[p]Some interesting reading. [a href="https://rv-pro.com/news/k-z-brings-livin-lite-fold"]https://rv-pro.com/news/k-z-brings-livin-lite-fold[/a] [a href="https://rv-pro.com/news/livin-lite-leaves-wakarusa"]https://rv-pro.com/news/livin-lite-leaves-Wakarusa[/a] [a href="https://rv-pro.com/news/k-z-breaks-ground-80750-square-foot-lamination-facility"]https://rv-pro.com/news/k-z-breaks-ground-80750-square-foot-lamination-facility[/a] [a href="https://rv-pro.com/news/thor-quick-move-k-z-rv-expansion"]https://rv-pro.com/news/thor-quick-move-k-z-rv-expansion[/a] A lot more articles to read on the RV Pro website.[/p]
Interesting. K-Z is another Thor subsidiary. Given K-Z's emphasis on smaller & lightweight models & laminated construction it perhaps makes more sense for them to manage Livin'Lite than the Cross-Roads division of Thor that managed Livin'Lite after the aquisition & move to Topeka. I wonder if the failure of the Livin'Lite 5th wheel models had anything to do with this change?
This might be why it was announced on the LivinLite Facebook page this morning that the Quicksilver VRV line will no longer have aluminum exterior side walls. Now laminated sides...
Ave et Vale, Camplite !
And to think it was just a little while ago I was concerned with having wood cabinets in my future CL. Aluminum is gone from the cabinets first, then the roof, then sidewalls (in VRV). I wonder how much longer will the floor and framing be aluminum?
[quote source="/post/19123/thread" timestamp="1456981640" author="@aggie79"]And to think it was just a little while ago I was concerned with having wood cabinets in my future CL. Aluminum is gone from the cabinets first, then the roof, then sidewalls (in VRV). I wonder how much longer will the floor and framing be aluminum? [/quote]Definitely the floor first.
[quote timestamp="1456973273" author="@pinstriper" source="/post/19117/thread"]Ave et Vale, Camplite !
[/quote]That about sums it up for me! ???
[quote timestamp="1456981640" author="@aggie79" source="/post/19123/thread"]And to think it was just a little while ago I was concerned with having wood cabinets in my future CL. Aluminum is gone from the cabinets first, then the roof, then sidewalls (in VRV). I wonder how much longer will the floor and framing be aluminum? [/quote]The aluminum is still there. Here is the explanation from the Facebook page:
" It is still the exact same aluminum exterior. Prior standard construction was screwed 49" wide vertical sheets, or an optional for screwless that utilized 3M VHB tape. Now standard construction is to run the aluminum metal horizontally and laminate the wall... another added bonus is the 2.7mm Azdel under the metal that adds an additional R-Value of 2!"
[quote timestamp="1457009874" source="/post/19126/thread" author="@djsamuel"]The aluminum is still there. Here is the explanation from the Facebook page:
" It is still the exact same aluminum exterior. Prior standard construction was screwed 49" wide vertical sheets, or an optional for screwless that utilized 3M VHB tape. Now standard construction is to run the aluminum metal horizontally and laminate the wall... [font size="4"]another added bonus is the 2.7mm Azdel under the metal that adds an additional R-Value of 2!"[/font][/quote][font size="3"]Azdel is a low density polypropylene + fiberglass foam core material. Thermal resistance data is scarce, but the major distributor claims 3X better wood. Wood varies, but is around R1/inch. Fiberglass batt house insulation is R3-R4 per inch with some high density foams claiming R6/inch. 2.7mm is 0.1 inch. Using R3/inch (3X wood) and 0.1 inch I'd believe R0.3, NOT R2. But when your selling who's counting? [/font]:(
Quote from: @djsamuel" source="/post/19125/thread" timestamp="1457009704[quote timestamp="1456973273" author="@pinstriper" source="/post/19117/thread"]Ave et Vale, Camplite !
That about sums it up for me! ??? [/quote]It's literature. Google it !
[quote source="/post/19104/thread" timestamp="1456958029" author="@peislander"]Interesting. K-Z is another Thor subsidiary. Given K-Z's emphasis on smaller & lightweight models & laminated construction it perhaps makes more sense for them to manage Livin'Lite than the Cross-Roads division of Thor that managed Livin'Lite after the aquisition & move to Topeka. I wonder if the failure of the Livin'Lite 5th wheel models had anything to do with this change?[/quote]All-
It has been an eventful week in the industry, to be sure!
Given K-Z'a specialty in smaller, lightweight units...there's plenty of reason to feel hopeful about upcoming changes (or lack thereof) to the brand. I haven't had a chance to talk to many folks over at K-Z yet, but am choosing to stay positive!
The change was made due to CrossRoad's/Redwood/Livin Lite president Andy Cripe's resignation about a month ago. While he was with our company, he oversaw all three companies out of the same headquarters. Since he resigned, CrossRoads and Redwood have been absorbed by Keystone RV, and Livin Lite by K-Z. The new President of CrossRoads is JUST overseeing CrossRoads and Redwood, which is why Livin Lite is moving to KZ.
As I know more info, I will update you guys ASAP :-)
For the time being...Let's all send positive vibes towards KZ and hope that they are interested in maintaining the Livin Lite so many of you guys know and love! :) You've been vocal about the things about the product that are most important to our owners, and that can do nothing but help!
Wished Livin Lite had been absorbed by Keystone instead, a non-Thor entity.
Quote from: @christianm" source="/post/19136/thread" timestamp="1457022296[quote timestamp="1456958029" author="@peislander" source="/post/19104/thread"]Interesting. K-Z is another Thor subsidiary. Given K-Z's emphasis on smaller & lightweight models & laminated construction it perhaps makes more sense for them to manage Livin'Lite than the Cross-Roads division of Thor that managed Livin'Lite after the aquisition & move to Topeka. I wonder if the failure of the Livin'Lite 5th wheel models had anything to do with this change?
All-
It has been an eventful week in the industry, to be sure!
Given K-Z'a specialty in smaller, lightweight units...there's plenty of reason to feel hopeful about upcoming changes (or lack thereof) to the brand. I haven't had a chance to talk to many folks over at K-Z yet, but am choosing to stay positive!
The change was made due to CrossRoad's/Redwood/Livin Lite president Andy Cripe's resignation about a month ago. While he was with our company, he oversaw all three companies out of the same headquarters. Since he resigned, CrossRoads and Redwood have been absorbed by Keystone RV, and Livin Lite by K-Z. The new President of CrossRoads is JUST overseeing CrossRoads and Redwood, which is why Livin Lite is moving to KZ.
As I know more info, I will update you guys ASAP :-)
For the time being...Let's all send positive vibes towards KZ and hope that they are interested in maintaining the Livin Lite so many of you guys know and love! :) You've been vocal about the things about the product that are most important to our owners, and that can do nothing but help!
[/quote]Thanks for the update. Whew! I'm going to be in Middlebury this weekend. I guess I should swing through Shipshewana and leave those positive vibes ;)
Quote from: @pinstriper" source="/post/19134/thread" timestamp="1457019543[quote timestamp="1457009704" source="/post/19125/thread" author="@djsamuel"]That about sums it up for me! ???
It's literature. Google it ![/quote]I did and hence my answer. Hail and farewell.
[quote timestamp="1457050623" source="/post/19151/thread" author="@gwbushhog"]Wished Livin Lite had been absorbed by Keystone instead, a non-Thor entity.[/quote]Keystone is owned by Thor.
So now I am pondering two questions:
1.What has happened to Livin'Lite General Manager Ryan Spencer?
2.The new Ford brand of RVs is supposed to be made by Livin'Lite. Where will they be made?
[quote source="/post/19334/thread" timestamp="1457492813" author="@leslie"]The new Ford brand of RVs is supposed to be made by Livin'Lite. Where will they be made?[/quote]I presume they'll still be made by Livin'Lite. Unless you know something I don't, it's not like Livin'Lite cease to exist. They are just overseen by Thor's K-Z division instead of Thor's Cross-Roads division --- and that could be a good thing. Time will tell. I don't see why many here a so pessimistic about this latest change.
I think many of the most active users around here are original owners and more towards the purest side of the spectrum. With the changes that have already been announced and the rapid change of hands I think a lot of people are bracing for the worst. I still am holding out hope for the best but if I'm honest I think LL as a brand has already started straying from the major factors that made them well worth the premium price. I can see some of the justifications made, like the argument for the change in material/methodology for the siding on the toy haulers. However on the flip side I have not seen any real positive arguments for the upcoming change to the roofing.
In the end Thor/KZ/LL will do what is best for the company as they see it. With any luck their vision will match with what the market wants and I personally hope the market wants more of the original LL design rather than industry standard.
-Sean
[quote source="/post/19334/thread" author="@leslie" timestamp="1457492813"]So now I am pondering two questions:
1.What has happened to Livin'Lite General Manager Ryan Spencer?
2.The new Ford brand of RVs is supposed to be made by Livin'Lite. Where will they be made?[/quote]1. Unknown. There hasn't been any outreach. [span style="font-size:13.3333px;"]R-u-n-n-o-f-t ? [/span]
It is very clear that this community is of zero importance to them.[span style="font-size:13.3333px;"] [/span][span style="font-size:13.3333px;"]No one has shown up here to say "Hey, I'm the new Christian." or "we're still coming". Hell, they still have the rally registration form up on their website, with instructions to send to Christian. They probably won't do us the courtesy of announcing it is cancelled, but will simply no-show.[/span][span style="font-size:13.3333px;"]Hell, they probably aren't even aware of the thing.
[/span]
If I had more time on my hands, I would call each day asking for her and asking how to register for the rally. I'd have a new name to add to the list each time, mind you. Just to make someone uncomfortable. Alas, no such time on my hands.
2. China, made by child labor.
The KZ web site includes info. on what I think is their lightest camper , the Spree. The specs. state that it has an "Alum-A-Tough Roofing w/12 Year Limited Warranty". I looked at the specs of a few other lines that they manufacture, and they don't mention this type of roof. No information regarding what this is made of. Probably the roofing version of the synthetic 'leather' that upscale rv's have. Who knows.
[quote source="/post/19462/thread" timestamp="1457711671" author="@farmboy"]The KZ web site includes info. on what I think is their lightest camper , the Spree. The specs. state that it has an "Alum-A-Tough Roofing w/12 Year Limited Warranty". I looked at the specs of a few other lines that they manufacture, and they don't mention this type of roof. No information regarding what this is made of. Probably the roofing version of the synthetic 'leather' that upscale rv's have. Who knows.
[/quote][font size="3"]Aluminum rafters with 3/8" wood decking and TPO rubber roof. Standard 12 yr warranty against improper installation and/or defective material. No warranty on rips, punctures.
[a href="http://www.kz-rv.com/products/spree-travel-trailers/features.html"]http://www.kz-rv.com/products/spree-travel-trailers/features.html[/a]
[/font]
I did not include the entire name of the unit with "Alum-A.Tough Roofing" ; it is the Spree Escape. In the end, it may be the same material but with a different name. As they say, a rose is a rose by any other name.
I tried to find information on it on Google, and the closest thing I came up with was a roofing material sold in buckets with aluminum fibers in it; for buildings, not rv's.
Here is the link for the KZ rv with the "Alum-A-Tough" roofing:
http://www.kz-rv.com/products/spree-escape-travel-trailers/features.html
It is interesting that they use "alum' and "tough" in an effort to give the roofing a positive description.
[font size="3"]I think the Escape is the low end of the Spree series. Spree at the top, Spree Connect in the middle, and Spree Escape at the bottom. The Connect uses the same TPO/decking system, but with wood trusses. The Escape web site is not as detailed or current, but it's probably some variant of the other two.
[a href="http://www.kz-rv.com/products/spree-connect-travel-trailers/features.html"]http://www.kz-rv.com/products/spree-connect-travel-trailers/features.html[/a]
[/font]
[quote source="/post/19447/thread" timestamp="1457666055" author="@pinstriper"]1. Unknown. There hasn't been any outreach. [span style="font-size:13.3333px;"]R-u-n-n-o-f-t ? [/span]
[/quote]R-u-n-n-o-f-t Did you watch the movie "O Brother Where Art Thou" with George Clooney, by chance?
We were out riding the motorcycle today and stopped at an RV dealer to stretch our legs & rest room stop. They had Venture RVs there. Venture's parent company is KZ, Inc. Looked at two toy haulers, Sporttrek and they both had Alpha Ply roof (looked like rubber) with 3/8" walkable roof material and 5/8" tongue & groove wood floors.
http://www.venture-rv.com/about-us.html
http://www.venture-rv.com/sporttrek-travel-trailers-and-toy-haulers/construction.html
[quote source="/post/19473/thread" timestamp="1457737563" author="@exploringcarolina"]We were out riding the motorcycle today and stopped at an RV dealer to stretch our legs & rest room stop. They had Venture RVs there. Venture's parent company is KZ, Inc. Looked at two toy haulers, Sporttrek and they both had Alpha Ply roof (looked like rubber) with 3/8" walkable roof material and 5/8" tongue & groove wood floors.
[/quote][font size="3"]Were you surprised? Looks very similar to the KZ Spree series construction diagrams.[/font]
Quote from: @charliem" timestamp="1457747910" source="/post/19478/thread[quote timestamp="1457737563" author="@exploringcarolina" source="/post/19473/thread"]We were out riding the motorcycle today and stopped at an RV dealer to stretch our legs & rest room stop. They had Venture RVs there. Venture's parent company is KZ, Inc. Looked at two toy haulers, Sporttrek and they both had Alpha Ply roof (looked like rubber) with 3/8" walkable roof material and 5/8" tongue & groove wood floors.
[font size="3"]Were you surprised? Looks very similar to the KZ Spree series construction diagrams.[/font]
[/quote]Was not surprised. Our previous camper had a wood floor and wood rot. We have been spoiled by our all aluminum construction 2010 Mighty 11 and don't plan to go back to wood structured campers. Learned about a local camper repair shop that replaces non-metal roofs with one piece aluminum sheet metal roofs for a permanent solution for non-metal roof issues.
Quote from: @djsamuel" source="/post/19203/thread" timestamp="1457178875Quote from: @gwbushhog" source="/post/19151/thread" timestamp="1457050623Wished Livin Lite had been absorbed by Keystone instead, a non-Thor entity.
Keystone is owned by Thor.
Correction noted. Forest River was intended. My Better Half is about to finish RV tech training, so we're learning lots along with attending RV shows in FL. Truthfully, after awhile, most RV products begin to merge in the mind as one and the same. Maybe Thor's overall market strategy? To date, there are a handful of non-Thor RV mfrs. where a tad more concern for quality, detail and consumer satisfaction exists. Forest River is such a manufacturer.