None of the upper orange and red clearance lights on my 16TBS worked when I plugged in the tow vehicle this week for the first time in 6 months.
All of the lower orange and red clearance lights, as well as the tail lights, brake lights, turn signals, and emergency flashers worked just fine.
I assume there is a feed wire(s?) to the upper lights with a bad/loose/corroded/chewed/shorted connector, but in a quick look underneath, no obvious wire jumped out at me. Any hints would be greatly appreciated. Remembering back to my factory tour in 2014, I'm afraid the bad place may be inaccessible since a lot of the wiring is completely hidden in aluminum tubes and in the walls. The clamp type connectors were used exclusively back then and those are notorious for corroding if they get wet.
Quote from: @sandroad" timestamp="1463360940" source="/post/21184/threadNone of the upper orange and red clearance lights on my 16TBS worked when I plugged in the tow vehicle this week for the first time in 6 months.
All of the lower orange and red clearance lights, as well as the tail lights, brake lights, turn signals, and emergency flashers worked just fine.
I assume there is a feed wire(s?) to the upper lights with a bad/loose/corroded/chewed/shorted connector, but in a quick look underneath, no obvious wire jumped out at me. Any hints would be greatly appreciated. Remembering back to my factory tour in 2014, I'm afraid the bad place may be inaccessible since a lot of the wiring is completely hidden in aluminum tubes and in the walls. The clamp type connectors were used exclusively back then and those are notorious for corroding if they get wet.
I may be wrong but I believe the wire enters front left by the orb. For me that would be at the water heater compartment. I hate IDC's and dread that wire chase you speak of that is welded in place. Good luck!
I've worked for a long time now on attempting to find the wiring that goes to the upper clearance lights and no joy. I think it might be in the left rear, but with all the wiring above the floor hidden in the walls or frame, I have no way of finding the bad connection/wire. Probably only the electrician at the factory on the day my TBS lights were wired knew and he/she likely wouldn't remember. They certainly did not follow the convention of brown wire for clearance/tail lights and may have used different wire routing depending on who did the wiring. I would just do without the upper clearance lights but I'm worried that a bad wire/connection will eventually short out and cause other issues. I'll keep at it for a while, but eventually I may just cut the clearance/tail light wire near the trailer plug and run all new wire in wire loom to each of the clearance/tail lights. This is my 6th trailer (2 boat, 2 utility, 1 snowmobile) in my life and if I had a dollar for every hour I've spent on funky trailer wiring over the years, I'd be rich beyond my wildest dreams.
Quote from: @sandroad" source="/post/21345/thread" timestamp="1463767080I've worked for a long time now on attempting to find the wiring that goes to the upper clearance lights and no joy. I think it might be in the left rear, but with all the wiring above the floor hidden in the walls or frame, I have no way of finding the bad connection/wire. Probably only the electrician at the factory on the day my TBS lights were wired knew and he/she likely wouldn't remember. They certainly did not follow the convention of brown wire for clearance/tail lights and may have used different wire routing depending on who did the wiring. I would just do without the upper clearance lights but I'm worried that a bad wire/connection will eventually short out and cause other issues. I'll keep at it for a while, but eventually I may just cut the clearance/tail light wire near the trailer plug and run all new wire in wire loom to each of the clearance/tail lights. This is my 6th trailer (2 boat, 2 utility, 1 snowmobile) in my life and if I had a dollar for every hour I've spent on funky trailer wiring over the years, I'd be rich beyond my wildest dreams.
[font size="3"]From what I see and remember on my 21RBS the rear harness comes up in the right rear corner and crosses in a cable race near the ceiling. Maybe behind the fridge for you? The front lights are wired in the cabinets above the bed, but I don't know where they tie into the 12V system. It would seem that if all your upper lights are out there must be a common point. Given the general accessibility of wiring I doubt there are wires inside the structural tubing. I also have a cable race along the left side ceiling which may carry the lighting circuits. It's all easily accessible. [/font]
[quote timestamp="1463768565" source="/post/21348/thread" author="@charliem"]
Quote from: @sandroad" source="/post/21345/thread" timestamp="1463767080I've worked for a long time now on attempting to find the wiring that goes to the upper clearance lights and no joy. I think it might be in the left rear, but with all the wiring above the floor hidden in the walls or frame, I have no way of finding the bad connection/wire. Probably only the electrician at the factory on the day my TBS lights were wired knew and he/she likely wouldn't remember. They certainly did not follow the convention of brown wire for clearance/tail lights and may have used different wire routing depending on who did the wiring. I would just do without the upper clearance lights but I'm worried that a bad wire/connection will eventually short out and cause other issues. I'll keep at it for a while, but eventually I may just cut the clearance/tail light wire near the trailer plug and run all new wire in wire loom to each of the clearance/tail lights. This is my 6th trailer (2 boat, 2 utility, 1 snowmobile) in my life and if I had a dollar for every hour I've spent on funky trailer wiring over the years, I'd be rich beyond my wildest dreams.
[font size="3"]From what I see and remember on my 21RBS the rear harness comes up in the right rear corner and crosses in a cable race near the ceiling. Maybe behind the fridge for you? The front lights are wired in the cabinets above the bed, but I don't know where they tie into the 12V system. It would seem that if all your upper lights are out there must be a common point. Given the general accessibility of wiring I doubt there are wires inside the structural tubing. I also have a cable race along the left side ceiling which may carry the lighting circuits. It's all easily accessible. [/font]
[/quote]Thanks for the ideas. Not to be ornery, but you and I have different definitions of "easily accessible" :P . I've spent the better part of day chasing DC circuits and it's really tough. There are many clamp-type wire connectors that I can see, but can't get at. In my 16TBS, some of the DC wiring does run in the structural tubing; for example all the DC wiring on the right side of the trailer from the door to the front of the trailer runs inside the structural tubing along the top (over the kitchen and TV and over-bed cabinets). As an aside, the tubing has very jagged cuts where the wiring enters and exits, with no wire loom protection. There are many places in the bottom frame of the trailer where wires disappear into, and runs through, structural tubing. The main harness from the trailer plug comes across the bottom of the trailer and after various splices for wires to the brakes, it disappears in the main side-tubing in the left rear. I did remove all the raceways over the fridge and in the shower to see if I could find the clearance light supply wire, but that apparently comes from an inaccessible place near the slide-out. I had originally hoped that all the wires in the rear bumper would hold a clue, but nope. At least now I know where I can run new clearance light wiring if it comes to that. Tomorrow I'm going to open back up the electrical cabinet under the sink, but I'm 98% certain that no external trailer light wiring runs through there. I have an antique kerosene marker light for a boat that is supposed to be wind-proof. I guess I could attach that to the top rear and be done with this.
[font size="3"]Not only do we have different definitions of easily accessible, I think we have different definitions of CLs. One of the things that impresses me about the CL is how all wiring and plumbing is accessible. I've not traced all wires like you're doing, but everything I've done I've found in accessible wire looms, inside and below the trailer. The only place I haven't looked is in the ceiling. Almost seems like a cultural shift occurred at LL between my 2014 and your 2015. RIP, Scott Tuttle.
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Not only is some of the wiring in structural tubing in our 16'er but inside the overhead pantry cabinet, which would be over your slides, the wiring chase is welded in place. And it is jam packed with no room in it for even a couple speaker wires. This coupled with Merlin's assessment of jagged edges and IDC connectors is a recipe for disaster.
When I routed the sat rad antenna I had to add an 3' run of new Al to cover the wire because a new direction must be found. Good thing they come with 20' of lead.
Must say that LL did a good job of concealing all the wiring but adding more or tracing a fault can be a bear.
Victory! I have upper clearance lights. I finally found the wires that feed those lights and from there it was "easy". On my 16TBS those wires (one brown and one white) emerge from the main trailer wiring harness under the extreme left rear of the trailer, via inaccessible connectors well hidden over the black tank. They then run to a hole in the floor just to the rear of the slide and enter the trailer along with some AC wiring and the shower plumbing. From there, they run up inside the shower wall and emerge in the raceway over the top left front of the shower (All left-right directions are from facing forward in the trailer.) In that raceway were IDC (clamp-type) connectors splicing additional wire on both the positive and negative leads that had become damp enough in the shower raceway to corrode and lose connection. I replaced them with crimp-type heat-shrink connectors and voila!, the lights worked. I hope this is the last of my problems with the IDC connectors all over the trailer, but based on long experience with their corrosion potential in any damp/wet situation, I fear not.
Thanks Charlie and Whoofit for moral support; it's cathartic to rant and have someone to bounce ideas off of.
And forgot to add that from the shower corner, the wires run in raceway and structural tubing all the way around the upper inside of the trailer to feed all 9 upper clearance lights.
[font size="3"]Merlin,
Super glad you found and fixed the problem. A big load off your mind, lower blood pressure, and a much better outlook on life! I had to look up IDC connector since I was unfamiliar with that term. When I found Insulation Displacement/Piercing I knew you had a problem. I don't recall seeing any such things on my CL. However, I have tried similar ones, called suitcase or tapping connectors, and had lots of trouble even without water. Now I use nothing but crimps or good old solder.
Camp on!
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Merlin, Just think of all the rest of the IDC's on there. I was especially fond of the ones in my brake wiring that came off looking like toothpaste...towing in the winter in New England is the real world definition of salt spray testing so common in the electronics industry. If I haven't seen thirty of them on the trailer I haven't seen one. Inner melt heat shrink and solder. I should buy stock in them.
Glad you got it sorted and now I will pull the corner off the shower and have a look at mine.
Hello Merlin,
We are having the same problem as you had with the marker lights on our 2016 21RBS.
I have removed the wiring chase covers in the rear bath ceiling and am now able to access the upper marker light wiring.
I noticed the use of IDC connectors at every light and even for splices in the main wires.
I gently tugged on each connection to check for tightness.
How did you check for corrosion within the connection?
And how did you check for continuity/good circuit?
Thank you for your assistance.
- David.
For mine, it was a splice in the main wiring that was bad, not a splice to a light. I found it easiest to test the circuits with 12 volts supplied to the lights, which I did by plugging in my tow vehicle and turning on the clearance lights. Once I found the route of the wiring, it was fairly (relatively speaking) easy to open each connector and check for voltage in/out with my volt meter. The IDC's in my 16 can be gently pried open with a flat blade screwdriver to expose the innards and then clipped back closed securely if they are ok. (If you break or bend them too much, you'll have to replace them.) I assume the wiring in the 21 does does the same circuitous route and goes through those raceways in the shower to all the clearance lights on top. Start with the first IDC in the that location and go from there? With any luck, you'll find the same problem as I did and the first IDC splice in that main wire (toward the front of the trailer) will be bad. You can't tell a bad connection by pulling on it, unless it's completely coming apart.
Thank you very much for your quick reply and additional suggestions.
Only problem is the TV fuse immediately pops as soon as I turn on the lights.
I have since tested the TV harness on another trailer with no issues, all lights positive function.
Then to confirm, I inserted a 15A fuse between 3 & 4 on the 7 prong trailer wiring harness (to power trailer running lights from trailer battery) and that fuse immediately blew. So appears to be a dead short somewhere in that circuit.
Thank you again.
- David
Bummer. You have a different problem than I did. I think you're right, the clearance light wire has a short. I'll guess you don't have any clearance or tail lights on the trailer. Here are a couple ideas......
Many trailer wiring problems are with the plug itself or its connections. Has the plug been damaged? Have you looked in the junction box on the tongue where the plug wiring connects to the trailer for loose or shorted joint?
LL doesn't use wire loom on most of the 12V wiring that's hidden. There are lots of jagged edges on wiring holes cut in the aluminum frame and the clearance light wire insulation may have been cut and shorted. Carefully look at all the places you can find where wires go through the frame and tape up what you can.
I don't think anyone else on the forum has reported this particular problem. Hopefully some electrical gurus on here will have other ideas.
Otherwise, you may be headed to an RV dealer for repair.
Yes. You are correct: no clearance or tail lights.
Only turn signal indicator lights, brake lights, and emergency flashers.
I will do as you suggest and check for cut wires and loose connection on the tongue.
Otherwise, it's off to the dealer for a warranty service call.
Thanks again for taking the time to troubleshoot with me.
Regards,
- David.
Try this technique to narrow your search. Safety first, remove the TT power by unplugging AC and disconnecting the battery. Using an Ohmmeter, connect one lead to the plug or some other predetermined point in the circuit. Connect the other lead to the frame or trailer body and look for a low(er) resistance reading. Have a helper watch the meter while you tug wiggle and twist the wiring. If you're lucky you'll be able to see the meter change values when you hit the right spot.
Thank you James.
Will try this out.
Regards,
- David.