[font face="arial"]Can a roof ladder be added to a 2017 21rbs; say resting and attached to the bumper?[/font]
I'm curious about this as well.
Attached ? Sure.
How much weight it will bear is questionable.
What do you intend doing on the roof so often that you want a ladder ?
[font size="3"]Sun deck option on the new rubber roof? 8-) 8-)
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The rear wall was not designed for a roof ladder so there are no backers in the wall.
So Djmiller how can I add backers? Please do not tell me what you cannot do; rather how do you suggest it be done? I bought this trailer to attempt to live my full-timer dreams? And pinstriper I figure a ladder attached is better than having to carry one when I am on the road fulltime, for maintenance and check the caulking as we are supposed to check - this is not new to me however, after reading this forum I am wondering if selling my 1999 Casita was a MISTAKE?
I hate to tell you what we do, doctorjj - we haul our Camplite off to a dealer and have the dealer check this stuff out! Neither I nor my husband want to get up on that roof. The dealer's we have used have special ladders on wheels that they use to access the roof - much more stable than a ladder that we would use.
[quote source="/post/25556/thread" timestamp="1477360942" author="@docktorjj"]So Djmiller how can I add backers? Please do not tell me what you cannot do; rather how do you suggest it be done? I bought this trailer to attempt to live my full-timer dreams? And pinstriper I figure a ladder attached is better than having to carry one when I am on the road fulltime, for maintenance and check the caulking as we are supposed to check - this is not new to me however, after reading this forum I am wondering if selling my 1999 Casita was a MISTAKE?[/quote]I wonder if a portable ladder would be much more versatile than a permanently attached ladder? A folding or telescoping ladder strapped on the rear bumper or in the back of your Tundra would be more useful for general maintenance and cleaning for slides, windows, lights, etc and still provide access to the roof when needed. There are other threads on useful ladders others have purchased. For example:
http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/1960/sooner-ladder
Also, when camping, I always figured I could park next to my camper and easily (so to speak) get on the roof from the roof of my TV if I had an emergency fix to do.
This is not a vote against a fixed ladder, just a link to a collapsable ladder in case no option for mounting one is practical:
https://www.amazon.com/Telescopic-Telescoping-Ladder-Extension-Generic/dp/9996981126/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1477445102&sr=8-2&keywords=collapsible+ladder
[quote timestamp="1477360942" author="@docktorjj" source="/post/25556/thread"]So Djmiller how can I add backers? Please do not tell me what you cannot do; rather how do you suggest it be done? I bought this trailer to attempt to live my full-timer dreams? And pinstriper I figure a ladder attached is better than having to carry one when I am on the road fulltime, for maintenance and check the caulking as we are supposed to check - this is not new to me however, after reading this forum I am wondering if selling my 1999 Casita was a MISTAKE?[/quote]Physics works. I've seen it happen.
A ladder leaning against the side of the rig has most of it's weight pushing straight into the ground. As Jack Nicklaus said, when asked what he learned in his golfing career "dirt is more dense than air". The bumper has less weight bearing capacity than the ground.
Then consider that the ladder leaned against the rig is pushing INTO the trailer wall. Contrast that against a ladder that is pulling on unsupported areas of the aluminum skin.
As for adding backers, it's simple. Disassemble the interior walls, weld in some additional aluminum framing, and put everything back.
[span style="font-size:13.3333px;"]How often are you checking the caulk ? I let the dealer do that once a year.[/span]
The way I see it, the rear bumper is plenty strong to support my 185 lbs.
If the base of the ladder was anchored there, it would support nearly all my weight. As long as the top of the ladder had support extending onto the roof, the project seems eminently doable with no "backers" needed at all on the rear wall.
Or so it seems to me.
Quote from: @fasteddieb" source="/post/25583/thread" timestamp="1477448305The way I see it, the rear bumper is plenty strong to support my 185 lbs.
If the base of the ladder was anchored there, it would support nearly all my weight. As long as the top of the ladder had support extending onto the roof, the project seems eminently doable with no "backers" needed at all on the rear wall.
Or so it seems to me.
"Nearly all" is mathematically equivalent to "less than all". What's carrying the extra weight ?
A couple sheet metal screws into 1/16th" aluminum ? Go ahead, I'll hold your beer.
[quote source="/post/25583/thread" author="@fasteddieb" timestamp="1477448305"]The way I see it, the rear bumper is plenty strong to support my 185 lbs.
If the base of the ladder was anchored there, it would support nearly all my weight. As long as the top of the ladder had support extending onto the roof, the project seems eminently doable with no "backers" needed at all on the rear wall.
Or so it seems to me.[/quote]Exactly. If the base of the ladder can be anchored to the main frame (NOT the bumper), and the top of the ladder anchored to some of the roof structure, no loading will be placed on the exterior back wall. Done correctly, that should work, but I don't get on my roof often enough to make a worthwhile investment of time, money and risk.
pinstriper,
Good point.
I'm imagining the bumper taking 99% or so of my weight, as would be the case if the ladder were mounted vertically. I would screw or bolt it to the top of the bumper, so that the fasteners would be subject to little if any shear.
At the top, I'd think the fasteners would mainly be there to prevent the top of the ladder from pulling away from the trailer. Connecting to the aluminum roof either directly or via doubler plates should take that minor load.
I think - stipulating I'm no engineer!
And, to be perfectly accurate, most times you'd be holding my tequila, not my beer!
djsamuel,
Looks like we were both composing our posts at the same time.
The bumper sure seems strong enough to me.
[font face="arial" size="3"]I'm sure I don't need to weigh (pun?) in on this...... but I will. IMO, FastEddy is close to the mark here. The bumper is rigid and welded directly to the extended frame members so it is strong enough to take the weight of a human. The load is all in shear. Torque load kills the bumper, not shear (assuming good welds of course). If the top of the ladder extends above the roof like an inverted "J" or swimming pool ladder, the load on the roof will be primarily in shear with a small compression component. The connection must be made directly to the roof structural tubing, using rectangular aluminum tubing to span members if necessary. No connection to the back wall should be attempted. Maybe I'll post a picture if I can get my CAD program away from my model railroad layout. ;)
All that said, I question the real need for this complexity and cost. For the number of times I need to get to the roof I can pull the TV up close or wait until I get home. If really needed, a 12 foot folding or telescoping ladder could easily be carried on the bumper or stowed and would be much more versatile.[/font]
Although not a 21RBS or a 2017, you can see in general there's really not a lot of "structure" in these frames to fasten things like ladders.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jp64IGoUnNE
The dealer I purchased from suggested mounting a ladder to the bumper as suggested here. The dealer even called the factory and they gave him the same BS of no backers. Well why can't the azdel wall be removed and a backer added, it's only a bath wall.
I do not drink beer; White wine Please.
I really did not want to take a ladder when we begin to semi-time (NOT full-time yet). Thanks Merlin for the idea of using the truck for the extra height. As for the dealer doing service he's in Alabama about 10 hours away. The ONLY dealer in Florida is in Jacksonville and when we bought they had NO, NADA, NONE of any product line from Livin Lite - some dealer? So I will do my own service and mods as I did on our beloved Casita for sixteen years.
I am really excited about this 21RBS unit which we are still seeking a name for and when I figure out how to do pic's I'll post my mods. Words are OK, but pictures show you how to do it. I really appreciate what I have seen so far on this forum and have gotten some great ideas - THANK YOU everyone.
[quote source="/post/23967/thread" author="@docktorjj" timestamp="1471574355"][font face="arial"]Can a roof ladder be added to a 2017 21rbs; say resting and attached to the bumper?[/font][/quote]I checked with Eng. on your situation and it was brought to my attention that there was not enough backers in the frame of the back wall to support a rear ladder. -pr
Again, I can see a ladder supported at its base by the bumper and at the top to the roof - cantilevered away from the back wall, as it were, with no back wall support necessary.
I think that could work.
We need to start a pool on this one.
[quote source="/post/25769/thread" author="@pinstriper" timestamp="1478621613"]We need to start a pool on this one.
[/quote][font size="3"]You mean a pool to fall into when the ladder comes off? ::) ::) . Seriously, FastEddie is correct in that the bumper would and could support all the dead weight. IMO the problem is the dynamic load of the climber. I originally thought the roof structure would handle the shear load on the ladder if a high curved ladder, similar to a swimming pool ladder, were anchored to the roof. But thinking of the dynamic load imposed by a swinging climber I'm reconsidering. If one were to climb slowly and carefully it might be OK, but the separate external ladder is still best. [/font]
[quote source="/post/25787/thread" timestamp="1478703824" author="@charliem"][quote source="/post/25769/thread" timestamp="1478621613" author="@pinstriper"]We need to start a pool on this one.
[/quote][font size="3"]You mean a pool to fall into when the ladder comes off? ::) ::) . Seriously, FastEddie is correct in that the bumper would and could support all the dead weight. IMO the problem is the dynamic load of the climber. I originally thought the roof structure would handle the shear load on the ladder if a high curved ladder, similar to a swimming pool ladder, were anchored to the roof. But thinking of the dynamic load imposed by a swinging climber I'm reconsidering. If one were to climb slowly and carefully it might be OK, but the separate external ladder is still best. [/font]
[/quote]I don't think the bumper is the primary problem, but I do think it won't hold the weight, for some of us anyway <g>. It's the attachment at the top, and it's going to pull through the aluminum skin and/or pull the skin off the framing, with a result much like Clark Griswold on his ladder attaching the lights.
So I got $1 in the pool that says so. Others can take the "it'll be no problem". But we need someone to hold the money and make the book.
I nominate Merlin.
[quote timestamp="1478707130" source="/post/25788/thread" author="@pinstriper"][quote source="/post/25787/thread" timestamp="1478703824" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]You mean a pool to fall into when the ladder comes off? ::) ::) . Seriously, FastEddie is correct in that the bumper would and could support all the dead weight. IMO the problem is the dynamic load of the climber. I originally thought the roof structure would handle the shear load on the ladder if a high curved ladder, similar to a swimming pool ladder, were anchored to the roof. But thinking of the dynamic load imposed by a swinging climber I'm reconsidering. If one were to climb slowly and carefully it might be OK, but the separate external ladder is still best. [/font]
[/quote]I don't think the bumper is the primary problem, but I do think it won't hold the weight, for some of us anyway <g>. It's the attachment at the top, and it's going to pull through the aluminum skin and/or pull the skin off the framing, with a result much like Clark Griswold on his ladder attaching the lights.
So I got $1 in the pool that says so. Others can take the "it'll be no problem". But we need someone to hold the money and make the book.
I nominate Merlin.
[/quote]I'm in. I use my younger dog as my bookie; he's smart as whip and doesn't abscond with very much of the money. His line right now is 11:1 in favor of a ladder attached to the camper not working. I take paypal, visa, MC, Discover, AE, Panera, Walmart, cash, check, direct deposit, and boxes of poop bags (unopened).