We picked up our new Bearcat last Thursday, the pics are not the best but thought I'd share anyway (first attempt at posting pictures). We are really excited and can't wait to get it out in the woods for some serious glamping. This is our first TT.
Our dealer fixed us up with a dual 6 volt Trojan battery set up. Notice there is no side bolt on the trailer coupler, that will be the first mod I do. We drove the 100+ mile route home in torrential rain (gotta love the Pacific Northwest) and put her in storage. I picked up 2 tubs of Damp-Rid and dropped them of at the trailer and found water all over the bathroom floor all around the shower skylight and in the outside storage area in the slide-out. We left a message for warranty instructions this morning. Stuff happens
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Looks like I screwed up the pictures, I'll try again
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It is extremely disappointing that LL is still delivering campers with floor leaks. This has been going on for a long time. I thought that this was fixed with the new floor coverings.
David
That sucks about the water... any idea where it is coming in? Hopefully you can get the warranty work done somewhere close to home...
We also had water on the bathroom floor and from the wheel wells when we drove home. The dealer caulked the wheel wells. We now noticed that the plastic "sleeve?" That goes between the skylight and the shower is too big and puckers all around. We think that might be the problem. Sigh.
Joan
[quote source="/post/17155/thread" timestamp="1450202639" author="@rwc"]/Users/jayneecox/Documents/DSC02430.jpg[/quote][font size="3"]It looks like you have linked to a file in the Users directory on your local computer. Assuming you're using Windows, click on the ADD ATTACHMENTS button at the top of the screen and click ADD FILES. Browse to the file on your computer. Select the file and double click on OPEN. The Upload progress bar will show completion. Position the cursor where you want the picture in the post and click INSERT. The A small version of the picture should show up. Repeat for up to 5 total pictures. Also make sure each picture is under 1MB in size.
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Just pointing out that on rough roads you can easily get splash from the toilet that ends up on the bathroom floor. I'm sure you are getting other leaks but keep this in mind as well.
Anxiously awaiting the pictures ;)
I'm thinking about the Breacat 21 BHS so the water leaks are a concern. I thought the vinyl flooring would resolve this issue.
[quote timestamp="1450224895" source="/post/17163/thread" author="@whoofit"]Just pointing out that on rough roads you can easily get splash from the toilet that ends up on the bathroom floor. I'm sure you are getting other leaks but keep this in mind as well.[/quote]Good thought about the toilet. The skylight in the shower was dripping water (quite lot) , I'm not sure if theres a floor leak or not.
Charliem, I'm working off a Mac and it has me flustered. I'm not a computer person.
I'm dropping the trailer off at our dealer after Christmas, He stated they would get it fixed. They are over 100 miles away. I spoke to Dom from livinlite he said I should call a dealer much closer 30mi and see if they could get it in (they deal mainly with the campers). This is the same dealer when I was wanting to order a Bearcat didn't call me back for 2wks so I went else where. I made the call per Dom's instruction and was told the following; They loose money performing warranty work. Livinlite doesn't fully compensate them for the work performed, and since I didn't purchase the trailer through them if the job cost $500 and livinlite only paid out $300 I was on the hook for the remaining $200. I said No thank you.
I'm sure these issues will get worked out in due time, We're just glad we have the winter to get it fixed and that this didn't happen during the spring or summer.
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Nice rig. I see that my post about the interior of the Bearcat was right. Aluminum skinned wall and aluminum cabinet doors. Hopefully the water leak problem is a small fix. Sounds like your skylight might be leaking. Imwould get up the roof and check the seal and dicor lap sealant for cracks or missing spots.
Nice looking trailer! Good to see that you can still get the aluminum faced cabinets in the Bearcat line. Regarding the water leak on the floor, we had a little bit of that recently after we picked up our new trailer from the dealer (it rained all the way home on a 90 minute drive). So we called the dealer and they had us bring it back and they sealed the underside and wheel wells (they said that was covered under warranty). Hopefully that will take care of it. Also had them do a few other things while we were there... added MaxxAir vent covers over all the power vents and had them put side bolts in the coupler (see pics of that under our thread titled "additions pics of our 21BHS). Good luck and have fun camping!
Congratulations on your new Bearcat! We are in the market for a travel trailer, and really like the CampLite line, but are looking at the Bearcat because we love the aluminum cabinets.
It's a shame that you are having leaks. Overall, I think the few "fixes" for a new LivinLite are worth it because I haven't found anything as durable, lightweight, and as aesthetically-pleasing.
[quote source="/post/17157/thread" timestamp="1450206353" author="@david"]It is extremely disappointing that LL is still delivering campers with floor leaks. This has been going on for a long time. I thought that this was fixed with the new floor coverings.
David[/quote]
I wonder if the floor leaks are a result of capillary action between the "planks" of aluminum? If so, the floor coverings may trap moisture rather than prevent intrusion. Maybe a bead of sealant between each "plank" would stop the water intrusion.
[p]Well, the fundamental problem is that the aluminum floor "planks" are simply butted together when they are installed and no sealant is used. When going down a road with lots of water, it gets kicked up and forced between the small gaps between the planks. A continuous water impervious floor covering with an adhesive to hold it down should solve this, but apparently not.[/p][p]
[/p][p]It is not capillary action. I had at least a gallon or more of water on the floor of my 2013 unit after driving in heavy rain for several hours. I haven't done it yet, but I will seal around the wheel wells and all of the flooring joints that I can access from below. That should at least reduce it substantially.
As you note a better way would be to seal each plank as it is laid down, but that is rather labor intensive.
David[/p]
Nice looking Bearcat.
Thanks for posting the pictures! Good looking model! Please keep us updated on the leaks.
The local dealer I called to get a quote on the Bearcat 21 BHS told me they did not exists. He told me he even called the manufacturer. So I sent him the links that AmmoBob shared with us. Jeepers!
Where did you get yours?
[font size="3"]I too am confused. The decal proves it is a Bearcat; the interior shot looks like a 21RBS, the kitchen counter looks like the new type. But no indication of any 21 ft. Bearcats on the LL website. Also, no indication of the BHS version anywhere. The WH has moved to the side and something looks like a hood over the stove. What's that?
So what is available? Earth to LL, over.
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It also is 7' wide, and there is no 7' wide 21RBS anywhere on their website. The site is obviously out of date with their product line...
Edit: Actually it looks like they all are 7' wide, but have narrower axles. RWC's Bearcat has fender wells outside the trailer box, like our Bearcat, not like a Camplite...
I never noticed the wider axel. Does that provide more stability?
LL needs to get their new website online. It's a good thing they have an unique product! They are driving me and my local dealer crazy.
http://www.americanrvcompany.net/2015-Livin-Lite-Bearcat-13BHB-STK-4166-Off-Road-Automotive-Travel-Trailer-Oregon-Stock_p_502.html#
Look at this bearcat with the silver interior walls.
Can we get an options list?
[quote source="/post/17238/thread" timestamp="1450480772" author="@williamwallace"]The local dealer I called to get a quote on the Bearcat 21 BHS told me they did not exists. He told me he even called the manufacturer. So I sent him the links that AmmoBob shared with us. Jeepers!
Where did you get yours?[/quote]WilliamWallace We ordered our thru American Rv Company in Tigard OR.
Christianm stated the new website will avail first of the year.
[quote timestamp="1450484730" author="@charliem" source="/post/17239/thread"][font size="3"]I too am confused. The decal proves it is a Bearcat; the interior shot looks like a 21RBS, the kitchen counter looks like the new type. But no indication of any 21 ft. Bearcats on the LL website. Also, no indication of the BHS version anywhere. The WH has moved to the side and something looks like a hood over the stove. What's that?
So what is available? Earth to LL, over.
[/font][/quote]Thats a range fan with light.
Thanks for the clarification and I love this site. We would all be in the dark without you and AmmoBob uncovering this cool new addition to the LL lineup.
I wanted to install a hood over the stove and vent it through the wall. Anyone done that to a 21 rbs?? It would have to be a very low profile fan/light unit. We set off the smoke alarm too easily when the wife gets cooking up a fuss.
Yes, it would be nice to have it vent out the side. The hood that we just received with our new CL 21 BHS does not vent outside, so I'm not sure how much help it will be. Thinking that we'll eventually have to replace it with another fan and vent it out the side, but it would have been nice if it had come that way from the factory.
[quote timestamp="1450484730" author="@charliem" source="/post/17239/thread"][font size="3"]I too am confused. The decal proves it is a Bearcat; the interior shot looks like a 21RBS, the kitchen counter looks like the new type. But no indication of any 21 ft. Bearcats on the LL website. Also, no indication of the BHS version anywhere. The WH has moved to the side and something looks like a hood over the stove. What's that?
So what is available? Earth to LL, over.
[/font][/quote]Livin Lite, here! (Copy? Over? 10-4? )
I'm not actually sure what in the world is going on. I haven't been informed that we were no longer making BearCats, and I know that the website has been updated recently. Looks like there might have been some communication lines crossed somewhere :-)
Will check with our guys and see if I can come up with any answers!
Thanks,
Christian
I called American RV Company about their 21 foot Bearcat line of Livin' Lite campers. I spoke to Jeff and he explained these campers are a special product for his dealership. American RV Company has locations in California and Oregon. When they were expanding into Oregon there was another Livin' Lite dealer in the area which prevented them from offering the same products. So Livin' Lite expanded the Bearcat line to include the larger campers just for American RV Company. Subsequently the other Oregon dealer started selling motorized RVs exclusively so they dropped the Livin' Lite brand. So American RV Company now can sell any Livin' Lite products.
Jeff explained some interesting changes associated with the Bearcat models. The trailers use thicker aluminum frames (he thought it was 4" beams instead of the 3" beams), put diamond plating along the entire bottom edge of the trailer, lengthened the axle so the wheels are outside the camper, and increased the ground clearance by changing how the axles are fastened to the the frame.
Livin' Lite is also going to offer the milled aluminum cabinets in all of their models in the beginning of next year.
Jeff was very helpful and provided a lot of details on this unique product. If anyone has questions or is interested in their unique product, you should call him.
I'm just trying to figure out if I can drive out there, pickup the cool 21 BHS Bearcat, and drive back without missing too much work!
[font size="3"]Whaaaaat? LL is making a special line just for one dealer, yet they won't accept custom orders from customers? How crazy is that?
The pictures looked like a 21RBS layout. With the wider wheel track did they solve the interior wheel well problem under the dinette?
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Jeff recommend I call Livin Lite and/or work with my local dealer to get a Bearcat 21 BHS. So I am going to find out if it's possible for other dealers to get the Bearcat 21 BHS. I don't think it was an exclusive arrangement.
Quote from: @gbpack" timestamp="1450544813" source="/post/17252/threadYes, it would be nice to have it vent out the side. The hood that we just received with our new CL 21 BHS does not vent outside, so I'm not sure how much help it will be. Thinking that we'll eventually have to replace it with another fan and vent it out the side, but it would have been nice if it had come that way from the factory.
Damn I didn't check if it vented outside or not, just assumed a hood vent would. Seems a useless add-on if it doesn't.
WilliamWallace, Hope everything works out with your local dealer and glad to hear Jeff could help you out.
[quote source="/post/17264/thread" timestamp="1450715925" author="@christianm"][quote source="/post/17239/thread" timestamp="1450484730" author="@charliem"][font size="3"]I too am confused. The decal proves it is a Bearcat; the interior shot looks like a 21RBS, the kitchen counter looks like the new type. But no indication of any 21 ft. Bearcats on the LL website. Also, no indication of the BHS version anywhere. The WH has moved to the side and something looks like a hood over the stove. What's that?
So what is available? Earth to LL, over.
[/font][/quote]Livin Lite, here! (Copy? Over? 10-4? )
I'm not actually sure what in the world is going on. I haven't been informed that we were no longer making BearCats, and I know that the website has been updated recently. Looks like there might have been some communication lines crossed somewhere :-)
Will check with our guys and see if I can come up with any answers!
Thanks,
Christian [/quote]OK! Sorry for the delay in answer- here is what I was able to find out!
The Bearcat 21 BHS is not the website, because it is not available for regular order/production. The Bearcat 21 BHS was a limited-edition, special order; commissioned specifically by American RV in Oregon. Not sure how many were made, but it was very few and they are not currently available for reorder from the factory.
The Bearcat 21 BHS is just one of Bearcats floorplans, though. You can still purchase traditional Bearcat pop up, travel trailer or toy hauler floor plans through any Bearcat dealer.
Hope this helps!
Christian
[quote source="/post/17352/thread" timestamp="1451321387" author="@christianm"][quote source="/post/17264/thread" timestamp="1450715925" author="@christianm"]Livin Lite, here! (Copy? Over? 10-4? )
I'm not actually sure what in the world is going on. I haven't been informed that we were no longer making BearCats, and I know that the website has been updated recently. Looks like there might have been some communication lines crossed somewhere :-)
Will check with our guys and see if I can come up with any answers!
Thanks,
Christian [/quote]OK! Sorry for the delay in answer- here is what I was able to find out!
The Bearcat 21 BHS is not the website, because it is not available for regular order/production. The Bearcat 21 BHS was a limited-edition, special order; commissioned specifically by American RV in Oregon. Not sure how many were made, but it was very few and they are not currently available for reorder from the factory.
The Bearcat 21 BHS is just one of Bearcats floorplans, though. You can still purchase traditional Bearcat pop up, travel trailer or toy hauler floor plans through any Bearcat dealer.
Hope this helps!
Christian [/quote]
[quote source="/post/17352/thread" timestamp="1451321387" author="@christianm"][quote source="/post/17264/thread" timestamp="1450715925" author="@christianm"]Livin Lite, here! (Copy? Over? 10-4? )
I'm not actually sure what in the world is going on. I haven't been informed that we were no longer making BearCats, and I know that the website has been updated recently. Looks like there might have been some communication lines crossed somewhere :-)
Will check with our guys and see if I can come up with any answers!
Thanks,
Christian [/quote]OK! Sorry for the delay in answer- here is what I was able to find out!
The Bearcat 21 BHS is not the website, because it is not available for regular order/production. The Bearcat 21 BHS was a limited-edition, special order; commissioned specifically by American RV in Oregon. Not sure how many were made, but it was very few and they are not currently available for reorder from the factory.
The Bearcat 21 BHS is just one of Bearcats floorplans, though. You can still purchase traditional Bearcat pop up, travel trailer or toy hauler floor plans through any Bearcat dealer.
Hope this helps!
Christian [/quote]
So far... While out trailer is at the dealer being attended to heres what I find perplexing. I purchased 2 Dry-wave 1000 air driers and three 4lb tubs of Damp-Rid. After 4-5 days (raining) the Damp-Rid tubs where filled and the water drip ring all around the skylight were gone. After viewing/reading youtube and related articles I have come to the conclusion that my bathroom problem is condensation related. My dealer stated they will take apart inspect and reseal the sky light, look for any problems with the roof seal and work to find the leak issue in the slide area. They (dealer) had another customers livinlite trailer with the same bathroom problems, water pooling on the floor from the water ring formed all around the skylight. How much condensation do you get in your trailers? This is to say the least, ridiculous.
[quote source="/post/17832/thread" timestamp="1453051785" author="@rwc"]So far... While out trailer is at the dealer being attended to heres what I find perplexing. I purchased 2 Dry-wave 1000 air driers and three 4lb tubs of Damp-Rid. After 4-5 days (raining) the Damp-Rid tubs where filled and the water drip ring all around the skylight were gone. After viewing/reading youtube and related articles I have come to the conclusion that my bathroom problem is condensation related. My dealer stated they will take apart inspect and reseal the sky light, look for any problems with the roof seal and work to find the leak issue in the slide area. They (dealer) had another customers livinlite trailer with the same bathroom problems, water pooling on the floor from the water ring formed all around the skylight. How much condensation do you get in your trailers? This is to say the least, ridiculous.[/quote]I get no condensation in the bathroom, although I don't have a skylight. There are some here that have the skylight and it would be interesting to see if they have this issue.
Perhaps you have another source of moisture causing your humidity to be so high.
Glad I saw this thread... went out and checked ours today, and we have lots of condensation, and it has been dripping onto the carpet tiles, and those carpet tiles are now all moldy. Will need to remove them. I opened up the side vents (which are on all the toyhaulers for venting any fuel fumes), cracked open the ceiling fans, and cracked open the side window to get some airflow in there which will hopefully help.
Bill, I would have replied sooner but I've been crying in my beer with the Seahawks loss to Carolina. Glad this caught your attention. So the question is, Why all the condensation?
[font face="comic sans ms" size="3"]I have a 21RBS with a skylight and no condensation problems, ever. Do both RWC and Billmoore live in the Northwest?? Maybe this is an environmentally induced problem? Roof leaks can be very hard to find, because of capillary action. You can try tilting the trailer nose up or nose down and observing the results, after a good rain. Also putting newspaper on the floor to find where a water trail starts. [/font]
[quote timestamp="1453066164" author="@james" source="/post/17837/thread"][font face="comic sans ms" size="3"]I have a 21RBS with a skylight and no condensation problems, ever. Do both RWC and Billmoore live in the Northwest?? Maybe this is an environmentally induced problem? Roof leaks can be very hard to find, because of capillary action. You can try tilting the trailer nose up or nose down and observing the results, after a good rain. Also putting newspaper on the floor to find where a water trail starts. [/font][/quote]Does the rear door on the toy haulers seal properly? I wonder if even a small amount of moisture is getting inside the seal and then increasing the humidity a lot. This seems like an awful lot of condensation.
[quote source="/post/17837/thread" timestamp="1453066164" author="@james"][font face="comic sans ms" size="3"]I have a 21RBS with a skylight and no condensation problems, ever. Do both RWC and Billmoore live in the Northwest?? Maybe this is an environmentally induced problem? Roof leaks can be very hard to find, because of capillary action. You can try tilting the trailer nose up or nose down and observing the results, after a good rain. Also putting newspaper on the floor to find where a water trail starts. [/font][/quote]We both live in WA.
Yeah we both live in western WA where it rains 4 out of 5 days from Nov 1 to April 1. The few days that aren't rainy usually have dramatic temperature swings which contribute to condensation.
Moss and mold grow everywhere here...
Quote from: @djsamuel" source="/post/17838/thread" timestamp="1453067361Does the rear door on the toy haulers seal properly? I wonder if even a small amount of moisture is getting inside the seal and then increasing the humidity a lot. This seems like an awful lot of condensation.
My rear door has zero moisture around it most of the moisture is in the kitchen and bath area which are up against the uninsulated front storage compartment. Storage area is dry. Inside kitchen cabinets are dry.
I could find every aluminum stud in the wall and ceiling in the front half of the trailer by the beads of condensation along them. I'm 99.9% sure this is not a roof leak.
[quote source="/post/17836/thread" timestamp="1453066142" author="@rwc"]Bill, I would have replied sooner but I've been crying in my beer with the Seahawks loss to Carolina. Glad this caught your attention. So the question is, Why all the condensation? [/quote]Yeah that game sucked!
My guess is the combination of high humidity and the short spells we get where the temps drop into the low 20's at night. I haven't gone in the trailer to see this, but I know when my truck is parked outside during one of those quick temp drops, the next morning there will be frost on the inside of my windshield. I suspect frost is forming inside on all of the conductive metal surfaces and then melting when it warms up the next day...
[quote source="/post/17842/thread" author="@billmoore" timestamp="1453072724"][quote timestamp="1453066142" author="@rwc" source="/post/17836/thread"]Bill, I would have replied sooner but I've been crying in my beer with the Seahawks loss to Carolina. Glad this caught your attention. So the question is, Why all the condensation? [/quote]Yeah that game sucked!
My guess is the combination of high humidity and the short spells we get where the temps drop into the low 20's at night. I haven't gone in the trailer to see this, but I know when my truck is parked outside during one of those quick temp drops, the next morning there will be frost on the inside of my windshield. I suspect frost is forming inside on all of the conductive metal surfaces and then melting when it warms up the next day...
[/quote]That's exactly what's happening, but it still requires moisture to be inside in the first place. et rid of the moisture, nothing to condense.
You still need to seal the doors and windows, etc. and then get the moisture out. We put a dehumidifier in the trailer and run it from time to time while it is sitting idle, as we know the door doesn't have a tight seal.
And, of course, as noted in recent threads, check to make sure you (generic, not Bill specifically) don't have the windows actually locked slightly open.
Yeah I think I'll try the dehumidifier, and run it every couple of weeks.
I second the idea of a dehumidifier. Down here in humid Texas summers I found that I have to keep one running 24x7 while my 21rbs is in storage. I also have one also running 24x7 for my Mustang, which is stored at another garage, which only is used once a month. Mold just loves the humidity in the summers and when we do get temps to drop at this time of year, condensation is also a problem.
I have both connected to a drain hose. The one in the RV drains to the shower drain with the drain cover removed.