So if the TV has a 180 amp alternator how is the best way to get power to the trailer? This seems like a pretty good sized alternator.
How much does/can the 7 way carry? Would an additional wire and connecter like an "Anderson" be able to put more amps to the charger and there by charging the battery bank faster?
I saw this product called an "ArkPak" that has Anderson connections(nothing to do with the Anderson hitch). I think sometimes we would park the trailer and go off and do thing during the day and if the vehicle is running anyway down the road the incremental fuel use would be very low.
I am particularly thinking about in some Yellowstone and other campgrounds where no generators are allowed and you do travel up and down the roads during the day. Or if you are in full shade in the campground.
I think I remember that you can charge at 1/3 the capacity per hour. I am not sure if this was for wet or AGM. And I think that lithium can take a lot more per hour, maybe even the capacity of the battery in one hour. Lithium are still expensive but if you can dump a lot of juice into the battery it might be easier than bringing a small generator.
Could you mount the ArkPak or similar set up in the TV and then just run a wire to the trailer's charger when you get back to camp. Maybe not the most efficient but seems quick and easy.
The ArkPak seems like it could be very versatile. If you put a lithium battery in there it would not be "too" heavy and could store a lot of energy while chargeing relatively quick.
Maybe there is another set up that would be better or easier or efficient but I do not have any experience with house batteries. I like the idea of having options and alternatives instead of being stuck. My parents both have CPAP machines and will use this trailer a lot so I am trying to plan ahead while not actually have ever sleept in a trailer myself.
https://www.arkportablepower.com/arkpak
In-Vehicle recharging:
There are two ways you can recharge your ArkPak in your vehicle:
(a) Simply by plugging it into the 12V socket in your vehicle, via the optional DC-DC car charger adaptor (sold separately) – giving you 6 amps of charge per driving hour.
(b) Via the ArkPak's built-in 50 amp Anderson Plug, giving you a potential 50amp charge per hour directly off your vehicle's alternator.
I believe the 7-way is rated for 35 amps, but my guess is that they put a 30amp fuse on there (check your specific vehicle). Voltage drop over the length of the load wire will reduce that rate pretty significantly though. The limitation won't be the connector, it will probably be the gauge of the wire used.
This is an interesting idea. You're basically storing charge while driving around away from the trailer and then adding it back later, right? I think the ArkPak is overkill unless you need the inverter. It would probably be cheaper and easier to just charge a second battery in the TV while you're driving and then swap it with the one on the trailer. I'll need to think about this one a bit more... I might do something similar myself.
I did something similar to this in my old Jeep when I was doing some car camping with minimal gear. I had a second battery wired into my regular electrical system. While I was driving around I could engage the circuit to top off the battery. Then while back at camp I could either run my 12v gear directly off the second battery, or 120v gear off a small inverter I had. I never took measurements (wish I had) but since I only needed to charge it while I was already running the Jeep I never noticed a spike in fuel consumption.
I think the ArkPak's main advantage is the fact that everything is already bundled. However its only an advantage if you need the power to be self contained. If you are simply needing to power your rig then there is no need for the extras.
I bet you could put something together with a tool box and a couple of sealed batteries that better fits your needs. If you are using the $400 price point of the ArkPak I would think you could put it together for half the cost. I bet a couple of golf cart batteries wired up inside the box with a couple of quick connect fittings and you'd be good to go. The gauge of the wire would still be a factor though.
[font size="3"][font face="arial"]I would agree the ArkPak is too much fluff for camping folks. If you're going to haul a battery with you just carry the battery. Hook it up in parallel with the TV battery through a relay (solenoid) activated from the ignition switch. Then when back at the campsite move the battery to the camper or hook it up with jumper cables. If you go with a pair of GC2 golfers you'll never be without juice. Get a small inverter if you really need low power 120VAC. 100-200 watt inverters are cheap.
One note on wire size. The wire size from the TV battery to the aux battery makes a HUGE difference in the charging current. The TV's electrical system will limit the voltage to 13.2-14+ depending on the charge of the TV battery and the age of the TV. My 2013 Tacoma with a 130 Amp alternator puts 13.2 volts on the battery a few minutes after starting. This is all in an effort to squeeze another 0.001 mpg for EPA. Dropping this by 0.5-1 volts through wire to the aux battery reduces the charge to a trickle. That's why the usual #10 wire to the Bergman becomes nothing more than a maintainer. I measure more than a 10 Amp difference going from cheap #8 gauge jumpers to better #6 gauge cables, both 12 feet long. So, when hooking up the battery in parallel with the TV battery I recommend #6 gauge minimum. Four gauge is better and 2 gauge isn't overkill. The connection to the railer isn't as important because the loads are not as demanding unless you have a big inverter on board.
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Yes, storing a charge. Pretty much charging the trailer battery with the battery in the back of the TV. Could you just run them in parallel while the vehicle is there? I was thinking more like a fuel can that you could dump when ever the car gets back to camp. I would want to not completely drain the battery in the back of the TV [font size="2"]but transfer a good bit of charge from the TV battery to [/font]the[font size="2"] trailer so when we drove we could fill the battery back up. Like having a battery powered battery charger that stayed in the TV. I would not think this would be the most effective way but hooking up a wire and hitting a switch would be quick and easy. Swapping the whole battery be simple but a pain in the but for my parents. A good sized battery is easy 60 lbs. I was thinking more like plugs or connectors.
Also if you ran a heavy wire separate from the 7 way and into a larger battery charger say 50 or 60 amp, would the alternator tell the engine to increase rpm while in neutral at idle? Then at least when you were trailering you could top off rather quickly.
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Thanks Charlie, So labor is the same time for the most part so use the #2 with the appropriate connection between the TV and TT. Would the wires go right from one battery to the other? Or to the battery charger on the TT? If you have 2 batteries on the TT would that be too much drain?
[font size="3"][font face="arial"]The best connection is direct battery to battery with as big and short a cable as you can work with, both to the TV battery and the TT battery. If using jumper cables the labor is the same so go with #2. If permanently installing in a vehicle it gets harder because big wire is harder to work with. Either way you must disconnect the aux battery from the TV while you are camping to avoid running down the TV starting battery overnight. Bad experience next morning if the TV won't start![/font][/font]
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No problem with multiple batteries as long as you connect to corresponding 12 volt points. [/font][/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"]
Of course the best set up would be two GC2 golfers installed under the hood with a relay and big wire. Then a quick disconnect connector mounted in the grill with #6 or #8 for connecting to the TT battery. But that requires room under the hood - - - a thing of the past on newer vehicles :'(
One caution: If you do provide a semi-permanent connection to allow charging the aux battery while driving be sure to provide a fuse inline very close to the TV battery. About 50 Amps should be good. An accidental short with big wire across a car battery can cause lots of fire.
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Maybe something using the below? battery box, quick connects, 2 gauge wire, battery isolator,
http://www.amazon.com/MinnKota-Trolling-Motor-Power-Center/dp/B001PTHKMG/ref=pd_sbs_auto_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=09QXH6440M9EN7RKSYW1
http://www.amazon.com/Tuff-Stuff-Winch-Quick-Connector/dp/B002CEPI5O
http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Dual-Battery-140A-Isolator/dp/B00400IYTK/ref=sr_1_19?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1403060784&sr=1-19&keywords=Amp+Battery+Isolator
http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-PROP2G20BK-2-Gauge-Ultra-Flexible/dp/B004FOSG08/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1403059668&sr=1-2&keywords=2+gauge+wire
Side note, its not going to be an immediate transfer of energy. If you are expecting to charge a battery while driving then dump it to the TT its not going to happen the way it seems like you are expecting. I think of it like two barrels of water sitting next to each other, where one is full and the other is nearly empty. When connected the full barrel will eventually fill the nearly empty barrel until they are at an equal level.
I think with the links you posted are basically what I was thinking. When its all said and done you would have a portable power source that can be used in a variety of situations. Add a small inverter to the side with some Velcro and you could even use it independently for lighting or a radio when an extension cord isn't an option.
Thanks Sean,
Something like this seams like a good compromise
http://store.minnkotamotors.com/products/418930/Trolling_Motor_Power_Center
[quote source="/post/1565/thread" timestamp="1403061065" author="@waejae"]Maybe something using the below? battery box, quick connects, 2 gauge wire, battery isolator,
http://www.amazon.com/MinnKota-Trolling-Motor-Power-Center/dp/B001PTHKMG/ref=pd_sbs_auto_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=09QXH6440M9EN7RKSYW1
http://www.amazon.com/Tuff-Stuff-Winch-Quick-Connector/dp/B002CEPI5O
http://www.amazon.com/Smart-Dual-Battery-140A-Isolator/dp/B00400IYTK/ref=sr_1_19?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1403060784&sr=1-19&keywords=Amp+Battery+Isolator
http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-PROP2G20BK-2-Gauge-Ultra-Flexible/dp/B004FOSG08/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1403059668&sr=1-2&keywords=2+gauge+wire
[/quote][font size="3"][font face="arial"]You're on the right track, but here are a few thoughts:
[ol type="decimal"][li]The battery case - Seems like too expensive and fancy for your use. Do you really need extra 12 outlets and a voltmeter? If so, OK, but there are cheaper, simpler battery boxes.
[/li][li]The connector - I like this. A good way to connect to the TT.[/li][li]The isolator - I like the claim that it has no voltage drop, but it's physically impossible. The implication that it's not a diode isolator is good, but I would prefer a true relay (solenoid) controlled by the ignition switch. I also question the 13.4 volt turn-on threshold. My newer model truck sometimes doesn't get above 13.2 when the battery is fully charged. If yours is similar you may never charge the aux battery. Again, a relay controlled by the ignition switch is either connected or not connected.
[/li][li]The wire - I cannot tell by description if the wire is 100% copper or Copper Clad Aluminum (CCA). Aluminum wire has more resistance per foot for a given gauge than copper, but it's cheaper. Manufacturers advertise a certain gauge trying to fake you out with a lower cost product. In general #2 aluminum is electrically equivalent to #4 copper, #4 Al equivalent to #6 Cu, etc. Make sure you get true 100% copper wire. If it doesn't say so, it ain't.
[/li][li]The heavy #2 wire is only important between the TV battery and the battery you are trying to charge due to the heavy currents expected. The connection from the aux battery to the TT can be smaller because the currents are generally less than 10 amps. That said, if you want to recharge the TT battery directly from the TV while it's idling you would need the larger wire.
[/li][li]The comments from Sean are applicable. Recharging a battery is not instantaneous. The nice thing about hooking up the charged aux battery to the TT is it will run the TT while it slowly equalizes with the TT battery.[/li][li]Let us know how you progress.
[/li][/ol]
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here is a much cheaper option of the same basic box: http://www.amazon.com/Shoreline-Marine-Battery-Power-Station/dp/B004UOUSWM/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1403106027&sr=8-5&keywords=battery+box though i dont know what size battery you plan to use so that might be a limitation.
[quote source="/post/1566/thread" timestamp="1403097387" author="@admin"]Side note, its not going to be an immediate transfer of energy. If you are expecting to charge a battery while driving then dump it to the TT its not going to happen the way it seems like you are expecting. I think of it like two barrels of water sitting next to each other, where one is full and the other is nearly empty. When connected the full barrel will eventually fill the nearly empty barrel until they are at an equal level.[/quote]
[quote source="/post/1568/thread" timestamp="1403103394" author="@charliem"][font size="3"][font face="arial"]Recharging a battery is not instantaneous. The nice thing about hooking up the charged aux battery to the TT is it will run the TT while it slowly equalizes with the TT battery.[/font][/font][/quote]
Both comments are correct, and Sean's analogy is an easy way to visualize the situation, but...
My thought was to use a boost circuit to actually force the auxiliary battery to charge the TT battery. In your analogy it would be like raising one of the barrels and using a syphon :)
There are plenty of adjustable boost circuits available on Amazon, but I'd be worried that I might overcharge the TT battery unless it was multi-stage. Which made me realize that my solar charger is multi-stage and I believe has a boost circuit built-in. I wonder what would happen if I hooked up the aux battery as the "solar panel"... would it boost and charge the TT battery using the aux battery as the source? I guess it's worth a try.
" I wonder what would happen if I hooked up the aux battery as the "solar panel"... would it boost and charge the TT battery using the aux battery as the source? I guess it's worth a try. "
I think that is what I was looking for.... I just didn't know it. Not sure how a booster works but thought there had to be something that did it. I will read up on them tonight. Maybe leave the battery mounted in the vehicle and just run a thick pair of wires from the TV (if you can park close) with a quick connection set up on both ends?
Thanks again
[quote source="/post/1575/thread" timestamp="1403123048" author="@waejae"]
" I wonder what would happen if I hooked up the aux battery as the "solar panel"... would it boost and charge the TT battery using the aux battery as the source? I guess it's worth a try. "
I think that is what I was looking for.... I just didn't know it. Not sure how a booster works but thought there had to be something that did it. I will read up on them tonight. Maybe leave the battery mounted in the vehicle and just run a thick pair of wires from the TV (if you can park close) with a quick connection set up on both ends?
Thanks again[/quote]A boost circuit produces a higher voltage than the input voltage (with some efficiency losses). This will create current from the input (the mobile battery) to output (the trailer battery) beyond the point of equalization you'd get from just connecting them in parallel. It's essentially a battery powered battery charger :).
For example, lets say your mobile battery was at 100% and your trailer battery was at 75%. If the mobile battery is half the capacity of your trailer battery and we're in a magical world where charging is 100% efficient (it isn't) then connecting them in parallel would yield two batteries at 83% charge >:(. But with a boost circuit you could charge the trailer to 100% by draining the mobile battery down to 25% (not ideal for lifespan, but maybe it's a cheap battery). That would give you a fuller trailer battery AND an emptier mobile battery to charge up the next day.
[quote source="/post/1570/thread" timestamp="1403107169" author="@tinkeringtechie"]There are plenty of adjustable boost circuits available on Amazon, but I'd be worried that I might overcharge the TT battery unless it was multi-stage. Which made me realize that my solar charger is multi-stage and I believe has a boost circuit built-in. I wonder what would happen if I hooked up the aux battery as the "solar panel"... would it boost and charge the TT battery using the aux battery as the source? I guess it's worth a try.[/quote][font face="arial" size="3"]Can you point to a real boost converter available on Amazon? Power in > Power out; Voltage out > Voltage in, Current in > Current out.. [/font][font face="arial" size="3"]Everything I find searching for "battery booster" looks like just a battery in a case that you connect to the vehicle battery in normal jumper mode. Most have a built in battery charger for the included battery. A device capable of supplying significant charging current at 14V or greater from an input less than 13V would be great for overcoming cable drop. The TV alternator usually has plenty of power available, but the system voltage is too low for quick charging of the TT. Maybe the MPPT solar controllers could be adapted.
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Here are a few that I was looking at:
http://www.amazon.com/LM2577-Adjustable-Step-up-Converter-Module/dp/B008HMETBE/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1403137786&sr=8-8&keywords=dc+boost
http://www.amazon.com/Automatic-Converter-1-25-20V-Adjustable-Regulated/dp/B00K6ARMX2/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1403137786&sr=8-11&keywords=dc+boost
http://www.amazon.com/10-32V-12-35V-Adjustable-supply-Mudule/dp/B008BFNP62/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1403137786&sr=8-7&keywords=dc+boost
I already have this MPPT solar charger that I'll try:
http://www.amazon.com/Tracer1210RN-Solar-Charge-Controller-Regulator/dp/B008KWPGS6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1403137925&sr=8-1&keywords=mppt
Even if there is an option to boost the charge of the TT while draining the mobile battery it still seems like the idea is over complicating things.
In my mind I keep running two situations, in one you could rig up the system so the batteries are both mobile and thus you switch them out as they get low. Similar to a propane tank in concept. The down side to this is that it requires a fair amount of effort to move heavy batteries, as well as some pre-planning to have quick connection/disconnection to the electrical system. If its done right you could use them in parallel as well.
In the second situation I picture a single mobile battery that is used to increase the capacity of the overall system. The down side here is that you never get the TT battery fully charged.
I'd personally rather deal with switching the batteries out like propane tanks vs. adding more complexity with a booster. Now if the solar charge controller idea works, that seems like a slick way to solve all the problems. Providing that boost charge from a variety of power inputs seems to good to be true though.
I'm interested to see how that turns out.
Two propane tanks with a selector valve, you run one until its empty, then switch to the other.
Two batteries with a switch, start out fully charged on both. Drain one, flip the switch to bring the other fully charged battery online. Hook your solar charger up to the empty battery, let it recharge all day while you draw down the other. Lather rinse repeat.
Of course, you have to be able to monitor their charge when you get back on power (from TV or shore power) and switch to the empty battery to recharge it when the first is full.
For propane tanks I sometimes take them to a refiller, but I also just swap them via Blue Rhino or similar either out of necessity or convenience. The self-serve they have at many Home Depots are open 24 hours a day. It also means you never have a tank long enough to worry about rust or recertification. It is not the most economical way to go, but I don't go through propane that often for the difference to really add up.
[quote source="/post/1590/thread" timestamp="1403184007" author="@admin"]Even if there is an option to boost the charge of the TT while draining the mobile battery it still seems like the idea is over complicating things.
In my mind I keep running two situations, in one you could rig up the system so the batteries are both mobile and thus you switch them out as they get low. Similar to a propane tank in concept. The down side to this is that it requires a fair amount of effort to move heavy batteries, as well as some pre-planning to have quick connection/disconnection to the electrical system. If its done right you could use them in parallel as well.
In the second situation I picture a single mobile battery that is used to increase the capacity of the overall system. The down side here is that you never get the TT battery fully charged.
I'd personally rather deal with switching the batteries out like propane tanks vs. adding more complexity with a booster. Now if the solar charge controller idea works, that seems like a slick way to solve all the problems. Providing that boost charge from a variety of power inputs seems to good to be true though.
I'm interested to see how that turns out.
[/quote]My electricity demands are pretty minimal, so having two full-size batteries would be overkill and too expensive. I might use 10AH a day maximum (I disconnected my fridge frame heater if you're wondering how I could get that low). If it's sunny I can replace that with my 30W solar panel pretty easily. But if it's cloudy or rainy it would be nice to have a backup charging method. I would pair the boost circuit with a cheapy SLA (maybe 20AH). That way I could add back my 10AH without draining the mobile battery below 50%. Total cost would be around $50 and could be easily moved back and forth. I already have a SAE connector on my battery for the solar charger, so it would be plug and play.
I am all for multiple ways for recharging the system, which made me start thinking. I have a small inverter style generator that I believe was put out by Chicago Electric (Harbor Freight). Its basically a Honda knock off clone. It has a small outlet that is labeled as 12v but I've never seen this type of plug before; The two prongs are in a V shape. Have any of you seen this kind of plug and know where I could get a cable for it, and do you think it would require a charge controller for realistic use? I like this idea of being able to charge the batter from another battery, but if the generator is capable of doing it directly I'm thinking that might also be a good option since it sucks so little gas. Having the small generator could be useful if you aren't doing enough driving to fully recharge the mobile battery.
FYI I cant seem to find the same model I have when searching online. I'll try to pull a part number.
[quote source="/post/1593/thread" timestamp="1403200358" author="@admin"]I am all for multiple ways for recharging the system, which made me start thinking. I have a small inverter style generator that I believe was put out by Chicago Electric (Harbor Freight). Its basically a Honda knock off clone. It has a small outlet that is labeled as 12v but I've never seen this type of plug before; The two prongs are in a V shape. Have any of you seen this kind of plug and know where I could get a cable for it, and do you think it would require a charge controller for realistic use? I like this idea of being able to charge the batter from another battery, but if the generator is capable of doing it directly I'm thinking that might also be a good option since it sucks so little gas. Having the small generator could be useful if you aren't doing enough driving to fully recharge the mobile battery.
FYI I cant seem to find the same model I have when searching online. I'll try to pull a part number.
[/quote]I think this is what you're looking for:
http://www.amazon.com/Honda-Generator-D-C-Charging-Cables/dp/B0044U4D2I
But if you've got a generator, why not just plug the trailer into it and let the converter do the charging?
[font size="3"][font face="arial"]My 2013 Tacoma with off road package came with a built in 400W inverter. With a 50% SOC dual GC2 golfer battery the TT converter delivered approx 20A charging. Switching to 16 foot #6 jumper cables to the TV battery gave approx 30A charging at idle. I just bought a 20 foot #4 jumper cable. Haven't tried it yet, but I've got lots of options. The #4 jumpers should charge the best; the on-board inverter is the easiest. The truck burns about 0.5 GPH idling. It's a lot easier to fill up the truck than to haul a genny and its gas can. Not as efficient or cheap, but no generator or solar expense either. Options!
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Options are good and bad at the same time. Good that you have choices, but bad that you have to make decisions. This year our off-grid camping is pretty minimal, so I probably won't change anything yet. I might turn this into one of my winter projects and have it ready for next season. I'm picturing a little black box with a cigarette lighter plug and an SAE connector. Plugging the cigarette plug into the TV will charge the battery in the box, and plugging the SAE plug into the trailer will charge the trailer using the battery in the box. I'd also like to upgrade my solar panel from 30W to 100W.
If you charge the battery with a cigarette lighter won't you have to drive a significant amount of time to put any real charge back into it? Assuming you've used it to top off the TT battery which would leave the mobile battery at a significant discharge.
[quote source="/post/1597/thread" timestamp="1403204899" author="@admin"]If you charge the battery with a cigarette lighter won't you have to drive a significant amount of time to put any real charge back into it? Assuming you've used it to top off the TT battery which would leave the mobile battery at a significant discharge.[/quote]That's a good point, I'd be limited to 8 amps or so continuous from the lighter. Hmm... I don't think I have any room in the engine compartment and I don't really want to make any modifications to the vehicle. Maybe the battery plugs into the 7-way? More planning required...
I think the 7 way circuits are limited to 10 (maybe 15) amps if given the right control unit. When I was getting a wiring harness for my Pilot I remember reading a couple warnings about the limits of the power output from a 7 way connector.
The output from the lighter is better than nothing, and its the easiest way to get started.
Where do you guys use all of the power so that the standard 70 amphour battery mounted on the a-frame isn't enough. We haven't camped long enough in one spot for it to matter. But with LED light, a fraction of an amp for refrigerator control, a few amps every time the hot water heater or the water pump goes on, we probably use only 10 amp hours a day. That will easily be replaced via the TV connector with a few hours of driving.
I agree wit another poster's comment about adding another 6 gauge circuit directly from the TVs battery to the trailer's battery (fused at both ends of course). Pin 7 (methinks) will provide 30 amps, but that only lasts for a short while due to voltage drop in the 10 gauge wire. #6 with a 100 amp fuse on both ends should halve the TV's running time to recharge. But it won't be easy to run those wires. And I say wires because you have to have a #6 ground wire as well as the pos wire.
David
Hi David,
The fridge will use about 12 amp hrs per day by my figuring. There's a thread somewhere where I posted what uses how much and some assumptions I made and I came up with using about 20 amp hours a day being relatively conservative. On a 70 Ahr battery you technically should only use 35 Ahrs before charging to avoid battery damage so that only gives you 1.75 days (the battery that come on my 13qbb was 85 Ahrs). If you can't find the previous thread and want the info let me know and I'll dig it up.
Mitch
[quote source="/post/1787/thread" timestamp="1404251915" author="@david"]Where do you guys use all of the power so that the standard 70 amphour battery mounted on the a-frame isn't enough. We haven't camped long enough in one spot for it to matter. But with LED light, a fraction of an amp for refrigerator control, a few amps every time the hot water heater or the water pump goes on, we probably use only 10 amp hours a day. That will easily be replaced via the TV connector with a few hours of driving.
I agree wit another poster's comment about adding another 6 gauge circuit directly from the TVs battery to the trailer's battery (fused at both ends of course). Pin 7 (methinks) will provide 30 amps, but that only lasts for a short while due to voltage drop in the 10 gauge wire. #6 with a 100 amp fuse on both ends should halve the TV's running time to recharge. But it won't be easy to run those wires. And I say wires because you have to have a #6 ground wire as well as the pos wire.
David[/quote]I don't think we're using much power, we just stay longer in one spot. Even with your 10Ah/day figure that's about 3 days before you'd need to recharge. If you're moving more often than that, then you need to find more interesting places to stay :D
Also, you don't need to run the ground wire far; the frame is nearly zero resistance. Running all the way to the battery would actually cause more voltage drop than grounding to the frame close to the connector.
[quote source="/post/1788/thread" timestamp="1404252840" author="@mitch"]The fridge will use about 12 amp hrs per day by my figuring. [/quote]This is due to the fridge frame heater. I wasn't willing to give up that much juice for a feature that isn't useful in my climate. Here's my quick fix:
http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/144/fridge-frame-heater-switch
I actually disconnected it a few trips ago and haven't noticed a difference (except in my increased battery life). I may still add the relay eventually, but for now I'm just leaving it disconnected.
Mitch:
Yes I would appreciate that reference to 12 amp hours for the fridge. 12 AH in 24 hrs is amazing. And so far we haven't used the fridge. It takes too long to cool down for an overnight or two so we use a cooler with ice.
I have no way of actually measuring it other than instantaneous amperage. On a prior camper I had a battery monitor that integrated actual amphours used. That was before LED lights and we probably used 20 or so AHs each day.
But I have measured battery voltage and it hardly drops after 24 hours, so it can't be that much without the fridge.
David
[quote source="/post/1791/thread" timestamp="1404253753" author="@david"]Mitch:
Yes I would appreciate that reference to 12 amp hours for the fridge. 12 AH in 24 hrs is amazing. And so far we haven't used the fridge. It takes too long to cool down for an overnight or two so we use a cooler with ice.
I have no way of actually measuring it other than instantaneous amperage. On a prior camper I had a battery monitor that integrated actual amphours used. That was before LED lights and we probably used 20 or so AHs each day.
But I have measured battery voltage and it hardly drops after 24 hours, so it can't be that much without the fridge.
David[/quote]Sorry, I don't recall my exact reference for the fridge I found it a while ago, but this is the basis of my total amp draw
[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] Hours[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] Daily [/span][/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span]
[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span]
[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span]Volts[span] [/span] Amps[span] [/span] Watts[span] [/span] Use/Day[span] [/span] Amp Use
Lights [span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span] 12 [span] [/span] 1.20 [span] [span] [/span] [/span] 14.4[span] [/span][span] [/span] 2[span] [span] [/span][span] [/span][/span] 2.4 [span] [/span][span] [span] [/span][span] [/span] [/span] Four, 3.6 Watt LED bulbs
Furnace[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span] 12 [span] [/span] 3.40 [span] [/span][span] [/span] 40.0[span] [/span][span] [/span] 0[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span] 0.0
Refrigerator [span] [/span][span] [/span]12 [span] [/span] 0.50[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span] 6.0 [span] [/span][span] [/span] 24 [span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span] 12.0[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span] On propane mode w/electronic control panel
CO Monitor [span] [/span][span] [/span] 12 [span] [/span][span] [/span]0.11[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span] 1.3 [span] [/span][span] [/span] 24[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span] 2.6
Smoke Detector[span] [/span] 12[span] [/span] 0.00[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span] 0.0[span] [/span] 24[span] [/span][span] [span] [/span] [/span]0.0
Water Pump [span] [/span][span] [/span] 12[span] [/span] 4.00 [span] [/span][span] [/span] 48.0[span] [/span] 0.5[span] [/span][span] [span] [/span] [/span] 2.0
Water Heater[span] [/span][span] [/span] 12[span] [/span] 0.20 [span] [/span][span] [/span] 2.4[span] [/span] 0.75[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span] 0.2
[span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span][span] [/span]Total AHr Draw/Day [span] [/span]19.2
[quote source="/post/1791/thread" timestamp="1404253753" author="@david"]Mitch:
Yes I would appreciate that reference to 12 amp hours for the fridge. 12 AH in 24 hrs is amazing. And so far we haven't used the fridge. It takes too long to cool down for an overnight or two so we use a cooler with ice.
David[/quote][font size="3"][font face="arial"]The fridge actually uses a bit more than 12 AH/day. According to my conversation with Dometic the frame heater alone uses 0.5A (6 watts) continuously from the battery. They used to provide a switch for it, but for some reason they no longer do. My guess is dollars or customer confusion. My current measurements confirm their numbers. I'm going to install a switch too until I discover I never need the heater anyway. [/font][/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"]In addition the fridge requires DC current to open the gas valve when cooling plus current to run the logic and light the interior lamp when the door is open. All in all the minimum DC current draw is 1.0 Amps just to keep the trailer alive![/font][/font][font size="3"][font face="arial"] [/font][/font]
[font size="3"][font face="arial"]I went back and looked at some of my notes. As posted [a href="http://livinlite.proboards.com/thread/134/minimum-battery-load-21rbs"]Here[/a] the minimum current draw is 1.0 Amps or 24 AH per day and that's before any lights, heat, fans, or cell phones. Just fridge, propane detector, WH logic, maybe furnace logic, radio, etc. Two days and you've dumped 1/2 of the standard group 24 battery.
[/font][/font]
I've been looking pretty hard at all the manuals for the Dometic RM-2554 and I see no reference to a frame heater or anti-condensation device at all. Is it possible that this model, which is in my 13QBB, doesn't have a frame heater?
[quote source="/post/1796/thread" timestamp="1404307618" author="@mitch"]I've been looking pretty hard at all the manuals for the Dometic RM-2554 and I see no reference to a frame heater or anti-condensation device at all. Is it possible that this model, which is in my 13QBB, doesn't have a frame heater?[/quote]I just looked over the schematic for you model and it doesn't have the frame heater.
[quote source="/post/1799/thread" timestamp="1404309726" author="@tinkeringtechie"][quote source="/post/1796/thread" timestamp="1404307618" author="@mitch"]I've been looking pretty hard at all the manuals for the Dometic RM-2554 and I see no reference to a frame heater or anti-condensation device at all. Is it possible that this model, which is in my 13QBB, doesn't have a frame heater?[/quote]I just looked over the schematic for you model and it doesn't have the frame heater.[/quote]Thanks
I was puzzled about what was a "frame heater"? Defrosting?? So I googled the term. It is to keep the edge of the freezer compartment door from freezing shut to the frame. Since my fridge (in a 16TBS) does not have an exterior freezer door- it is inside the refrigerated compartment, I suspect that models like this one (don't have the model number, the unit is in a storage yard) do not have a frame heater. That is why the unit in the 13 reported above doesn't have a frame heater either.
David