Not sure how much five horsepower will help, but it can't hurt. Unfortunately, that was going to be our tow vehicle, but after reading the postings on this site I realize that a 3,500 towing capability simply is not enough for what we plan on getting. Now to look for a tow vehicle. [/quote][font size="3"]Most newer cars are designed to run on 87 octane unleaded gas. "Regular" gas is 87 octane and unleaded. "Premium" gas is also unleaded, but 91-93 octane. High performance engines with a high compression ratios require 91-93 octane unleaded gas. All auto gas sold in the US today is unleaded, but at varying octane values. For towing, many manufacturers suggest "premium" gas, but it is all unleaded. My personal experience with a 2010 3.5L Honda Pilot yielded 2-3 MPG increase when towing using 91-93 octane premium gas. If you can find it, ethanol free gas will further improve engine performance and MPG, but it is also unleaded. Do not confuse leaded/unleaded with premium/regular. They are not the same.
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I intended to say regular, not unleaded. My mistake. Long day. I use regular most of the time.
2014 ridgeline pulling a 14dbs, back from a local park, about 40 m away, and 1000' higher in elevation. All 4 lane, non interstate and low traffic volume, I got a whopping 17 mpg by the trucks computer. Going up I got just a bit over 11.
Just got back from a 5,000 mile trip from Florida to the Grand Canyon and then to Moab, Utah. The Ram 1500 did a great job towing the 21BHS and we averaged about 11 MPG for the trip, including some pretty steep grades.
That's a good average. How fast were you pulling, and did you have the truck loaded heavy or the camper loaded heavy or both?
[quote source="/post/3875/thread" timestamp="1411842350" author="@woody"]That's a good average. How fast were you pulling, and did you have the truck loaded heavy or the camper loaded heavy or both?[/quote]Truck was just my wife and I along with some minor stuff. Trailer was packed for two weeks, but I would estimate around 4300 pounds. Tried to maintain 65 MPH during the drives (almost all Interstate).
So I've noticed that some semi truck are now using using wind deflectors on the rear of the trailer to break the vacuum that's created as it moves through the air. Reducing that vacuum effect to improve gas mileage is also the principle behind the squishing of the rear areas on current SUVs. So, the much lower gas mileage towing an RV is not all frontal area drag; it is also overcoming the aerodynamic drag of the vacuum which may be 25% or more of the total drag from the trailer. There are some solutions being considered, but it would good if someone had an aftermarket product for this. I haven't seen any yet that are readily available.
http://spinoff.nasa.gov/Spinoff2008/t_3.html
My Silverado 5.3L with 5 speed manual will deliver 21.5 mpg at 50 mph unloaded. Delivers 19 mpg overall.
Recent 1200 mile tow, low of 13.2 to a high of 15.2 mpg. Most of the towing was at 60 mph.
Averaged 14.3 mpg going from Chicago to Louisville, mostly interstates, mostly 55 mph. Towing a custom 2014 Camplite 21-BHS with a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, 3.7L engine, rear wheel drive, few options added in order to maximize towing experience.
That's pretty impressive with a 21' trailer.
I really think the difference between 55 mph and 65 mph has a huge impact on fuel economy especially while towing.
Quote from: @mitch" source="/post/5612/thread" timestamp="1419013406I really think the difference between 55 mph and 65 mph has a huge impact on fuel economy especially while towing.
There's about 40% more air resistance at 65 vs 55, which is the biggest factor while towing.
We have a boat with trailer close to the ready to camp weight of the CampLite 11, 1950lbs.
Poughkeepsie NY to CLT:
Towing the low profile boat with our 2003 2.4L 4 cylinder Tacoma, 20MPG @ 65MPH.
SC flat lands:
CampLite 11 with our Tacoma, 17MPG @ 55MPH.
Not enough HP to maintain 65MPH on grades to test MPG with Tacoma
SC flat lands:
Towing the CampLite 11 with a 2013 4.0L Frontier 16MPG @ 55MPH.
CampLite 11 with the Frontier 14MPG @ 65MPH
Have not checked MPG towing the boat with the Frontier.
My 2014 supercharged 4X4 Tacoma Double Cab gets about 12-13 mpg pulling at 60 - 65 on flat ground.
Quote from: @tlbones" source="/post/3126/thread" timestamp="1409510545Nissan Frontier V6 4x4 pulling a CL 16DB It sounds I'm right in the ballpark about 12-13MPG. I probably could do 1-2 MPG better, but I have aggressive larger AT tires on the pickup.
Are you driving with the cruise control on? I have a 2009 Honda odessey and I average 20mpg, however I usually drive slower (60 ish) and never use the cruise control. I always try to drive the van to keep it in fifth gear, my highest gear. So, sometimes I'm going pretty fast down the hills to get up the next one without the van having to shift to fourth and third. When I use the cruise control mpg takes a dip down in the 16s and 17s. If I'm not towing 25 mpg is a good highway average.
Ignore last post quoted wrong fellow.
[quote source="/post/5843/thread" timestamp="1420429318" author="@kybrowns"][quote source="/post/3126/thread" timestamp="1409510545" author="@tlbones"]Nissan Frontier V6 4x4 pulling a CL 16DB It sounds I'm right in the ballpark about 12-13MPG. I probably could do 1-2 MPG better, but I have aggressive larger AT tires on the pickup. [/quote]
Are you driving with the cruise control on? I have a 2009 Honda odessey and I average 20mpg, however I usually drive slower (60 ish) and never use the cruise control. I always try to drive the van to keep it in fifth gear, my highest gear. So, sometimes I'm going pretty fast down the hills to get up the next one without the van having to shift to fourth and third. When I use the cruise control mpg takes a dip down in the 16s and 17s. If I'm not towing 25 mpg is a good highway average. [/quote][font size="3"]Four points for emphasis on mpg:
[ol type="decimal"][li]Cruise control will affect gas mileage. It accelerates hard going uphill to maintain the set speed.
[/li][li]The primary effect of a trailer on mpg is frontal cross sectional area. Therefore a collapsed QS will yield higher mpg than a CL.[/li][li]Lower speeds yield higher mpg. The difference between 70 and 60 mph is -36%.
[/li][li]For any given trailer and speed the mpg will be about the same regardless of TV. It just takes gas to tow that parachute.
[/li][/ol]
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[quote source="/post/5843/thread" timestamp="1420429318" author="@kybrowns"][quote source="/post/3126/thread" timestamp="1409510545" author="@tlbones"]Nissan Frontier V6 4x4 pulling a CL 16DB It sounds I'm right in the ballpark about 12-13MPG. I probably could do 1-2 MPG better, but I have aggressive larger AT tires on the pickup. [/quote]
Are you driving with the cruise control on? I have a 2009 Honda odessey and I average 20mpg, however I usually drive slower (60 ish) and never use the cruise control. I always try to drive the van to keep it in fifth gear, my highest gear. So, sometimes I'm going pretty fast down the hills to get up the next one without the van having to shift to fourth and third. When I use the cruise control mpg takes a dip down in the 16s and 17s. If I'm not towing 25 mpg is a good highway average. [/quote]Hi, If you are pulling a popup camper 20 mpg sounds reasonable. I'm pulling a camplite TT so I've got quite a bit more weight, wind resistance and 1 more axle than you. I seldom use cruise control even when not towing. Southeastern PA roads including interstates are just too congested and hilly for routine cruise control IMHO. Not towing I get 18-19 MPG. I usually turn overdrive off so I am sure that hits me some in the MPG, but I am told it is not recommended to tow in OD.
EDIT: Just read you said to ignore post... No problem!!
Is there any aftermarket devices to help increase aerodynamics of our TT Bricks? I see truckers with airdomes, airfoils etc....
I doubt if anything can be done about the rounded front of current LLs. But the back end might benefit from a spoiler. Airtabe, www.airtab.com, makes small vortex generators that can be mounted at the top rear of an RV. Whether they do any good at highway speeds is questionable.
David
I think there may be some important benefit to improving aerodynamics of the rear. i don't know how to do it, but as I've posted earlier, the reason trucks and cars are going to different aerodynamics in the rear is to reduce the "vacuum" and improve mpg. Frontal area is a determining factor, but again, as we have seen with car and truck frontal design, the aerodynamic effects on mpg come from far more than just square footage. Further, cars and SUVs are adding under-body panels everywhere these days to improve air flow and reduce increase mpg. All in all, i'm guessing we could see real-world mpg improvements with aerodynamic add-ons in the back and underneath.
Quote from: @shovelhead" source="/post/5854/thread" timestamp="1420558752Is there any aftermarket devices to help increase aerodynamics of our TT Bricks? I see truckers with airdomes, airfoils etc....
My bad I was posting use iPhone and my thumbs are sometimes bigger than the buttons. Yes I'm pulling a 10.0. I was trying to quote a guy pulling the same thing with a Honda also.
Quote from: @kybrowns" source="/post/5874/thread" timestamp="1420597454[quote source="/post/5854/thread" timestamp="1420558752" author="@shovelhead"]Is there any aftermarket devices to help increase aerodynamics of our TT Bricks? I see truckers with airdomes, airfoils etc....
My bad I was posting use iPhone and my thumbs are sometimes bigger than the buttons. Yes I'm pulling a 10.0. I was trying to quote a guy pulling the same thing with a Honda also. [/quote]
Quoted wrong guy again. I quit. I'll just read from now on. Haha
Blame it on brain freeze - traveling to finger freeze. I had trouble just typing this!
recently came back from a 2600 mile trip from NE Ohio to florida......with my 2014 Ram Diesel 1500, going 65-70 mph I easily got 11-12 mpg......no issues with towing my Axxess 8.5 x22 toy hauler....with two large motorcycles in it, and all the gear we brought. the truck towed like it had nothing behind it!!
Recent FL trip gave between 11.5 and 13.5 mpg. We limited ourselves to 55 mph.
Best tank was the first one - losing about 2,000' in altitude coming out of the mountains may have helped!
I still haunt these forums even though I did not end up purchasing a LL like I had hoped. So, only for the purpose of adding another benchmark for popups and their MPG difference, I now have a 3124KD Trailmanor that weighs around 4300 pounds loaded. I get between 15-16.5 mpg @ 65 mph when towing using my Avalanche when my mileage is about 19 when I am not towing.
First trip, 130+ miles, 13.5 mpg averaged with a good mix of freeway, highway and city driving.
[quote timestamp="1422673253" source="/post/6316/thread" author="@funpilot"]I still haunt these forums even though I did not end up purchasing a LL like I had hoped. So, only for the purpose of adding another benchmark for popups and their MPG difference, I now have a 3124KD Trailmanor that weighs around 4300 pounds loaded. I get between 15-16.5 mpg @ 65 mph when towing using my Avalanche when my mileage is about 19 when I am not towing. [/quote]Glad to see you back. The mileage sounds about right considering the collapsed height. How do you like the trailer?
Well, it has come with its own challenges that look like they are almost done. They tried some new windows and they leaked. They are designed to be turned upside down so any way you install it there are "unused drains" at the top that they insert rubber plugs into. The plugs do not work so water leaks in. They replaced the windows with a slightly different version (supposedly tighter seals), and still leaked. I then sealed the plugs with 3M 4000 UV, and that seems to have done the trick. To be on the safe side, they have authorized me to get all the windows and the roof resealed locally. When I took it back to the factory (only 10 hours away from me), they also corrected a wiring problem on a new refrigerator I asked them to install so was a first time thing for them, they corrected some minor cosmetic issues, and the slide out motor needed to be adjusted. So, if the leaks are fixed (has not rained here enough to fully test yet), then it is as good as it can get!! Key for me, although one could argue that the issues should not have been there in the first place, has been that they have not blinked once in addressing them.
As for the leaks, the way the Trailmanor is designed today, there is no wood where the windows are so it was just a nuisance (aluminum and foam). It is not wood free, nor is it as nice as a LL in my opinion, but it does have its pluses like the mpg and it tows like a dream. I have no problems opening and closing it. Takes about 2 minutes to pop it open, and then about 5 minutes to get the inside all done. When opened it is 31 feet long and when closed 24 feet long. Once it is all set up, it is quite nice inside. Kitchen counter space is more than I can use, storage is abundant, we have a king size bed in the back and a full size one if we convert the dinette. It will easily allow me to take my Alaskan malamute (my challenge with the LLs that ultimately got me to select the 28BHS model). Only real compromise is the bathroom. It has a cassette toilet and is small. Because it folds up, it cannot properly vent from a black tank, so they do not have them. My choice was a recirculating toilet or cassette, I took the cassette. Only real mod I am planning is to install the Truma AquaGo instant hot water heater. I have talked to several owners of it and they say it actually works (no flow issues or wide swings in temps).
The cassette toilet is what does me in. Otherwise I quite like the concept of these trailers.
FYI you can simulate rain quite effectively with a garden hose. It has the advantage over a natural rainstorm in that once you find a leak, you can make it stop raining.
[quote source="/post/6317/thread" timestamp="1422677059" author="@surfsup"]First trip, 130+ miles, 13.5 mpg averaged with a good mix of freeway, highway and city driving. [/quote]That's pretty impressive. What engine is in your F150?
Quote from: @djsamuel" source="/post/6451/thread" timestamp="1422890501[quote source="/post/6317/thread" timestamp="1422677059" author="@surfsup"]First trip, 130+ miles, 13.5 mpg averaged with a good mix of freeway, highway and city driving.
That's pretty impressive. What engine is in your F150?[/quote]
It's the 5.0 but keep in mind I'm not sure how the mileage will pan out on a real trip with the RV loaded, hitting serious hills, etc.
[quote source="/post/6453/thread" timestamp="1422891692" author="@surfsup"]
[quote source="/post/6451/thread" timestamp="1422890501" author="@djsamuel"]That's pretty impressive. What engine is in your F150?[/quote]It's the 5.0 but keep in mind I'm not sure how the mileage will pan out on a real trip with the RV loaded, hitting serious hills, etc. [/quote]Very true. Was curious if you had the EcoBoost. Some people take a hit towing with that engine, although FastEddie seems to be doing pretty good with his.
EcoBoost or 5.0, either would have been fine with me. My priorities were: crew cab, Lariat trim, tow package, clean, low miles.