Have you reached out to the factory directly on this unit? At least in the sales/build cycle (which I am still in), I have found them very responsive. I almost wonder if this unit was damaged in transit from the factory to you as the gaps/windows not level, and the other issues you raise might point to that. Much more knowledgeable forum participants than me may likely post their observations but I would not be happy at all if that was my experience. Based on what you have posted they all look like warranty repairs anyway.
I hope you are able to get this fixed to your satisfaction. We've been using our 21BHS for about 11 months now, and after some issues, it is a very reliable camper. I had some leaks due to poor caulking between the roof trim and the awning strip. I recaulked with Proflex RV, and that problem hasn't returned. I don't trust the tires, and in fact had one replaced under warranty due to a sidewall blemish that turned into a crack.
As far as the slideout leaks, was it raining when you pulled in the slideout? We had some water on the floor near our slideout after driving through the rain, but I had the slideout extended in the rain while loading the trailer. No leaking since then, but I supposed it is possible for some water the be forced through while driving if the slideout is not adjusted properly.
Once sorted out, they are good trailers, very solid. In addition, in the event of leaks, the amount of damage that can be done is far less than other brands of trailers.
BEst of luck.
Doug
[quote source="/post/2491/thread" timestamp="1407890758" author="Keith Kulm"][div][/div][font face="times new roman"]When you pay 3 times retail for a Camp Lite vs. a common travel trailer, you don't expect leaks! And, the issues we have seen (windows installed off level) are definitely factor quality issues. I have not contacted the factory direct; leaving that up to the selling dealer. Oh, additionally, the simulated wood trim around the slide out simply fell off after some humidity. It is apparently held on with poorly applied glue and double backed tape. As are the seat cushions, which didn't stay intact for even a day! I too, was impressed with the construction of the vehicle; but the proof of quality did not show in actual performance![/font][/quote]The trim issue is discussed in another thread. The poster said he preferred leaving it off. He is going to cover the black metal that is there with post cards of where he camps....
[quote source="/post/2495/thread" timestamp="1407892807" author="@funpilot"][quote source="/post/2491/thread" timestamp="1407890758" author="Keith Kulm"][div][/div][div][/div][font face="times new roman"]When you pay 3 times retail for a Camp Lite vs. a common travel trailer, you don't expect leaks! And, the issues we have seen (windows installed off level) are definitely factor quality issues. I have not contacted the factory direct; leaving that up to the selling dealer. Oh, additionally, the simulated wood trim around the slide out simply fell off after some humidity. It is apparently held on with poorly applied glue and double backed tape. As are the seat cushions, which didn't stay intact for even a day! I too, was impressed with the construction of the vehicle; but the proof of quality did not show in actual performance![/font][/quote]The trim issue is discussed in another thread. The poster said he preferred leaving it off. He is going to cover the black metal that is there with post cards of where he camps....
[/quote][p]Well, yeah. But that's kinda beside the point. OP has a litany of minor quality issues that aren't all that hard for the factory to get right. Clear sign to me of a rushed production line that places more importance on throughput than quality. [/p][p]
[/p][p]Mind you, I thing these are all easily addressed and shouldn't be over-reacted to.[/p][p]
[/p][p]For my part, I would say frustration is warranted, but not cause for any serious buyer's remorse.[/p][p]
[/p][p]We rented an R-Pod, less than 6 months old. Yeah, rental unit and all that, but the interior was particle board and every. single. screw. had pulled out.[/p][p]
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The biggest item in that list is the installation of the windows and the door. The leaking and the fact that they were not installed correctly really indicate a quality problem. I haven't seen anybody complaining about something like this, which is a concern because that means it made it through being inspected. That should have been caught prior to leaving the factory.
I'm in the early stages of getting a customized unit as well. Thanks much for letting us all know - when we go through our inspection we will certainly be looking closely at the items you called out. Any chance you can get some photos of the gaps and offlevel and other issues posted here for us? Definitely reach out to the factory and let us know how it goes
Quote from: Keith Kulm" source="/post/2552/thread" timestamp="1407945697I did find at least one picture taken shortly after we bought it, which may show how the windows are off level. Not sure how to post it here.
As a guest it wont allow you to directly post a picture. You can create a member account to post directly, or post a link to an external host service like flickr, facebook, etc.
-Sean
LOL....I do not think that is the case. Sean will most likely reach out to you to help resolve this.
If you want to send me your details to livinliteforum@gmail.com along with a screenshot of the error its giving I'll be happy to see what I can do.
-Sean
I got my registration issue cleared up. I am now idahover.
[quote source="/post/2581/thread" timestamp="1407963406" author="@idahover"]I got my registration issue cleared up. I am now idahover.[/quote]I tried to add a photo, but the attachment limit is 1 MB. I doubt if any photo is that small.
[quote source="/post/2584/thread" timestamp="1407964246" author="@idahover"][quote source="/post/2581/thread" timestamp="1407963406" author="@idahover"]I got my registration issue cleared up. I am now idahover.[/quote]I tried to add a photo, but the attachment limit is 1 MB. I doubt if any photo is that small.[/quote][font size="3"]Large photos can be scaled using MS Paint or equivalent applications. Very good photos at 640x480 pixels can be uploaded. The size will be less than 250MB. [/font]
We picked up our special order 14DBS in mid June and have taken two weekend trips since. No leakage. Had to replace the front door lock set; there is one screw that sticks when opening/closing the left most kitchen cabinet and the laminate on the door is bubbling some. Nothing like what idahover describes. I have my fingers crossed for nothing big to crop up.
We just heard from our dealer (Access RV) who said that the Livinlite factory has denied our claim to rectify the windows being installed off level. This makes no sense to me; since, if we would have noted them when we picked it up at the dealer, and before we wrote them the check, it would have been fixed or replaced! What has changed; they have the money in the bank?
I post my photos to Flickr via iPhoto, then choose a browser-friendly size to link to.
I'd like to see a photo of your windows.
If you can't make it work, email me a copy and I'll try to post it to this thread. fasteddieb@mac.com
Thank you. The photo(s) I have are from a distance, and general. When I get back to Salt Lake to pick up our camper, I will take detailed photos of the areas of complaint and try to get them posted. Since LivinLite has denied a warranty claim on the off-level windows, I will need those type of photos anyway for documentation to send to the Good Sam Advisor, and every other complaint column I can think of; in addition to possible legal action through the Federal Lemon Law. Further, I have now been without the use of our new camper for nearly 4 weeks during the peak summer travel season! How much would that equate to in rental costs?!
idahover's photos:
[img src="https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3872/14775195617_faaa775f17_c.jpg"]
[img src="https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5551/14775200117_85cf17e31f_c.jpg"]
Thank-you, fasteddieb! Note, in the first photo, the skin line directly below the window. It is level/parallel with the bottom of the trailer. Note too, how the window, is slanted down towards the aft end. It measures about 1/2" difference from front to back vs. the parallel line of the skin line below it and the bottom of the trailer. The other side (not pictured) is even more ascew. Note also, on the first picture, that when retracted, the awning vertical bar is mounted directly against the plastic window. Vibrations, while in transit, nearly destroyed that window. If you are buying a new one; make sure there are shims/spacers at the top and bottom of the awning brackets so it doesn't contact the window! Further, not mentioned in my first post, but I'm reminded of it now seeing these pictures: on our first day of camping, I extended the awing correctly full out, with one side slightly down for run off. The top of the entry door must had had some burrs on it, left by the factory, because when the door was opened, the top of it contacted the awning during it's swing out, of course. And it scratched several small holes through the awning fabric! This problem is a design issue, and should be corrected at the factory. (Another issue, of course, which warranty will be denied!). Once I retrieve it from the dealer, I will post more photos and quality caution issues you should look for when taking delivery of a trailer from LivinLite!
[quote source="/post/2469/thread" timestamp="1407873033" author="@funpilot"]Have you reached out to the factory directly on this unit? At least in the sales/build cycle (which I am still in), I have found them very responsive. I almost wonder if this unit was damaged in transit from the factory to you as the gaps/windows not level, and the other issues you raise might point to that. Much more knowledgeable forum participants than me may likely post their observations but I would not be happy at all if that was my experience. Based on what you have posted they all look like warranty repairs anyway. [/quote]I have now contacted the factory on their website and their communication form on two occasions. They have not responded to either of my contacts.
I call them. I have never used the website to contact them.
[quote source="/post/2774/thread" timestamp="1408466811" author="@idahover"]Thank-you, fasteddieb! Note, in the first photo, the skin line directly below the window. It is level/parallel with the bottom of the trailer. Note too, how the window, is slanted down towards the aft end. It measures about 1/2" difference from front to back vs. the parallel line of the skin line below it and the bottom of the trailer. The other side (not pictured) is even more ascew. Note also, on the first picture, that when retracted, the awning vertical bar is mounted directly against the plastic window. Vibrations, while in transit, nearly destroyed that window. If you are buying a new one; make sure there are shims/spacers at the top and bottom of the awning brackets so it doesn't contact the window! Further, not mentioned in my first post, but I'm reminded of it now seeing these pictures: on our first day of camping, I extended the awing correctly full out, with one side slightly down for run off. The top of the entry door must had had some burrs on it, left by the factory, because when the door was opened, the top of it contacted the awning during it's swing out, of course. And it scratched several small holes through the awning fabric! This problem is a design issue, and should be corrected at the factory. (Another issue, of course, which warranty will be denied!). Once I retrieve it from the dealer, I will post more photos and quality caution issues you should look for when taking delivery of a trailer from LivinLite![/quote][p]So, I don't mean to contradict you...well, I guess I do. But I mean well, really. I'm trying to help. So I'm gonna question you a little.[/p][p]
[/p][p]On our 2014 14 DBS, when the awning is fully extended, the door does not contact the awning. So this isn't a matter of whether there were burrs on the door frame so much as whether you actually had it fully extended, or whether the position of the awning was incorrect allowing contact. In the pictures, the awning is NOT fully extended.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Now, we already know there are problems with how your door was mounted, due to the gaps and leaks. No question. So you have an issue, there. And we know about the window being out of square to the skin (more on that later). And we know something is wrong with the awning, window, or both, as that window ranges from totally destroyed to nearly destroyed. My own window, I only noticed the placement of the awning strut when I tried to open it with the awning in the travel position. There is, and should be, no contact. So you surely have some sort of issue, even if the contact only creates a rubbing and scratching on the window surface. That should not be.[/p][p]
[/p][p]As far as the window goes, even on a new house the ceilings will not be completely level, nor the floors. Can't be helped, even by Mike Holmes. And they won't be perfectly parallel (i.e. square, not "a square") . When installing a window, they'll go with level, so measuring from either corner to the ceiling or the floor will vary. Carpenters, tile guys, and wallpaper guys deal with this all the time and have to pick which direction to hide the error in. Maybe the factory measured off the roof line ? I dunno. They would have had to do this for the skin, too, as well as the window. Maybe one guy went with the bottom frame and the window guy went with the roof frame ? That would explain what you describe.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Anyway, I don't know what happened with your window. But 1/2" is...1/2". I'd be more worried about the window leaking than it being out of square to the frame, which itself is not going to be square. If the window leaks, you have a beef. If it doesn't...not so much, in my view.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Oh, and, nice looking rig. Hope you get the kinks worked out.[/p][p]
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[font size="3"]I'll jump in here with a few comments. I generally agree with pinstriper. The awning in the picture is not fully extended and will rub on the door. If it is fully extended on both sides the door should not rub. If you want to drop one side to facilitate water runoff it must be dropped on the side away from the door.
Sometimes, when the awning is fully retracted, the door may rub on it. This can be cured by leaving the vertical supports slightly extended before rolling up the awning. Usually one or two holes from the bottom end is sufficient. There are small pins on each support to set the closed position. They can be moved to adjust the height of the retracted awning and eliminate the door rub.
I cannot see the window alignment issue in the pictures, but something is wrong with the picture of the back end of the trailer. Looks like a double exposure of the refrigerator vents. Don't know where that comes from??[/font]
[quote source="/post/2795/thread" timestamp="1408504803" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]I'll jump in here with a few comments. I generally agree with pinstriper. The awning in the picture is not fully extended and will rub on the door. If it is fully extended on both sides the door should not rub. If you want to drop one side to facilitate water runoff it must be dropped on the side away from the door.
Sometimes, when the awning is fully retracted, the door may rub on it. This can be cured by leaving the vertical supports slightly extended before rolling up the awning. Usually one or two holes from the bottom end is sufficient. There are small pins on each support to set the closed position. They can be moved to adjust the height of the retracted awning and eliminate the door rub.
I cannot see the window alignment issue in the pictures, but something is wrong with the picture of the back end of the trailer. Looks like a double exposure of the refrigerator vents. Don't know where that comes from??[/font][/quote][p]The issue with the picture appears to just be the reflection of the structure behind the camper. The vents themselves look fine here.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Looking at the windows, that would drive me nuts. However, as the dealer tried to realign the windows? There may be enough slop in the opening to allow the window to be properly aligned. That sure should have been something easy enough to spot before shipping. I agree if it is not leaking it is not a huge problem, but what if someone purchased a car with a body panel out of alignment like that?[/p][p]
[/p][p]I too am wondering how far the awning is opened. If it was like the picture, then there would be no way to avoid the door hitting the awning. Charlie, have you seen a closed awning hit the door? Mine doesn't come close when closed. The placement of the awning in relation to the window just seems like a poor design, spacers or not. I guess they had no choice given the size of the camper, but the original poster definitely has a beef there with it hitting the window. [/p][p]
[/p][p]Best of luck getting these issues corrected. [/p][p]
[/p]
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[img style="djsamuel Avatar" src="http://s10398.storage.proboards.com/5560398/a/HCoN_oRwu5DgoVYSsaYn.png"][/div][/div][quote source="/post/2796/thread" timestamp="1408529292" author="@djsamuel"][p]The issue with the picture appears to just be the reflection of the structure behind the camper. The vents themselves look fine here. [font color="e6194a" size="3"]Yes, I see that now. I missed the fact that the fridge is actually on that rear wall in that model.
[/font][/p][p]
[/p][p]Charlie, have you seen a closed awning hit the door? Mine doesn't come close when closed. [font color="e6194a" size="3"]I don't think it did when I picked it up, but I noticed it after my first outing using the awning. The door lightly rubbed the awning material roll. After some thought I realized the roll must have been higher at first and I found the vertical supports could be lengthened by just moving them up one hole. The lock mechanisms still engage properly. Problem solved. Someday I'll move the stop pins up, but it's not high on the priority list.[/font][/p][p]
[/p][p]The placement of the awning in relation to the window just seems like a poor design, spacers or not. I guess they had no choice given the size of the camper, but the original poster definitely has a beef there with it hitting the window. [font color="e6194a" size="3"]The front awning pole on the 21RBS covers the window, but does not hit it. I remember this "feature" from the original LL videos. I have seen some recent dealer pictures that suggest LL has moved the whole awning rearward to address this problem on some models.
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I think they must have been working with pre-existing/stock awning lengths, or perhaps decided it looked odd to not have the awning go the full length of the straight portion of the trailer body. But really, a foot or so extra awning length is a small sacrifice for the ability to open a window without opening the awning, not to mention the possibility of picking up scratches or other damage.
Perhaps they've had enough complaints/seen the light/finally convinced the supplier to provide the length they needed ?
Of course the awning is not fully extended in the photo shown. (Making room for my truck in the drive way). But, the top of the door contacts the awning when it is fully extended with the right side slightly lowered. If the awning went the length of the camper, the vertical bar would cover the outside storage door, and that wouldn't be good. They need to put a roller on the top of the door like some older trailers I've seen years ago. And, regarding the windows being not level. Would you accept that? Do you think I'll be able to resell it that way? Yeah, I don't know why Livinlite has a contact form on their website, but never respond! But, I do love the way my rig looks. I generally got 13.3 mpg with the hemi. It doesn't even know the camper is behind it! We're anxious to get the camper back from the dealer; even with windows being off level. At least we could take a couple of trips before winter sets in while waiting for some closure!
I honestly don't know if my windows are square to the frame or not. I haven't noticed anything awry. Perhaps I'll go measure.
I AM quite gratified that there haven't been any leaks. Wish it were this way for you.