[font size="1"]OK now - purchased new 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee with factory-installed tow package , 4 X 2, 3.7 L, tow capacity 6,500 lbs according to the plate on the driver door. This is going to tow my custom Camplite 21-BHS which I expect to take delivery about the middle of next month.
Several employees at the Jeep dealer asked me about what I would tow and if it had 2 axles - yes. They told me that if I had WDH and anti-sway installed, it would defeat the technology built into my Jeep. They asked wasn't the technology the reason to choose a Jeep. 2 of these fellows use their Jeeps as tow vehicles.
Does anyone here have experience towing with the new Jeep with the enhanced technology?
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I'm pretty much a newbie on these matters, but I'll take a stab.
Our 2011 Ford Flex has built-in sway control. It measures body roll and if it senses sway it automatically reduces power and/or brakes one or more wheels to bring it under control.
That may reduce the need for add'l sway control, but as insurance we added a basic Husky sway control anyway.
But the weight distribution seems more like basic physics. Weight bearing down on the trailer ball would seemingly have to leverage the front wheels into a lighter condition, using the tow vehicle's rear wheels as a pivot point. I can see rear suspension automatically keeping the car level, via air suspension or the like, but if I'm reasoning through this properly the front end would still be "light".
As a data point, our Flex has a maximum tow capacity of 2,000 lbs unless a W/D hitch is utilized, wherein it goes up to 4,500 lbs. I'd check to see if your Jeep has a similar requirement.
On the AirForums site, Andy at CanAm up in Canada is highly respected in these matters and I found him very willing to discuss things like this. A call to him with this question might be in order.
Interesting articles by him here: [a href="http://www.canamrv.ca/hitch-hints"]http://www.canamrv.ca/hitch-hints[/a]
I agree with Fasteddie on the sway control. The Grand Cherokee probably has the built in control. But, if the external sway control reduces sway, the built in control will only react to any sway that still results, which based on my experience towing our 21BHS, will be minimal. It also may have the air bag suspension that automatically levels the vehicle under load. It could be the workers are thinking of the WDH as only leveling the vehicle, not redistributing the weight. I think they are not correct. The WDH will help and the air bag suspension will be a help as well. I don't think one will interfere with the other.
I would take the recommendation of two dealer employees with a big grain of salt. Listen to what the manufacturer says instead.
And I agree with the other two posters- the Grand Cherokee probably has automatic leveling and dynamic sway control, neither of which does anything about weight distribution.
The 21BHS probably has a hitch weight of 350 lbs or so fully loaded with gear and water. That may be an acceptable load on your hitch without weight distribution. Hook it up, take it for a ride and see how it handles. If the front end feels light, then consider a WDH. FWIW we try to minimize gear in the back of the SUV to stay within its payload limit. Heavy gear in the back in addition to hitch weight will also contribute to front end lightness.
FWIW I don't use a WDH on my 2013 Pathfinder with a tow limit of 5,000 lbs towing a 16TBS. It sounds like your TV has more towing capacity and probably more payload capability. So it will probably be fine towing the 21BHS with no WDH.
David
The actual tongue weight of the 21 bhs with dual propane tanks, battery and a total camper weight (with gear and stuff) of 4,200 lbs is 575 lbs. This is based on my camper that I just had on the truck scale.
I have a 2012 Ford Explorer front wheel drive that is rated to tow 5,000 lbs with a tongue weight of 500 lbs and it does not tow well, too much weight on rear wheels. I purchased the Andersen wd hitch, it does not transfer enough weight and I had sway in the TV that I did not have before using the Andersen wd hitch, really not sure what is happening.
Thanks for this info on tongue weight. 12% - 15% of your trailer loaded weight runs between 504 - 630 lbs, so you are where you should be, although you could redistribute the weight to make the tongue weight closer to 12%.
Question: were you able to weigh the right axle and the left axle separately? You can be well within your weight limits, but if there is a difference between the weight on the right and the weight on the left, it can affect the handling.
I'm no expert on towing but here's a thought. You are over the tongue weight of the TV so that would seems the likely culprit of why it doesn't tow well to begin with, when you add the WDH you may shift the weight around but you may also be pushing to much weight on the trailer axle. If your avatar is the TV and Trailer in question it looks like there is a bit of upwards arch at the hitch point. The picture is small so I could be off here but you really want a bit of downward arch. I think this upward arch could be the reason you are now getting some sway.
575 lbs of tongue weight for a "Livin Lite" 4,200 lb trailer just seems too much. That much tongue weight will exceed the available payload (GVW-curb weight-passengers-fuel-gear) on all but the biggest SUVs and full size pickups. And even with one of those you don't have much margin. Livin Lite trailers are marketed as being towable by mid size SUVs and small pickups. One with a 575 lb tongue weight sure isn't.
More tongue weight certainly helps sway, but when too much causes the TV's suspension to be overloaded or not enough weight on the front wheels then I would look at another solution. I would try to get the tongue weight down to 10% of the trailer's weight or 420 lbs.
Losing more than 100 lbs won't be easy. The dual LPG cylinders contribute about 1/3 of that. A pass through compartment full of heavy gear probably constitutes the rest.
And as a point of reference, my 16TBS as delivered with no fluids (except LPG)or gear had a tongue weight of 250 lbs. It now is more like 300 lbs mostly due to gear in the pass through compartment. I haven't weighed the trailer, but I am guessing it is about 3,500 lbs.
Livin Lite lists the dry tongue weight at 250 lbs on a 3,499 lb trailer for the 21BHS. It couldn't have been anywhere near that as delivered even considering dual LPG tanks if it is now 575 lbs.
David
No, I was not able to weigh the right side and left side separately. The picture is my setup but this is before I installed the wd hitch. I guess I should remove the items in the pass thru compartment and then weigh the tongue. I only keep a 9x12 rug, 4 foldable cloth chairs and some other misc stuff which I hope is only about 50 lbs in total.
What is the tongue weight of your 21bhs and 21rb?
[quote source="/post/2541/thread" timestamp="1407937257" author="@david"]575 lbs of tongue weight for a "Livin Lite" 4,200 lb trailer just seems too much. That much tongue weight will exceed the available payload (GVW-curb weight-passengers-fuel-gear) on all but the biggest SUVs and full size pickups. And even with one of those you don't have much margin. Livin Lite trailers are marketed as being towable by mid size SUVs and small pickups. One with a 575 lb tongue weight sure isn't.
[/quote]I partly agree with you, but keep in mind two things:
1- comparable trailers from other manufacturers list 500+ lbs for the "dry" weight... just imagine what they will actually be once loaded. In this case lightness is relative.
2- you shouldn't tow a 24' trailer with a small vehicle. Even if they could magically make it 300lbs tongue weight there are other factors involved with a 24' trailer that make it unwise to tow with smaller vehicles.
I couldn't agree more. That is why I am very happy that we bought the 16TBS although we started with the 21 in mind. And FWIW for a couple the 16TBS is perfect. I have to hand it to Dave of D&H RV for gently steering us in that direction and making it possible with a dinnete for sofa swap!!
David
I forgot to respond to the original issue: I think the Jeep dealer's statement is bogus. Most modern vehicles have some kind of electronic traction/stability system that uses the brakes and power transfer. Vehicles with "eletronic sway control" just have a little bit of extra programming that senses for the conditions specific to sway. They're all just trying to make the vehicle's motion match the input of the driver. These systems only come into play when things get bad. Even medium sway won't activate the electronic sway control. And if it does it will probably beep and blink at you. The physical sway control will keep it from ever getting to that point.