I'm curious if anyone has taken a look at the Chevy Colorado 2.8L 4-cylinder Diesel. Only 180hp but has 369lb of torque.
It's been getting 30mpg on highway (unloaded) based on some of the videos of guys testing it on 100 mile runs. It has a tow rating of 7,700 lbs. I believe the payload is 1,500...but I don't fully understand payload yet to be honest.
I have a 21BHS and we are a family of 3 (small, light humans...ha).
Any thoughts on this truck for towing a 21BHS?
I've also been looking at the 2016 Toyota Tundra with 5.7L 4x4 with 38 gallon tank. I'm a huge Toyota fan so I'm honestly leery of anything not Toyota.
http://truckyeah.jalopnik.com/2016-chevy-colorado-diesel-all-the-right-sounds-and-da-1734638569
I'd skip the diesel Colorado for pulling a 21 and with family on board. Not enough HP. You'd run out of steam pretty quick after the torque curve peaks. "Torque gets you moving and horsepower keeps you moving" as the saying goes. It might feel great up to about 40 mph. By the time you hit 55-60, it would be out of breath on a hill or with a headwind. As you know from my previous bias, no comparison to that 5.7L 381 HP Tundra V8.
Quote from: @sandroad" source="/post/21527/thread" timestamp="1464225409I'd skip the diesel Colorado for pulling a 21 and with family on board. Not enough HP. You'd run out of steam pretty quick after the torque curve peaks. "Torque gets you moving and horsepower keeps you moving" as the saying goes. It might feel great up to about 40 mph. By the time you hit 55-60, it would be out of breath on a hill or with a headwind. As you know from my previous bias, no comparison to that 5.7L 381 HP Tundra V8.
Ok, this is very helpful especially your explanation of HP at keeping speed.
I'm about 95% sure I will get a Tundra at some point. But I wanted to hear about that new diesel from some of you guys.
If gas mileage is a concern you may want to look at the 3.5L ecoboost Ford F-150. Mine consistently gets better mileage then the Toyota Tacoma I had with a ton more power. I would have probably gone with a Tundra because I was really happy with the Tacoma but the Tundra has the worst gas mileage out of all the full size pick-ups.
[quote timestamp="1464265578" author="@mitch" source="/post/21546/thread"]If gas mileage is a concern you may want to look at the 3.5L ecoboost Ford F-150. Mine consistently gets better mileage then the Toyota Tacoma I had with a ton more power. I would have probably gone with a Tundra because I was really happy with the Tacoma but the Tundra has the worst gas mileage out of all the full size pick-ups.[/quote]
Ok I'll check it out. I am a little worried about the 3.5L ecoboost long-term reliability. Was there anything specific that got you comfortable with it? I have a 2002 Toyota Sequoia with 150k miles and it's been bombproof. If I get a new truck, I'll likely keep it just as long. I wish Toyota made a diesel for the US!
I did the basic research and it seemed fine. I'm not a big gearhead at all so my knowledge of the details is scant but I'm hopeful that it wasn't a mistake. Only time will tell. My experience with it so far has been very good but I've only put 4k miles on it.
[quote source="/post/21527/thread" author="@sandroad" timestamp="1464225409"]Not enough HP. You'd run out of steam pretty quick after the torque curve peaks. "Torque gets you moving and horsepower keeps you moving" as the saying goes. It might feel great up to about 40 mph. By the time you hit 55-60, it would be out of breath on a hill or with a headwind.
[/quote][font size="3"]I wish more people would understand the HP vs Torque argument. To climb a hill at reasonable speed or even to maintain highway speeds and accelerate it takes HP. Low end torque is nice for starting, but that's why there's first gear. The appeal of small 2.x Diesels should be MPG and longevity, but you pay in initial acquisition, maintenance, and towing performance. Small diesels are not for towing. Large diesels, 6.7L or so, different story, but same for 6+L gassers. There's no substitute for cubes. [/font]
[p]I wouldn't worry too much about the Colorado diesel's relatively low maximum hp of 180. My Nissan Pathfinder produces 260 hp but at 6,400 rpm. I have NEVER run that engine anywhere near that rpm, maybe 4,000 max where it can only produce less than 180 hp max. The Colorado diesel produces its maximum hp at almost half the rpm of the Nissan- 3,400 due to its high torque. So there is hp and then there is useable hp. The Colorado diesel works for me because it makes its hp at a low rpm.
FWIW, towing a 16TBS at a steady 60 mph only takes 50-60 hp. A 21 will take very slightly more. That is only 1/3 of the Colorado diesel's maximum hp. There is plenty more available for hill climbing.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Edit: Let me add this to respond to Charlie's previous posting.[/p][p]
[/p][p]Normally I would not recommend a 2.8 liter engine for towing a 21. But a diesel is different than most gasoline engines for two reasons: heavy construction and diesel lubrication. According to the attached article above, the diesel Colorado diesel weighs 200 lbs more than the gas version. That is due to a heavier block and larger bearings, all of which contribute to longer life. Also diesel fuel is an ok lubricant, unlike gasoline. The diesel injected in the combustion chamber helps lubricate the piston, rings and cylinder wall. That is why that diesels usually go twice the miles in similar service than gasoline engines.[/p][p]
[/p][p]In the boating world, we use our engines continuously at high power unlike vehicles where we only goose the engine to merge or climb a hill (or many years ago, to impress our girlfriend). The pros that maintain these engines say that if you keep the hp down to about 35 hp per liter, they will last for many thousands, probably ten thousand hours (about 400,000 miles in typical vehicle use). 35 hp per liter for that Colorado diesel is about 100 hp, well below the steady state requirement of 60 hp at 60 mph.
David
[/p]
Always err on the conservative side when deciding on HP needed, especially if you ever want to go into the mountains.
Even though we've only had our 21BHS since December, there have been numerous times already where we've been grateful for plenty of HP. We travel light as well (just the two of us and our dog), but there are times when you need plenty of extra HP when going up long steep grades. Our Jeep Grand Cherokee with 5.7L V-8 Hemi that generates 370 HP fits the bill very nicely! It's an absolute beast and will serve us very well over the years ahead and we will have absolutely no problems going through high mountain passes out west next year. So keep in mind where you want to travel in the future before deciding on a tow vehicle.
In summation, TANSTATMTV !
Quote from: @pinstriper" timestamp="1464286739" source="/post/21557/threadIn summation, TANSTATMTV !
[font size="3"]Similarly, TNSTATMGarlic ;) [/font]
Another factor to consider is how much time is your tow vehicle (TV) actually hooked up to your trailer, our Chevy Colorado six pulls our 21BHS just fine even across 441 the main road across the Great Smoky Mountains. We have 22k miles on it and only 9k when hooked to the 21BHS. Its really nice when looking for a parking spot!
Don't buy GM. I mean that seriously. I'm not trying to be a wise guy. Don't do it. I learned first hand...twice. Twice may also prove I'm not that smart but that just helps prove my point.
[quote timestamp="1464300836" author="@tlbones" source="/post/21563/thread"]Don't buy GM. I mean that seriously. I'm not trying to be a wise guy. Don't do it. I learned first hand...twice. Twice may also prove I'm not that smart but that just helps prove my point.[/quote]Have to disagree with you on that, I've gone through a few trucks in my time and they all have their issues. My Dodge 3/4 ton 5.8 gasser couldn't tow to save its life and after the third transmission, I sold it. I towed a light weight TT with a Dakota and never had an issue. Honda, Nissan and Toyota all have the fair share of problems. I'm currently towing with a 2011 Duramax and haven't had any major problems, (only sensor issues).
I have no problem towing on short trips with my 1996 Toyota T-100, out of state trips such as tomorrows trip from Louisiana to Colorado will be with my Tundra with the 4.7 liter.
I'm not too pleased with the 200 mi range with the Tundra and looked at the diesel Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon.
I think it would be perfect for my 6x15 toyhauler, but there are no manufacturer incentives yet.
Those folks that do actual real world tests towing a 5600lb trailer tested the GMC Canyon and it did excellent. Look up The Fast Lane on Youtube, they take a 5600 lb horse trailer and do a 100 mile loop in Colorado with different vehicles.
I'll keep my eye on them for a year or two to see how they perform.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGDIwZkLQuI
[quote source="/post/21565/thread" timestamp="1464305562" author="@pjcd"][quote source="/post/21563/thread" timestamp="1464300836" author="@tlbones"]Don't buy GM. I mean that seriously. I'm not trying to be a wise guy. Don't do it. I learned first hand...twice. Twice may also prove I'm not that smart but that just helps prove my point.[/quote]Have to disagree with you on that, I've gone through a few trucks in my time and they all have their issues. My Dodge 3/4 ton 5.8 gasser couldn't tow to save its life and after the third transmission, I sold it. I towed a light weight TT with a Dakota and never had an issue. Honda, Nissan and Toyota all have the fair share of problems. I'm currently towing with a 2011 Duramax and haven't had any major problems, (only sensor issues). [/quote]I stand by my statement with absolutely no offence meant to you. It wasn't meant to be infamatory to current GM owners so I apologize in that regard. I agree that no manufacturer is perfect. I've got no skin in the game with any of them. I'm sure you have a product or a store you absolutely refuse to ever do business with again. GM is mine and then some. Being screwed over like I was the second time actually made me very leary and much more diligent in all my major purchases since then...which is why I went with Livin-lite for a camper....twice now!
I would at least do some homework on the engine/tranny combo and verify after others have taken the bite that it's trustworthy of any investment of hard earned money. A new engine/transmission/vehicle combo is always a risk regardless of manufacturer. I agree with DavidB...let others drive it for a year or two first.
Brand/garage space/cost aside I would personnaly be looking at a 1/2 ton prefrerrably a V8. My Nissan Frontier did well with my 16DB, but a larger/longer wheelbase truck leaves room for growth or towing other larger toys.
[quote source="/post/21566/thread" author="@davidb" timestamp="1464305682"]
Those folks that do actual real world tests towing a 5600lb trailer tested the GMC Canyon and it did excellent. Look up The Fast Lane on Youtube, they take a 5600 lb horse trailer and do a 100 mile loop in Colorado with different vehicles.
I'll keep my eye on them for a year or two to see how they perform.
[/quote][font size="3"]I watched the Youtube video, thanks to davidb for the link. It's good data. Compared to the 2016 Tacoma w/3.5L gas engine:
Time up 7% grade: 8'55" for the Canyon vs 8'05" for the Tacoma
Speed maintained: 51mph last reported full out, but probably dropping for Canyon. Not reported for Tacoma.
MPG 6+ for Canyon, 4+ for Taco.
The new Taco was only 3.5L vs 4.0 in years prior to 2016. The Canyon was turbocharged; the Taco was not, but could have been SC'd.
I rest my case. Torque gets you rolling, HP gets you there. It's all about physics. Diesels do get better MPG, but maybe more $/gal depending on location.
That said, Ford's 3.5 Ecoboost would have beat both as long as it lasted ;) .
[/font]
[quote timestamp="1464306251" author="@tlbones" source="/post/21568/thread"][quote timestamp="1464305562" source="/post/21565/thread" author="@pjcd"]Have to disagree with you on that, I've gone through a few trucks in my time and they all have their issues. My Dodge 3/4 ton 5.8 gasser couldn't tow to save its life and after the third transmission, I sold it. I towed a light weight TT with a Dakota and never had an issue. Honda, Nissan and Toyota all have the fair share of problems. I'm currently towing with a 2011 Duramax and haven't had any major problems, (only sensor issues). [/quote]I stand by my statement with absolutely no offence meant to you. It wasn't meant to be infamatory to GM owners so I apologize in that regard. I agree that no manufacturer is perfect, but I was really burned bad. I would at least do some homework on the engine and verify after others have taken the bite that it's trustworthy of any investment of hard earned money. A new engine is always a risk regardless of manufacturer.
Brand/garage space/cost aside I would personnaly be looking at a 1/2 ton prefrerrably a V8. My Nissan Frontier did well with my 16DB, but a larger truck leaves room for growth or towing other larger toys.[/quote]My experience mirrors Todd's. Most things I have no brand loyalty to, including LL, but I have had several bad experiences with GM. I never owned a Dodge so I have no first hand experience with them. Have a brother that swears by Dodge, or did, last time he bought new. I always buy new too but that is probably unimportant in this discussion. What does apply is that I keep my trucks till end of life.
After our last trip, this month, towing the 16DB 5700 miles including the Rockies and Black Hills I must say that I wouldn't want any "smaller" of a vehicle than the 1/2 ton Ford I had for that trip. Round here where I live we do just fine with a smaller less powerful one.
I have no dog in the boosted/blown versus V8 debate but I sprung for the V8 for my uses.
The F150 and similar trucks are a bit too large almost. Mostly reaching into the bed with or without the Leer contractor cap on. This Cargo Glide product helps with that. It is nearly a must... and it has aluminum. Oh, shiny. Not me in the hat by the way.(https://www.jdsupplyllc.com/sites/default/files/products/CG1000-6348_5-CGL.jpg)
[quote timestamp="1464305682" source="/post/21566/thread" author="@davidb"]I have no problem towing on short trips with my 1996 Toyota T-100, out of state trips such as tomorrows trip from Louisiana to Colorado will be with my Tundra with the 4.7 liter.
I'm not too pleased with the 200 mi range with the Tundra and looked at the diesel Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon.
I think it would be perfect for my 6x15 toyhauler, but there are no manufacturer incentives yet.
Those folks that do actual real world tests towing a 5600lb trailer tested the GMC Canyon and it did excellent. Look up The Fast Lane on Youtube, they take a 5600 lb horse trailer and do a 100 mile loop in Colorado with different vehicles.
I'll keep my eye on them for a year or two to see how they perform.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGDIwZkLQuI
[/quote]Thanks for posting that youtube. It was interesting that the "baby" Duramax (as they called it) has an exhaust brake for towing downhill. Pretty cool.
I appreciated all the input. Thank you.
For those that enjoy all this for fun, here's another good video by those guys:
https://youtu.be/AwIBeySukbE
If you are considering diesel, you may want to check out the Ram 1500 Ecodiesel. My 1500 (with 4.7l gas engine) has no problem at all towing my 21BHS all over the country. The Ecodiesel (3L) is supposed to be even better, based on what I've heard from those towing with them. When I replace my 09 Ram, I am going to consider the 3L Ecodiesel.
[quote timestamp="1464891145" source="/post/21873/thread" author="@djsamuel"]If you are considering diesel, you may want to check out the Ram 1500 Ecodiesel. My 1500 (with 4.7l gas engine) has no problem at all towing my 21BHS all over the country. The Ecodiesel (3L) is supposed to be even better, based on what I've heard from those towing with them. When I replace my 09 Ram, I am going to consider the 3L Ecodiesel. [/quote]I went on the forums to read about that new engine a few months ago. I discovered that quite a few people say they're not lasting...dying before they hit 100k miles. I know the internet is where people go to complain but it seemed like I kept running across it and it wasn't just an isolated issue. All that chatter made me steer away from it...
Quote from: @thedusty" source="/post/21890/thread" timestamp="1464989841[quote timestamp="1464891145" author="@djsamuel" source="/post/21873/thread"]If you are considering diesel, you may want to check out the Ram 1500 Ecodiesel. My 1500 (with 4.7l gas engine) has no problem at all towing my 21BHS all over the country. The Ecodiesel (3L) is supposed to be even better, based on what I've heard from those towing with them. When I replace my 09 Ram, I am going to consider the 3L Ecodiesel.
I went on the forums to read about that new engine a few months ago. I discovered that quite a few people say they're not lasting...dying before they hit 100k miles. I know the internet is where people go to complain but it seemed like I kept running across it and it wasn't just an isolated issue. All that chatter made me steer away from it... [/quote]
Here is good video explaining what you found.
https://youtu.be/9XzdYl5iCYQ
Quote from: @kybrowns" source="/post/21896/thread" timestamp="1465009103[quote source="/post/21890/thread" author="@thedusty" timestamp="1464989841"]I went on the forums to read about that new engine a few months ago. I discovered that quite a few people say they're not lasting...dying before they hit 100k miles. I know the internet is where people go to complain but it seemed like I kept running across it and it wasn't just an isolated issue. All that chatter made me steer away from it...
Here is good video explaining what you found.
https://youtu.be/9XzdYl5iCYQ
[/quote]Wow... I honestly don't know enough about engines to pretend I fully understand. Which means I'll likely end up going with a Tundra 5.7L V8...even though is sucks up gas.
The question begs to be asked,,,,,what is DODGE doing about it?
[quote source="/post/22171/thread" author="@pjcd" timestamp="1466015222"]The question begs to be asked,,,,,what is DODGE doing about it?
[/quote]They should give up and replace it with the cummins from the new titan. Nissan probably has an exclusive deal though.
[quote timestamp="1466035161" source="/post/22185/thread" author="@tlbones"][quote timestamp="1466015222" source="/post/22171/thread" author="@pjcd"]The question begs to be asked,,,,,what is DODGE doing about it?
[/quote]They should give up and replace it with the cummins from the new titan. Nissan probably has an exclusive deal though. [/quote]Yes, it is an exclusive deal with Nissan, 5.0l V8 turbo diesel. Dodge is using the 3.0, made by VM Motori, a longtime Italian marine-diesel-engine builder and former affiliate of Fiat. I don't know why they didn't go with Cummins.
This may still be a good engine. I found the video. It sounds like this guy pulls near the maximum often. I could probably find similar video about ford ecoboost engines. Just one example.
Without a doubt, you can find something wrong with just about anything, on the internet......8^)
[quote timestamp="1466035161" source="/post/22185/thread" author="@tlbones"]
Quote from: @pjcd" source="/post/22171/thread" timestamp="1466015222The question begs to be asked,,,,,what is DODGE doing about it?
They should give up and replace it with the cummins from the new titan. Nissan probably has an exclusive deal though. [/quote]I did some reading about the new Nissan Titan. It seems that the MPG wasn't that great all things considered...which is disappointing. If anyone has any contrary thoughts, I'd love to hear them. The Titan/Cummins combo seemed really interesting at first glance.
From what I read, Nissan went for towing over milage, Dodge went the other way, milage over towing, the Cummins is a V8 vs the VM Moto V6.
Quote from: @pjcd" source="/post/22227/thread" timestamp="1466114971From what I read, Nissan went for towing over milage, Dodge went the other way, milage over towing, the Cummins is a V8 vs the VM Moto V6.
Agreed. Nissan is trying to blur the line between 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton capabilities for those who only tow recreationally on the weekend(RVs, boats, etc.) but don't need a huge truck he rest of the time rather than try to compete with the big 3 for the full time 3/4 ton business market (landscapers, construction,etc.)
If thats their game plan, it might fill a nitch, I have to pay a lot more for tolls because i have a 2500 truck, the TBA was ready to pull my easy pass once, I had gone from a 1500 to a 2500 tow vehicle and kept the same easy pass, they stopped me at the toll and told me I had to get the blue easy pass, as opposed to a white one...... I guess this might be greek to anyone not living on the east coast.
[quote timestamp="1466176123" author="@pjcd" source="/post/22244/thread"]If thats their game plan, it might fill a nitch, I have to pay a lot more for tolls because i have a 2500 truck, the TBA was ready to pull my easy pass once, I had gone from a 1500 to a 2500 tow vehicle and kept the same easy pass, they stopped me at the toll and told me I had to get the blue easy pass, as opposed to a white one...... I guess this might be greek to anyone not living on the east coast.[/quote]Not greek to me, but I thought the blue pass was for business vehicles. I still have my white one on my F250 with no comments yet. EDIT to say I just checked the PA turnpike website so at least in PA you don't need the blue commercial transponder unless your GVWR exceeds 15K or you need more than 9 transponders. Your state may be different.
Note that currently the Titan is only offered in the "XD" package which will be their heavier duty option. Next year they will have the Titan LT which will offer a soferter light duty suspension and smaller more fuel efficient engine options.
In NY I have to register my 3/4 ton truck with commercial plates, thats the problem.
Quote from: @pjcd" timestamp="1466197314" source="/post/22266/threadIn NY I have to register my 3/4 ton truck with commercial plates, thats the problem.
Just paint it blue. Problem solved. :) Seriously I bet it would work if you found close to that blue color. If you get caught I guess they might send you to Riker's island for life? I'll be in NY next week (Niagare Falls) camping at Evangola SP.
Niagara falls,,,,,"slowly I turned",,,, never mind, its from an old Abbott & Costello skit. Have fun, I was there a few years back and had a great time, we stayed on the Canadian side.
Step by step...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr6VBg1SiYI