Sorry for not knowing this yet, but we just got our camper and haven't camped in it yet. I can't remember what the dealer guy told us during our orientation when we picked it up regarding starting the hot water heater. I know that I first have to put the anode plug in (after flushing the pink antifreeze out of the water lines), and I know that there is a switch inside the camper next to the stove that says "Gas Water Heater" above the switch, but that's about all I can remember. Also, it's a dual HWH (gas & electric) in our 21BHS, so how do you run it on only electricity (if we wanted to run it that way)? Does that one switch turn it on for either way? Lastly, can we run it both ways at the same time to shorten the heat-up/recovery time? Any help you guys can provide me will be greatly appreciated, as we're getting ready to leave for a trip.
Thanks! Gregg
[font size="3"]After you replace the anode you should make sure the bypass valves are properly set. This means both the side valves are ON and the cross valve is OFF. A valve is ON when the handle aligns with the pipe. It is OFF when the handle is crosswise to the pipe.
Second you should make sure the WH is full. Do this by connecting the water source and running a hot water faucet until all the air is out and water is flowing. This is VERY important to prevent damage to the electric element.
The inside switch with the red light next to it controls the gas side of the heater. When you first turn it on the red light will come on and stay on until the burner lights, usually less than 30 seconds.
There is a small black rocker switch inside the WH enclosure, accessible from the outside compartment of the WH. Open the door and turn it on. There is also a switch for the WH inside the camper. It looks like a regular residential light switch, but it has a red handle and lights up red when it's on. This controls the electric side of the WH.
The gas and electric sides of the WH are independent. If both are on the recovery time will be roughly half that of one side. The thermostats are such that the electric side will override the gas side and prevent the gas burner from cycling. The saves propane until it is needed for fast recovery. If you are plugged in and want to run on electricity only you just turn off the gas switch on the wall.
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Thanks Charlie. That's very helpful and should be easy to follow. Appreciate your quick response. Will have to wait until we are on the road and into a warmer climate zone before we de-winterize our camper and try this! Thanks again!
Charlie - I just went out into the camper to look at the switches near our stove and the picture below is all we've got for the water heater. From your instructions it sounds like there should be two switches..... one for electric and one for gas. Is that what I've got here? If so, can you determine which one is for electric and which one is for gas?
[attachment id="1062" thumbnail="1"]
[font size="3"]Gregg,
The switch you pictured is for the gas side of the WH. It controls only the gas burner. You mentioned your WH is dual mode. Are you sure? If it is there will be red handled switch somewhere in the camper. In my 2014 21RBS it is near the entry door, but the 21BHS is a bit different and LL keeps making small changes. Another way to tell is to look at the circuit breakers. There should be a 15Amp breaker labeled water heater, providing LL did the labeling correctly. Check and report back. I'm here all night 8-)
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Maybe it's just gas-only because I just went back out there and I don't see any other switches in the camper (and nothing with a red lever on it). It was supposed to be a dual gas/electric WH, as that is what LL said was coming as standard now in the new CampLite's (along with the solid countertop, stainless steel sink, and black tank flusher). Also, I looked at the water heater from outside the camper (opened the outside door to the WH) and didn't see any switches in there (which I believe you said would be out there if it were capable of operating on electric as well). So maybe they just gave us a gas-only WH.
Charlie - I forgot to check the fuse box for a circuit labeled Water Heater, so I just went out again and did that.... and yes, there is a 15 amp circuit that I see labeled there for Water Heater. So maybe the switches I showed you in the picture are for handling both? Otherwise, I'm not seeing a switch somewhere.
[font size="3"]You're probably right. The little black switch in the outside compartment is easy to miss, but the acid test is the WH model number. The gas/electric model is SW6DE. The E denotes electric. The gas only model is SWD.
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The model number is SW6DE and I think I found the little black switch in the outside panel. So it seems as if it's a dual model, but just no separate red-handled switch inside.
[font size="3"]That's a good sign. If the model number checks out and you still can't find the red switch I'll post a picture to help you.
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Thanks and again, I found a circuit labeled WAter Heater in the circuit breakers. I also looked at the exterior of the WH from inside the camper (where the bypass valves are) and didn't see a red switch in there either, so maybe what I showed you in the pic is all they are providing now. It's a dual unit, so I will I follow your instructions when we get on the road and let you know how it goes. Thanks!
[font size="3"]OK. The red handled switch has to be there, unless LL really screwed up. The switch is the same size as a standard single household light switch, probably with a black or brown face plate. Only the handle is red and it lights up when on. It may be in a strange place.
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OK. I will keep looking for it. See my last comments above which I edited and added more sentences to while you were sending your last response. Could it be that the switch they provided (in the picture) is all they are giving us now?
Not that this is helpful, but on my 16, the factory location for the red electric element switch is only about a foot off the floor, on the outside of the under-bed cabinet where the water heater is. It's not directly visible when the slide is in.
[font size="3"]Gregg,
Here's what you're looking for:
[attachment id="1063" thumbnail="1"]
It may be in some strange place, but it won't be hidden. It must be convenient and accessible. The switch you've found is only for the gas side.
Merlin: Thanks for jumping in. Maybe someone with a new 21BHS will join us with current info.
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[font size="3"]Check by the door below the counter and next to the stove. I guess it's possible they changed to a black unlighted switch to save a few cents. Thor, you know!
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[quote source="/post/17422/thread" timestamp="1451696599" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]Check by the door below the counter and next to the stove. I guess it's possible they changed to a black unlighted switch to save a few cents. Thor, you know!
[/font][/quote]Or saving the entire cost by forgetting to put it in? Question out of curiosity: Can you see the water heater model number by opening the exterior cover?
[quote source="/post/17425/thread" author="@tlbones" timestamp="1451703837"]Or saving the entire cost by forgetting to put it in? Question out of curiosity: Can you see the water heater model number by opening the exterior cover? [/quote][font size="3"]Gregg has verified the model number and located the circuit breaker. It is the SW6DE. It is possible LL Thor has deleted the red switch. The WH can be wired and used without it; Forest River does not put one in their RPODs. However it's much less convenient and even a bit dangerous to the heating element if it's not there, but it is possible. I think a call to the factory is in order. [/font]
After doing another search thru the entire trailer this evening (inside and out), I was not able to locate said switch. I will call the factory on Monday to find out what is going on, as I doubt that the dealer will know (although I will call them tomorrow just in case they can help). Will keep you guys posted.
Quote from: @tlbones" source="/post/17425/thread" timestamp="1451703837Question out of curiosity: Can you see the water heater model number by opening the exterior cover?
tlbones- yes, you can determine the model number of the water heater by opening up the outside panel and looking at the sticker on the wall inside.
[quote source="/post/17429/thread" author="@gbpack" timestamp="1451706821"][quote source="/post/17425/thread" author="@tlbones" timestamp="1451703837"] Question out of curiosity: Can you see the water heater model number by opening the exterior cover? [/quote]
tlbones- yes, you can determine the model number of the water heater by opening up the outside panel and looking at the sticker on the wall inside. [/quote]Thanks... I am almost certain mine is not dual gas/electric, but you got me wanting to double check.
Good luck in your quest for answers. I agree with charliem the safest way is to have a readily available switch. If deleted hopefully it's not too much of a hassle to retrofit one.
We picked up our new 2015 bhs on November 15 of this year. It has the red toggle light switch next to the gas heat water switch. Both are side by side under the microwave. When we went through the new camper orientation, the salesman showed me the water heater under the bunk bed. I asked what the three valves were for. One was on the blue pipe going into the heater and one on the red pipe exiting the heater. The third valve was jammed together with another pipe. The salesman said the purpose of the third pipe was to help the water heat up faster. After reading the forum, I guess that the third valve is a bypass of the water heater that is used to winterize the water pipes? Is there away to check that it was installed correctly?
Quote from: @scbillandjane" source="/post/17438/thread" timestamp="1451776702It has the red toggle light switch next to the gas heat water switch. Both are side by side under the microwave.
Your switch probably looks like the one in the picture I posted above. The general consensus is that that switch is only for the propane gas side of the water heater, and that there should be another switch with a red handle/lever that lights up red when you turn it on (which is for the electric side of the WH if you have a dual gas/electric WH. See comments above to determine whether you have a dual unit). I am currently looking into the switch situation and will get back to everyone soon. I'll let one of the other guys comment about the valves and the questions you have regarding those.
[font size="3"]The third valve should go between the red and blue (inlet and outlet) pipes on the side of the other two valves away from the WH. Its sole purpose is to allow antifreeze to bypass the WH during winterization. For winterization it should be open; the other two are closed. What can I say about salesmen?
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[quote source="/post/17438/thread" timestamp="1451776702" author="@scbillandjane"]We picked up our new 2015 bhs on November 15 of this year. It has the red toggle light switch next to the gas heat water switch. Both are side by side under the microwave. When we went through the new camper orientation, the salesman showed me the water heater under the bunk bed. I asked what the three valves were for. One was on the blue pipe going into the heater and one on the red pipe exiting the heater. The third valve was jammed together with another pipe. The salesman said the purpose of the third pipe was to help the water heat up faster. After reading the forum, I guess that the third valve is a bypass of the water heater that is used to winterize the water pipes? Is there away to check that it was installed correctly? [/quote]If you could post a photo, someone here could tell you if was installed correctly. Otherwise, use Charlie's description of the piping/valving.
A photo of the red water heater electric element switch on a 28 is a few posts down in this thread.
http://livinlite-owners.com/thread/1439/new-owner-member-western-washington?page=1&scrollTo=14453
Guys - I talked with the dealer today and the guy who took us through our orientation (who seems pretty knowledgeable and is a real good guy) said that he heard that LL isn't putting in the red switches for the electric side of the water heater any longer. Probably a cost-cutting move. He assured me that there wouldn't be any problem using the WH on electricity without that switch, so for the upcoming trip we will just have to turn it on and off outside the camper by lifting the WH panel and using the toggle switch to turn it on & off. We may decide to have the dealer install the red switch inside of the camper later after we get back from our trip, as it would be handy to be able to turn it on & off from inside the camper, as well as see when it is on. For now, we'll just have to be very careful and remember when it is on. I guess as long as the WH tank is full of water, then we'll be OK. Any other suggestions at this point?
[font size="3"]Thank you very much, Thor. One more change under the "no changes" policy. The lack of the red switch is not the end of the world, just an end to one more nicety. We ex-RPODers learned to use the circuit breaker as a switch, leaving the outside switch on. A lot more convenient than going outside to check if you remembered to turn it on or off. Just make sure you have the right breaker, but there are only six. During the camping season there's really no reason to turn it off. It will run on electricity when it's available and switch to gas when it's not. I just use it to turn off the WH when it sits in the driveway plugged in. Still best to turn it off outside when you winterize.
Adding the switch inside is not impossible. The hardest part will be tracing and rerouting the 120V wiring. You might be able to buy the switch from LL or shame them into giving it to you. On nice thing about CL is all the wiring is generally exposed, accessible, and in wire loom. Keep us posted.
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Thanks Charlie. That's good advice about using the circuit breaker for a switch, but you're right about probably not needing to do that very often while out camping. As you point out, the key will be remembering to turn it off once we return from a trip and connect to shore power. I will see how it goes on this upcoming trip before deciding whether to have the dealer install one (as that might be a little trickier than I thought). Thanks again for all of your great help on this. Hopefully we won't uncover anything else!
This is Joan and I have an inquiring mind.
Why is it different camping vs in the drive way? What I mean is, why can the WH switch be on when plugged in during a camping trip vs sitting plugged in on the driveway? Is it because the WH will be in use during the trip? Thank you for your help sorting this whole issue out for us Charlie M,, Merlin, etal.
If you have your HWH turned on in the driveway then you will be at the least heating water you do not need (unless you plan on taking showers or doing dishes in your driveway), is hard on the heating element to run continuously for no reason, and if your HWH is empty or only partially full of water it can damage the heating element.
[font size="3"]Just wasting energy and $$$, Joan.
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Thanks. That's what Gregg said, but I wanted to be sure there wasn't something we hadn't considered.
On a side note.. I have left mine on in the driveway before for the whole season... my electric bill suffered no noticeable change. I didn't do it on purpose.
FYI, I called Livin Lite yesterday and spoke with Don N. in the warranty department about the lack of an interior red water heater switch. He said that they discontinued using these switches recently because of the manufacturer's recommendation. The manufacturer of the water heater was at their factory recently and they were reviewing everything together related to the water heater. The mfg'r questioned LL's use of the interior switch saying that it was redundant and confusing to some campers/owners because of the need to coordinate both switches in order to operate the electric side of the WH. So they made the decision to discontinue using those switches. That was Don's explanation of it, but I think it was a cost-cutting measure as well. I told him that having the switch was both a safety measure and convenience for the owners who have them and that they had no problem using them. I didn't get much of a response from him on that. So I guess we (Joan & I) will have to decide whether or not we want to have the dealer try to retrofit one into our trailer.
Redundant yes, confusing I call BS. Who wants to have to go outside, open up the water heater cover, flip the switch and put the cover back on. If anything people would always leave the outside switch on and completely control it from the nice, lighted, inside switch.
[font size="3"]That's pure bunk, but it is imaginative. Blame it on Suburban. The only confusion occurs when LL fails to label the switch. Confusion also occurs when I have to crawl on the floor to figure out which breaker runs the WH. Customers 0, bean counters +5.
Now LL should have a surplus of surface mount switches so you might be able to get one. It looks like they used a surface mount switch in the thin wall between kitchen and bunks in the BHS. As I said previously, the hardest part will be running the wire. Hopefully it can be done easily. There is no hard reason why it must be on that wall. Good luck.
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I finally found that damn on off switch inside the hot water heater panel outside the trailer. I could only see two reset buttons but not the of off switch. When we got home I called Sunny Island and asked them about it. Yes there is a switch there, mine was covered by a silver piece of tape and I found it looking one more time. it is on the lower left-hand side of the outside hot water heater panel. One thing I discovered on our last trip is propane will heat the water for a shower in about 5 minutes. I was told to heat the water with propane then turn off the propane switch and turn on electric switch. We did this but water was cold in ghe morning. Now that I have found the switch, our guy at Sunny Island told me to turn the switch on and then turn off the HWH via the fuse panel inside the trialer when not in use. We have had the trailer 10 months, 10 trips, 6000 miles and still learning about how thing work!
[quote source="/post/18765/thread" timestamp="1455675288" author="@montedtrotter1"]Now that I have found the switch, our guy at Sunny Island told me to turn the switch on and then turn off the HWH via the fuse panel inside the trialer when not in use.
[/quote][font size="3"]I'm a bit confused. I thought from your previous post you had the red lighted switch inside the trailer on the wall. If so you don't have to use the breaker in the power panel at all. For daily on/off operation just turn off the lighted switch. When you store and drain the heater it's a good idea to turn off EITHER the outside switch or the circuit breaker just to remind yourself to refill the WH.
BTW, I measured the recovery time for my WH. I'll quote from my RPOD forum post:
Electric only recovery: 35 minutes
Gas plus electric recovery: 14 minutes
This was measured with 77 degree F cold water input and a resulting hot water temperature of 131F. The gas only recovery time was not measured, but would be around 23 minutes. Note that recovery time is dependent on may factors including cold water input temperature, how much warm water is left in the heater when you start recovering and, secondarily, the outside air temperature.
One of the benefits of the dual mode heater is recovering in half the time.
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Charlie, yes we have the red light switch inside our trailer and it would light up red when turned on but did not heat any water. You told us about the switch inside the HWH panel on the back right side of the trailer. I looked several times after reading this forum and did not see it. It was only after the third time of reviewing the forum that I again looked and discovered the switch under a piece of silver tape.
I had called SIRV where we purchased the trailer to make sure we had the switch you talked about. It was a little confusing to me as well about using the breaker but I asked Steve why the switch was in the panel on back of the trailer in the first place. I suggested it was due to owners leaving the inside switch on when no water was in the HWH tank and burning out the element, especially when new (your comment above)? That is when he made the comment that I did not have to turn off the outside switch (once on) to prevent burning up the element if no water was in the tank. Just flip the breaker off inside the trailer to make sure when restarting the HWH there is water inside. I know by bride has flipped the electric switch on several times (before checking to make sure there is water in the tank) because it is near the pump switch. Actually I thought we had burned up the element because it did not work and much relieved when the propane side heated water. Anyway, the plan going forward is to initially heat with propane for 15-20 minutes, then turn propane off and switch electric on to keep water hot. I have not checked temperatures of propane heated water vs electric heated water but another forum indicated propane heated water was hotter than electric heated water, but the electric mode of heating water would do a good job of keeping the propane heated water hot. Kinda confusing huh! Well now I read that LL is removing the outside switch due to customer confusion.
Regarding hot water recovery, we forgot to turn on the HWH last week in Florida (temp about 40) and I wanted to take a shower. I checked for any hot water and zero, flipped on the propane and had enough in 5 or so minutes to take a shower, I was very impressed. Now that the electric switch will work I will check this out. Way more info than folks want to know on this issue but we have had our trailer for almost a year now and still figuring out how things work!
Thanks for your comments!
Quote from: @montedtrotter1" source="/post/18791/thread" timestamp="1455795247Charlie, yes we have the red light switch inside our trailer and it would light up red when turned on but did not heat any water. You told us about the switch inside the HWH panel on the back right side of the trailer. I looked several times after reading this forum and did not see it. It was only after the third time of reviewing the forum that I again looked and discovered the switch under a piece of silver tape.
I had called SIRV where we purchased the trailer to make sure we had the switch you talked about. It was a little confusing to me as well about using the breaker but I asked Steve why the switch was in the panel on back of the trailer in the first place. I suggested it was due to owners leaving the inside switch on when no water was in the HWH tank and burning out the element, especially when new (your comment above)? That is when he made the comment that I did not have to turn off the outside switch (once on) to prevent burning up the element if no water was in the tank. Just flip the breaker off inside the trailer to make sure when restarting the HWH there is water inside. I know by bride has flipped the electric switch on several times (before checking to make sure there is water in the tank) because it is near the pump switch. Actually I thought we had burned up the element because it did not work and much relieved when the propane side heated water. Anyway, the plan going forward is to initially heat with propane for 15-20 minutes, then turn propane off and switch electric on to keep water hot. I have not checked temperatures of propane heated water vs electric heated water but another forum indicated propane heated water was hotter than electric heated water, but the electric mode of heating water would do a good job of keeping the propane heated water hot. Kinda confusing huh! Well now I read that LL is removing the outside switch due to customer confusion.
Regarding hot water recovery, we forgot to turn on the HWH last week in Florida (temp about 40) and I wanted to take a shower. I checked for any hot water and zero, flipped on the propane and had enough in 5 or so minutes to take a shower, I was very impressed. Now that the electric switch will work I will check this out. Way more info than folks want to know on this issue but we have had our trailer for almost a year now and still figuring out how things work!
Thanks for your comments!
[font size="3"]MonteD,
Sounds like you have a plan. Flipping either the outside or breaker off at season's end is just good practice for your peace of mind. As my memory ages I'm thinking I should do
both. ;) As for gas vs electric, the gas heater is about 50% more powerful than the electric, but they both heat to the same end temperature. Both thermostats are set to 130F. In practice the electric has a slight priority over the gas so the electric will maintain the temperature and the gas will not come on until the tank is well depleted. Most people probably just leave both on and never think about it. The gas will heat faster than electric alone, but using both will heat even faster. [/font]