We noted our 8.0 was doing a LOT of bouncing while we were towing this weekend. What would cause that?
1-n of the following:
1 - Going too fast.
2 - Tongue weight too low.
3 - Hitch ball too high for coupler, putting trailer in nose-high attitude (automatically gets you #2).
Definitely NOT #1. Possibly #2 but how would we remedy that in a QS 8.0? The galley is at the tongue end and you can't really pack anything else up there. As far as #3 goes, I think when I look at our setup (for towing) our hitch ball looks too low. We tow with a Toyota Corolla and when the car and camper are hitched together they look low in the middle to me...like the letter "V". The car is low already, and then we pack crap in the trunk.
That letter "V" clue is probably the problem. I think you may be overloading the Corolla suspension. Tongue weight is good, but the "crap in the trunk" and people on board might be too much for the rear springs and shocks to control when towing. Some options that come to mind: 1) lighten the load on the car and keep the tongue weight at least 10% of the trailer weight (2 make sure you have good shocks and good, properly inflated tires on the car (3 check if anyone makes heavier duty shocks for the car (4 get a bigger tow vehicle. The QS-8 is probably right at the limit of the Corolla's capability, even lightly loaded.
Yeah, it sure could be overload. If the back of the tow vehicle is being noticeably pushed down, the front end is likely being pushed up. Ie. tires that should be steering and braking...won't.
I'm not sure I would describe that ride as "bouncing", but...it will not feel fun.
Ski, do you happen to have a handle on your gross vehicle weight ? combined vehicle gross weight ? What else was in the Corolla ?
Also, without the trailer connected, how high is the ball ?
Finally, do you have the rear platform ? Anything on it ?
What I'm thinking is you could have a hitch that's too low, and still be nose-down and have weight behind the trailer wheels lifting up the front of the trailer. That would feel like bounce, but really is more of a porpoise motion.
[font size="3"]I know you're not going to like this, but I also think the Carolla is not up to this task. True the published towing capacity of the Carolla is 1500# and the empty weight of the 8.0 is 1127#, but that's with nothing in or on the trailer. Add food, clothes, water, propane, and a battery and you're over the limit. And typically the weight of passengers other than the driver and any baggage or personal effects must be included in the "towing" weight. IMO you will not be happy with that combination.
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[quote timestamp="1468816746" source="/post/23151/thread" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]I know you're not going to like this, but I also think the Carolla is not up to this task. True the published towing capacity of the Carolla is 1500# and the empty weight of the 8.0 is 1127#, but that's with nothing in or on the trailer. Add food, clothes, water, propane, and a battery and you're over the limit. And typically the weight of passengers other than the driver and any baggage or personal effects must be included in the "towing" weight. IMO you will not be happy with that combination.
[/font][/quote]Our 8.0 empty weight is around 860#. Tow cap of the Corolla is 1500#. We are very much minimalist campers and don't take much with us, I promise! We do not tow water (except some bottled), propane or a battery as we never boondock. We actually never even cook while camping so we have no grill or cooking gear either.
Quote from: @pinstriper" timestamp="1468816517" source="/post/23150/threadYeah, it sure could be overload. If the back of the tow vehicle is being noticeably pushed down, the front end is likely being pushed up. Ie. tires that should be steering and braking...won't.
I'm not sure I would describe that ride as "bouncing", but...it will not feel fun.
Ski, do you happen to have a handle on your gross vehicle weight ? combined vehicle gross weight ? What else was in the Corolla ?
Also, without the trailer connected, how high is the ball ?
Finally, do you have the rear platform ? Anything on it ?
What I'm thinking is you could have a hitch that's too low, and still be nose-down and have weight behind the trailer wheels lifting up the front of the trailer. That would feel like bounce, but really is more of a porpoise motion.
Besides hubby and I (combined weight maybe ~300# but I'm not splitting that up for you!), we carry a dorm fridge in the car (haven't managed to fit it in the camper and get it to close all the way---working on that), a cooler, firewood (which we've decided we just can't do anymore because of weight), a Rubbermaid tote of drygoods, clothing (just 2 days worth) and our laptops. This trip we took a tiny dorm sized microwave because hubby just had dental surgery and is limited to soup and such for eating.
The camper fills up pretty quickly with basic camping gear in the benches (tools, awning, lights, cords, hoses, bedding) and the cabinets (eating utensils, paper plates/cups, coffee maker (mini Keurig), and basic cleaning supplies. The tiny amount of floor space is occupied by our zero gravity lawnchairs and 2 small folding aluminum tables (we never take the stock table with us). We've removed the original mattresses and hubby uses a 4" memory foam topper and I have a twin size inflatable mattress.
The ball is low (see picture) and we've purchased one with some "lift" to it now but haven't used it yet. No, we do not have the rear platform. I'm wondering if we could mount a stowage box (like diamond plate or something) on the tongue for extra storage and tongue weight. We've never used the battery and probably never will so removing the box rack would be no problem for us.
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[p]I am not sure why it would contribute to bouncing, but your hitch is definitely too low. More tongue weight which will help with bouncing will make it worse. Looking at your picture you have a reverse drop receiver, so that doesn't seem to be the problem. Soft rear end springs in your TV is the more likely cause.[/p][p]
[/p][p]I don't think it makes sense to add helper springs or air bags, to a sedan. Like Charlie, I think you don't have enough TV.
David[/p]
I used to tow a pop-up of similar weight (sadly not a LL) with a Subaru Impreza that also had a 1500# tow rating. When the car was fully loaded and camper attached, the rear suspension did not have much travel remaining, so I could definitely feel every bump in the road. Eventually I just got accustomed to it and didn't worry about as long as the trailer looked stable. So my suspicion is that you're simply feeling normal trailer movement but it's magnified a bit by the limited rear suspension travel. Unless it feels unsafe or not stable when towing, I would try and not worry too much about it.
Graham
David, the working theory would be the balance of the trailer wants to pull up, the ball height wants it down. Result: porpoising ie. bounce. It would feel like bouncing the whole car, as well.
But I'm with you. Not enough tow vehicle. What I see in the photo is very little gap between the rear tire and the wheel well, much larger gap in the front. So yeah, saggy pants.
Cooler full of ice and food gets heavy FAST. So does firewood. Having hauled one of those dorm fridges (the square one, not the bigguns) I can tell you those are heavy, too. Between that and tongue weight, I bet that's the equivalent of 500# or more in the back seat.
Ski, you might consider loading up the car and going to the scales without the trailer behind, just to see what all you're carrying.
Spec sheet on the QS 8 says the ball wants to be 18-20" off the ground. ymmv
[quote timestamp="1468846351" author="@debiski" source="/post/23157/thread"]Our 8.0 empty weight is around 860#. Tow cap of the Corolla is 1500#. We are very much minimalist campers and don't take much with us, I promise! We do not tow water (except some bottled), propane or a battery as we never boondock. We actually never even cook while camping so we have no grill or cooking gear either.[/quote][font size="3"]How do you know the 860# empty weight. The present LL web spec sheet says 1127#, but LL has been notoriously bad on weight specs. The only true answer is at the scales. The lack of battery, propane, or water are noted, but you make up for it with the fridge, cooler, fire wood, awning, microwave, chairs, tables, and other stuff. Pounds add up quickly. [/font]
Quote from: @charliem" timestamp="1468853627" source="/post/23165/thread[quote timestamp="1468846351" source="/post/23157/thread" author="@debiski"]Our 8.0 empty weight is around 860#. Tow cap of the Corolla is 1500#. We are very much minimalist campers and don't take much with us, I promise! We do not tow water (except some bottled), propane or a battery as we never boondock. We actually never even cook while camping so we have no grill or cooking gear either.
[font size="3"]How do you know the 860# empty weight. The present LL web spec sheet says 1127#, but LL has been notoriously bad on weight specs. The only true answer is at the scales. The lack of battery, propane, or water are noted, but you make up for it with the fridge, cooler, fire wood, awning, microwave, chairs, tables, and other stuff. Pounds add up quickly. [/font]
[/quote]Somehow I missed the above.
860# sounds like what it would show on the scales, but neglecting the weight it puts on the hitch.
With the battery removed and a bunch of heavy stuff in the car, we're back to too low a hitch height, and too low tongue weight. Especially if the stuff in the trailer is behind the wheels.
Quote from: @charliem" source="/post/23165/thread" timestamp="1468853627[quote timestamp="1468846351" source="/post/23157/thread" author="@debiski"]Our 8.0 empty weight is around 860#. Tow cap of the Corolla is 1500#. We are very much minimalist campers and don't take much with us, I promise! We do not tow water (except some bottled), propane or a battery as we never boondock. We actually never even cook while camping so we have no grill or cooking gear either.
[font size="3"]How do you know the 860# empty weight. The present LL web spec sheet says 1127#, but LL has been notoriously bad on weight specs. The only true answer is at the scales. The lack of battery, propane, or water are noted, but you make up for it with the fridge, cooler, fire wood, awning, microwave, chairs, tables, and other stuff. Pounds add up quickly. [/font]
[/quote]~860# was on the spec sheet when we bought the camper last year. I'll have to dig it out but that number is pretty close. We knew the tow cap on the car and bought what we saw as our only option without needing a new TV, which hubby was not willing to do (we used to have a pickup truck but sold it several years ago due to gas mileage issues). Hubby is not the big camping fan of the family...I am, so I got what I got while allowing him to keep what he had. Compromise.
We don't do long trips and are mostly weekend warriors so as long as we're within limits I can live with the bouncing. Our favorite place to camp is only 30 minutes from home and requires no highway driving so I guess we'll be ok. What I REALLY need is the secret to getting my other half to love camping as much as I do so we could upgrade the TV. Heck, maybe even the camper. And go on longer trips.
Beer. Also sending the kids out to play in the woods.
[quote timestamp="1468882446" source="/post/23181/thread" author="@pinstriper"]Beer. Also sending the kids out to play in the woods.[/quote]Oh if only it were that easy! We're old folks--no kids around anymore (unless you count hubby's 23 yo son who lives with us ATM, but he doesn't come camping with us). Beer won't work either, as we're both non-drinkers (I know...old AND boring!) but thanks for the suggestions! :D
Check your tire pressure. With what you've said about the weight of your camper, put about 35 PSI of air in them. You want enough pressure to make them maintain proper shape when loaded, but no so much pressure that they can't deform slightly to absorb bumps.
My 6.0 is the third and largest camper that I've owned. The previous two campers I had could be pulled with my motorcycle. Initially, I had a lot of problems with the 400 pound motorcycle camper bouncing until I realized that the tires were too "tight", making them bounce like basketballs.
My fully loaded 6.0 probably weighs about the same as your minimally loaded 8.0 annd I've been running 35 PSI in my tires since I bought it in June of 2009.
We replaced shocks on our Town & Country with two stage towing shocks and this got ride or our V.